Caledonian Sleeper Class 92's

[TimboM]

hopefully dbc dont end up getting there hands on it

 

[Far north 37]

I think if DBC need further hire-ins and if available it'll be unmodified 92032 or 92044 they loan them. Hopefully!

(92032 was the one they've been loaning them recently.)

sounds like dbc are barely hanging on in there with tunnel work think there flagship train from china to barking must be just about all the work they have left really and with the attention there paying to there class 92s makes you wonder how much interest they have left.

 

[Far north 37]

i mean if db cargo cant get a fleet of what would they need 3 locos for tunnel work? when they had a fleet running all there main freight on the wcml till not that long ago seems like they gave lost interest in the class totally.

 

[TimboM]

sounds like dbc are barely hanging on in there with tunnel work think there flagship train from china to barking must be just about all the work they have left really and with the attention there paying to there class 92s makes you wonder how much interest they have left.

AFAIK the China train was a one-off special/publicity stunt to try and generate interest, but so far doesn't appear to have materialised into any regular work.

They do have some other regular flows - e.g. Ford parts to Dagenham, bottled water (Evian I think), steel that goes to/from Scunthorpe I believe. These run most days I think.

i mean if db cargo cant get a fleet of what would they need 3 locos for tunnel work? when they had a fleet running all there main freight on the wcml till not that long ago seems like they gave lost interest in the class totally.

They're definitely not fans and if it weren't for the fact they're the only loco they have that can work the tunnel they'd all have been stored/shipped abroad by now.

The 6 they do have left for the tunnel work are struggling I think it's safe to say. They can now only run on tunnel/HS1 (i.e. not on Network Rail anywhere) and their 3rd rail capabilities have been removed (a lot don't even have shoes on anymore). 2 (036/042) have been in Crewe IEMD for several weeks and the other 4 seem to be in and out of there a fair bit at the moment too. They were down to 1 fully working one on a particular day a few weeks back.

Reliability has always been an issue with 92s, but with DB not investing the money in their fleet like GBRf have done with theirs I can only see the reliability issues getting worse.

Meanwhile, GBRf are going in the other direction with 6 now having had the mods (010/014/018/023/028/033), 2 more currently in Brush (043/038), 2 more to go (032/044), plus 2 they're reinstating from long-term store (006/020). All the effort/expense appears to be doing the trick and if it keeps going that way GBRf will have a fleet of a dozen reliable (comparatively at least!) 92s still with the ability to work the tunnel, 3rd rail and UK 25kv.

If DB don't address the slide soon (and I'm not sure they have the funds or inclination) I wouldn't be surprised in time if GBRf took over the tunnel work either directly or via longer-term high arrangements with DBC.

Many thought GBRf were mad for putting the faith and money they have done into the 92s, but I think they knew what they were doing. The 92s are the only UK loco that can work the tunnel/HS1 and also soon to be the only one that can work the Caley Sleeper (and DB's 92s aren't able to operate that). So if you get yourself a reasonable number of them in good working order (and whilst your only competitors' are in demise) you know you've got a few key contracts pretty much sewn up, with the opportunity to win more.

 

[BRX]

I believe a second China/London train has run. Not much info around as to how regular it will become.

DB do have the daily bottled water train between France and Daventry, and the daily Scunthorpe steel train which also runs to france. There's a daily(ish) train between Ditton and Germany carrying aluminium and a weekly (I think) train between France and Barry. These are the ones that still use the "classic" route via south london (hence I keep up to date with whetherthey are running), but there are several others which now use the HS1 route.

So (although the tunnel is used to nowhere near its potential capacity for freight) the china/barking train certainly isn't their only tunnel work remaining. They need to move several trains a day through the tunnel in each direction as well as several back and forth on HS1, I assume using 92s. Some of the trains that run via south london used to be operated with 92s quite often but none are now. I'd certainly be happy to see GBRF take over the Daventry water train for example and put a 92 on it! Seems stupid to have a train that runs daily, under the wires for its whole route, being diesel hauled.

 

[TimboM]

I believe a second China/London train has run. Not much info around as to how regular it will become.

DB do have the daily bottled water train between France and Daventry, and the daily Scunthorpe steel train which also runs to france. There's a daily(ish) train between Ditton and Germany carrying aluminium and a weekly (I think) train between France and Barry. These are the ones that still use the "classic" route via south london (hence I keep up to date with whetherthey are running), but there are several others which now use the HS1 route.

So (although the tunnel is used to nowhere near its potential capacity for freight) the china/barking train certainly isn't their only tunnel work remaining. They need to move several trains a day through the tunnel in each direction as well as several back and forth on HS1, I assume using 92s. Some of the trains that run via south london used to be operated with 92s quite often but none are now. I'd certainly be happy to see GBRF take over the Daventry water train for example and put a 92 on it! Seems stupid to have a train that runs daily, under the wires for its whole route, being diesel hauled.

