Caledonian Sleeper Class 92's

[BRX]

If the 92s are so problematic/temperamental then why would anyone abroad want to buy them? Can they fix them up more cheaply than we can, or something?

 

[TimboM]

What's this then Tim?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O15244/2017/07/27/advanced

90045 going back to F/liner as needs an exam. Think it'll stop at Basford Hall and not the Holding Sidings.

There's a path in this afternoon (0Z91) for the replacement going the other way. [There's another pair of Willesden/Crewe light loco paths too, but don't think they'll be used now.]

 

[leomartin125]

90045 going back to F/liner as needs an exam. Think it'll stop at Basford Hall and not the Holding Sidings.

There's a path in this afternoon (0Z91) for the replacement going the other way. [There's another pair of Willesden/Crewe light loco paths too, but don't think they'll be used now.]

What's the returning loco? Another 90?

 

[SC318250]

Suspect it will be 90049 which is spare at Bassford Hall

90048/16 also on exam at moment so could be one of them

 

[TimboM]

What's the returning loco? Another 90?

Yes, almost certainly... There's no 92s (or anything else really) at Crewe currently that it could be. 3x 92s are in Scotland (014/018/023), 4 are at Wembley/Willesden (010/028/032/033), 1 is at Dollands Moor (044) and the rest in Loughborough (038/043 and 006/020 if we're including them yet).

They swap the 90s over quite regularly - been doing it a lot recently. Seems F/liner keep giving them locos that aren't that long away from their exams. 90045 only went on hire to GBRf 10 days ago.

That said, I assume it's just the way things fall sometimes and I guess GBRf get what they're given.

Think 90049 is the most likely candidate - 016 and 048 are also at Crewe Basford Hall, although both showing as receiving attention of some description as of yesterday late pm.

 

[TimboM]

Suspect it will be 90049 which is spare at Bassford Hall

90048/16 also on exam at moment so could be one of them

Snap

 

[TimboM]

I know it's not the done thing to talk about DB 92s on here , but reports elsewhere state that 92012 is for sale in Romania, while 92003 and 92026 are expected to be used for spares. hock:

The odd post is OK to remind us all what a fine job GBRf/Brush are doing with their 92s juxtaposed to "how not to do it" by DB Cargo...!

When 92003/022/026 were exported earlier this year, I understand that the intention was always for at least 022/026 to be spares donors. Apparently Crewe IEMD stripped most of what they could from 022 before it went over
92003 and 026 were returned to 'working order' before they went back, but expect that was only to a fashion - certainly not a c.6 month GBRf/Brush super-overhaul job.

Seems like they've all gone the way of spares (perhaps not surprising if DB Bulgaria couldn't actually find any on 92022 when it arrived!).

If the 92s are so problematic/temperamental then why would anyone abroad want to buy them? Can they fix them up more cheaply than we can, or something?

First and foremost (whilst all part of the same group) DB Bulgaria and DB Romania are getting 5MW Co-Co freight locos for (I expect) free. Even if they're not mega-reliable they're a lot better than nothing and most likely a more feasible option than buying new.

I have no idea of Eastern European railway operations (I'm sure others will) but there may also be a greater tolerance to failures. In the UK, when the 92s failed on the WCML on a 2-track section there we knock-on passenger delays and much gnashing of teeth. Perhaps in Bulgaria/Romania there's less of an issue and/or hoo-ha when one breaks down.

I'm also not sure if the infrastructure and what they're used for is more suited. The 92s away from the Tunnel in the UK had issues with fluctuating overhead power supplies on the WCML and also 'failures' would arise from DB using them to haul trains 25% above their official haulage limit up Beattock/Shap etc. and then wonder why the Traction Motors fried and they ended up sitting down half way up the bank to cool down with Virgins et al stacking up behind them...

Assuming they're also used regularly and reasonably well-maintained may also help.

Compare this to the UK where there's potentially much more scrutiny and impact of breakdowns (e.g. on other services/fines etc.), and a plentiful alternative in the shape of the 66s for the work 92s ended up doing and the 92s rapidly fell out of favour (for DB at least).

 

[TimboM]

90045 going back to F/liner as needs an exam. Think it'll stop at Basford Hall and not the Holding Sidings.