Interesting info, thanks.

Yes - it'll be 92s (if operated by DB UK/GBRf) bringing stuff through the tunnel as I believe that's the only UK loco that can. Quite a few (like the water train I believe and the china clays of course) need 2x 92s due to their weight and the 1 in 40 climb out of the tunnel at the UK end. Hence when 3 of the 6 DB ones are in Crewe depot it can get a bit challenging.

[There's a GBRf 92 light loco move heading your way right now by the way... http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01671/2017/08/03/advanced - 92044 and/or 92028]

 

[BRX]

Yup, it just passed now. 028 on its own.

 

[TimboM]

Yup, it just passed now. 028 on its own.

Shoes down, back on the juice then...

 

[leomartin125]

I believe a second China/London train has run. Not much info around as to how regular it will become.

DB do have the daily bottled water train between France and Daventry, and the daily Scunthorpe steel train which also runs to france. There's a daily(ish) train between Ditton and Germany carrying aluminium and a weekly (I think) train between France and Barry. These are the ones that still use the "classic" route via south london (hence I keep up to date with whetherthey are running), but there are several others which now use the HS1 route.

So (although the tunnel is used to nowhere near its potential capacity for freight) the china/barking train certainly isn't their only tunnel work remaining. They need to move several trains a day through the tunnel in each direction as well as several back and forth on HS1, I assume using 92s. Some of the trains that run via south london used to be operated with 92s quite often but none are now. I'd certainly be happy to see GBRF take over the Daventry water train for example and put a 92 on it! Seems stupid to have a train that runs daily, under the wires for its whole route, being diesel hauled.

I remember, many moons ago, heading up to Cheddington and seeing the Wembley to Daventry train run by a DB 92 (Beethoven was a regular) on the way up, carrying cargowaggons to Daventry. The loco would drop off the load and the driver would work the train light engine back to Wembley, so would mean 2 x 92's on that working alone passing Cheddington. Dollands Moor - Scunthorpe also used to be DB 92 operated, and was at one point the only electric freight train on the ECML (minus the 325) and was even operated sometimes by a 90. Would be good to see these services operated by GBRf, and to see 92's back in regular service, as they should be, not just sitting around Dollands Moor and Coquelles waiting for their ill-fate.

Just found footage I caught of the light engine passing Cheddington heading home. Operated by DB Cargo Class 92003 'Beethoven':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgXCp82dz34

 

[Mag_seven]

2 (036/042) have been in Crewe IEMD for several weeks and the other 4 seem to be in and out of there a fair bit at the moment too.

036 + 042 viewed at Tamworth a couple of minutes ago being dragged southbound by 90018

 

[TimboM]

036 + 042 viewed at Tamworth a couple of minutes ago being dragged southbound by 90018

Welcome news for DB. They were needing to spot hire a GBRf one again last night (044) as required 2x2 locos for workings and only had 3.

 

[TimboM]

Been reported* that John Smith (GBRf MD) yesterday said they're planning on reinstating a further two of their remaining four stored 92s. i.e. two out of 92021/040/045/046 (in addition to 006 and 020 which are already in progress).
The remaining two are too far gone apparently. No indications as to which two are viable and which two aren't though.

Eyes on more tunnel traffic as DB's 92 fleet continues to falter I wonder?

021/040 to finally be repatriated (either to be fixed up or for spares)?

(*By RAIL/Richard Clinnick)

 

[BRX]

92010 on the tanks earlier this evening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0C29TQDRY

 

[dmncf]

92010 on the tanks earlier this evening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0C29TQDRY

You've got a good vantage point. Is that train this service or a different one?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H15822/2017/08/04/advanced

I'm not sure if that service ran or not - Realtime Trains doesn't give any real time information for it.

 

[BRX]

You've got a good vantage point. Is that train this service or a different one?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H15822/2017/08/04/advanced

I'm not sure if that service ran or not - Realtime Trains doesn't give any real time information for it.

No, although that path right through from Mossend is always in there, what usually happens is that it runs in two legs, one to Wembley and then another from there to Dollands Moor. The latter leg was this path:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H14676/2017/08/04/advanced

 

[gsnedders]

Been reported* that John Smith (GBRf MD) yesterday said they're planning on reinstating a further two of their remaining four stored 92s. i.e. two out of 92021/040/045/046 (in addition to 006 and 020 which are already in progress).
The remaining two are too far gone apparently. No indications as to which two are viable and which two aren't though.

Are we sure two are too far gone, rather than there being enough good between the four to make two?

 

[TimboM]

92010 on the tanks earlier this evening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0C29TQDRY

Just had a look - nice vid!

 

[TimboM]

Are we sure two are too far gone, rather than there being enough good between the four to make two?

I don't know, but probably a case of the latter to at least some extent. I believe the quote was along the lines of "two of them are too derelict..." That said, I'm sure Brush could get pretty much anything going if there was a blank cheque, but of course there isn't in the real world.

There will probably be constant circulation of parts and the stored ones (especially those at Loughborough) will have been plundered for spares for the others no doubt. The two candidates in Loughborough (045/046) have no bogies for example - presumably they've been switched in for other locos in the merry-go-round of refurbishment and there's a couple of spare sets somewhere!?

Also, I'm not sure whether the two in Loughborough benefit any more from being on site and having the occasional bit of TLC (046 has a decent-sized tarpaulin over a fair bit of it for example) compared to the two in France in open storage; but then the two in France have probably been less susceptible to being spares donors and per the photos below appear reasonably well covered.

All were stored at the same time (April 2001) so no clues there. I think 045/046 as EPS locos had pretty low mileage, but again that doesn't count for too much if your bogies and half your components are currently running round the country on/in another loco...!

The only possible clue is the most recent photos of 92021/040 I can find (albeit they're from 2012!) showing them stored at Coquelles with a decent tarpaulin on. These pics show them there in a line consisting of 92020-92040-92006-92021-92023-92033-92018. Most/all of them would've been in store for already for 11+ years at that point.

The latter three (023/033/018) were of course reinstated in the "first wave" and are now fully-modified Sleeper locos. 92020/006 are being returned to service, so perhaps 021/040 are the other two if they've been kept in a reasonable state in Coquelles - compared to the 'car-park twins' at Loughborough (https://flic.kr/p/C1DbKL - not mine).

Coquelles Stored 92s row Sept 2012 (photos courtesy "The Guiness King"):
https://flic.kr/p/ddiApp 020/040
https://flic.kr/p/ddiyNp 040/006/021
https://flic.kr/p/ddixGy 021/023
https://flic.kr/p/ddiveQ 021/023/033
https://flic.kr/p/ddiwBN 023/033/018
https://flic.kr/p/dditTQ 033/018

 

[railhead56]

Been reported* that John Smith (GBRf MD) yesterday said they're planning on reinstating a further two of their remaining four stored 92s. i.e. two out of 92021/040/045/046 (in addition to 006 and 020 which are already in progress).
The remaining two are too far gone apparently. No indications as to which two are viable and which two aren't though.

Eyes on more tunnel traffic as DB's 92 fleet continues to falter I wonder?

021/040 to finally be repatriated (either to be fixed up or for spares)?

(*By RAIL/Richard Clinnick)

I understand that EPS sold 020, 021,032,040 & 044 to Eurotunnel in 2007 who had them all restored in Coquelles by Brush. No such luck for 045 & 046 but maybe that gives us a clue to condition.

 

[Far north 37]

92028 and 92032 parked up at willesden tmd also two db 92s coupled up to an unidentified class 90 in wembley yard

 

[alexf380]

92014 shall spend the weekend enjoying the Edinburgh Festival. Currently breathed in the centre siding at Waverley station.

 

[dmncf]

No, although that path right through from Mossend is always in there, what usually happens is that it runs in two legs, one to Wembley and then another from there to Dollands Moor. The latter leg was this path:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H14676/2017/08/04/advanced

Thanks for he info, BRX. I'll look out for it on forthcoming Fridays.

 

[TimboM]

92028 and 92032 parked up at willesden tmd also two db 92s coupled up to an unidentified class 90 in wembley yard

That's 90018 + 92036 (Triple Grey/EWS Sticker) + 92042 (DB Red)

The two 92s were released from Crewe IEMD yesterday (Fri) after prolonged stays for maintenance repairs and were taken to Wembley by 90018 (on 0A06). They'll be awaiting onward transfer to Dollands Moor.


...and so you got to see 028 at last!

 

[Rob T]

I understand that EPS sold 020, 021,032,040 & 044 to Eurotunnel in 2007 who had them all restored in Coquelles by Brush. No such luck for 045 & 046 but maybe that gives us a clue to condition.

Just to clarify the position of the seven ex EPS Class 92s. All were withdrawn from service in 4/2001.

The first (best) five were purchased in 2/2007 from EPS and these were 92020/021/032/040/044. Of these only 92032/044 were ever returned to service at Coquelles (by the end of 2009).

92020/021/040 spent time in store at Loughborough and Cheriton before arriving at Coquelles in, I believe, 09/2011.

92020 subsequently moved back to Loughborough in 10/2014 and is only now being prepared for a return to service.

At present 92021/040 still remain at Coquelles in store, but are almost certainly the best two of the remaining four, although they are likely to be short of a few parts.

The remaining two, 92045/046 were purchased a little bit later in 11/2007, which, as you say, probably gives a good clue as to their relative condition. They then moved to Loughborough in 7/2008 where they have remained ever since - and are believed to be extensively robbed.

 

[railhead56]

Just to clarify the position of the seven ex EPS Class 92s. All were withdrawn from service in 4/2001.

The first (best) five were purchased in 2/2007 from EPS and these were 92020/021/032/040/044. Of these only 92032/044 were ever returned to service at Coquelles (by the end of 2009).

92020/021/040 spent time in store at Loughborough and Cheriton before arriving at Coquelles in, I believe, 09/2011.

92020 subsequently moved back to Loughborough in 10/2014 and is only now being prepared for a return to service.

At present 92021/040 still remain at Coquelles in store, but are almost certainly the best two of the remaining four, although they are likely to be short of a few parts.

The remaining two, 92045/046 were purchased a little bit later in 11/2007, which, as you say, probably gives a good clue as to their relative condition. They then moved to Loughborough in 7/2008 where they have remained ever since - and are believed to be extensively robbed.

That is very helpful. I have been searching for that info for ages! Thanks.

 

[Far north 37]

That's 90018 + 92036 (Triple Grey/EWS Sticker) + 92042 (DB Red)

The two 92s were released from Crewe IEMD yesterday (Fri) after prolonged stays for maintenance repairs and were taken to Wembley by 90018 (on 0A06). They'll be awaiting onward transfer to Dollands Moor.


...and so you got to see 028 at last!

yeah finally got it haha would of been a good photo if i had known they would of been there.

 

[TimboM]

Just to clarify the position of the seven ex EPS Class 92s. All were withdrawn from service in 4/2001...

...At present 92021/040 still remain at Coquelles in store, but are almost certainly the best two of the remaining four, although they are likely to be short of a few parts.

The remaining two, 92045/046 were purchased a little bit later in 11/2007, which, as you say, probably gives a good clue as to their relative condition. They then moved to Loughborough in 7/2008 where they have remained ever since - and are believed to be extensively robbed.

That is very helpful. I have been searching for that info for ages! Thanks.

Second that, really helpful, thanks Rob T.

I think you're right on which are in the better condition - can't imagine the two in Loughborough after they've finished overhauling/modifying/reinstating 12 other 92s there will have very much left in them at all!

One interesting thing I did notice (and wonder if anyone has an explanation for) - the 9 ex-SNCF 92s had (unsurprisingly!) SNCF cab-side logos on originally, whereas the ex-EPS ones in the majority of cases didn't.
(e.g. 046 [and 044] at Crewe IEMD when brand new https://flic.kr/p/o8qhdi (not mine) - some of the "EPS 7" did have reflective EPS cab-side logos added (e.g. 040 https://flic.kr/p/bzT6Se - not mine) not sure they all got these in the end and either way they were subsequently removed presumably once Nightstar was no more.)

92020 "Milton", though, has a small SNCF logo and a small Railfreight distribution logo - and would appear to have had this from new (or thereabouts). Given that it was in neither of these 'pools' was this because at some point if was a 'shared' loco, or some publicity-type thing to show the cross-channel collaboration of SNCF/BR? It was the first one handed over to EPS and used for the publicity shots at Waterloo on 01/02/95 so guessing the latter may be the reason.

92020 with both logos: https://flic.kr/p/f6VeWx (not mine)

They're actually still on, albeit very faded, as can be seen here in the latest pic of 92020 at Brush https://flic.kr/p/TLzSRL (again not mine)

Thanks in advance for any info on this one.

[Also found some info indicating the first 5x EPS locos bought by Eurotunnel in Feb 2007 were acquired for £2m, i.e. <10% of what they'd cost to build after adjusting for inflation). They were also still at Crewe in Nov 2007 (or at least 020 was) - so must've taken a little while for them to be moved to Loughborough by their new owners.]

 

[TimboM]

They then moved to Loughborough in 7/2008 where they have remained ever since - and are believed to be extensively robbed.

...photo of 92045 leaving Crewe IEMD via lorry in July 2008 (not fit enough to travel by rail even then perhaps? or just cheaper?) https://flic.kr/p/9BMJLn (not mine)

 

[BRX]

That's 90018 + 92036 (Triple Grey/EWS Sticker) + 92042 (DB Red)

The two 92s were released from Crewe IEMD yesterday (Fri) after prolonged stays for maintenance repairs and were taken to Wembley by 90018 (on 0A06). They'll be awaiting onward transfer to Dollands Moor.

Just saw these on their way to Dollands now, I think.

 

[TimboM]

Just saw these on their way to Dollands now, I think.

Will have been - they're on this (0B57 Wembley EFOC - Dollands Moor Loco Holding Sidings) behind a very recently painted DB Red 66018:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H13069/2017/08/06/advanced

Need to go for their TVM (in cab signalling) to be recertified at Eurotunnel in France next, then they should be able to re-join the fray and maybe reduce the need for DB to keep hiring GBRf's 92s (for now at least).