There's a path in this afternoon (0Z91) for the replacement going the other way. [There's another pair of Willesden/Crewe light loco paths too, but don't think they'll be used now.]

Slightly odd, but 90045 got to Basford Hall junction at c.10:30, but then it's gone through Crewe station and headed up the Chester line about as far as the Heritage Centre then headed back in the other way - not sure if this is just to get it coming into Basford Hall in the right direction?

 

[Mag_seven]

Suspect it will be 90049 which is spare at Bassford Hall

90048/16 also on exam at moment so could be one of them

Confirmed as 90049 as viewed from a southbound pendo at Rugby.

 

[TimboM]

Confirmed as 90049 as viewed from a southbound pendo at Rugby.

Doesn't look like it's getting pressed straight into service tonight, though. Joined it's tatty stable-mate 90047 at Willesden.

Looking like a full-house of CS 92s tonight:

92033 and 92010 have just gone into Euston so lined up for 1S25 and 1S26 tonight.
92014 in Edinburgh poised for 1M16
92018/023 at Polmadie for 1M11 and 1C11/1B26

Last time it was all 92s and all in the Sleeper livery was night of 8th June I think...

 

[BRX]

010 and 028 have just passed me, on their way to Dollands Moor.

 

[railhead56]

010 and 028 have just passed me, on their way to Dollands Moor.

Is that the first visit by a refurbished 92 to Dollands Moor? Will they be taking china clay through the tunnel tonight? Or just my wishful thinking!

 

[BRX]

Is that the first visit by a refurbished 92 to Dollands Moor? Will they be taking china clay through the tunnel tonight? Or just my wishful thinking!

I don't think it's the first time a refurbished one's been down there, but yes they might be going for the China Clay.

 

[TimboM]

Is that the first visit by a refurbished 92 to Dollands Moor? Will they be taking china clay through the tunnel tonight? Or just my wishful thinking!

I can't see any other reason 2x 92s are being sent down to D Moor on a Tuesday afternoon other than because the China Clay working is running tonight.

I don't think it's the first time a refurbished one's been down there, but yes they might be going for the China Clay.

I'm pretty certain it's the first time anything other than 92032 and 92044 have worked the China Clay tanks through the tunnel since GBRf took over the contract at the start of the year.
Also been a long, long time AFAIK since a sleeper-livery loco was down there - not sure one's been there since they returned to the Sleeper in earnest (i.e. post mods). I may be wrong...
92028 certainly hasn't been near the tunnel for over 2 years!

92032 has been (and still is) showing as "X" on TOPS (eXam or repair at depot) for the last week at Willesden, so presumably unavailable.

92044 is already at Dollands Moor - will be interesting to see which two bring the tanks through the tunnel and which one takes it on from there north (with the help of the 66 for the first leg).
Sending two down suggests either 92044 has an issue, is on-hire to DB, or they're wanting some insurance (or something else!).

All main sleeper runs are reported as 92-operated tonight too (1S25: 92033 / 1S26: 92018 / 1M11: 92023 / 1M16: 92014) so looking like a busy night for the GBRf 92s.

 

[BRX]

I've definitely seen CS livery 92s going to and from Dollands before but yes you might be right, not post mods.

As it happens shortly after that pair went past a DB 92 came the other direction... not under its own power of course and being towed by a 67.

 

[TimboM]

I've definitely seen CS livery 92s going to and from Dollands before but yes you might be right, not post mods.

As it happens shortly after that pair went past a DB 92 came the other direction... not under its own power of course and being towed by a 67.

Reported as 92015 (the DB Red London-Yiwu special branded one) - although info is it was hauled to Wembley on 0B34 by 66047 rather than a 67 (although that could be wrong).

Now reported as on its way to Crewe IEMD on 0K06 hauled by 90035 with 66095 on the rear.

92036 and 042 already at Crewe and have been for a while, so if a 3rd one is joining them my theory that one of the three GBRf 92s at D Moor this pm is on-hire to DB is looking more plausible. That DB 92 fleet isn't looking too healthy

 

[Far north 37]

Reported as 92015 (the DB Red London-Yiwu special branded one) - although info is it was hauled to Wembley on 0B34 by 66047 rather than a 67 (although that could be wrong).

Now reported as on its way to Crewe IEMD on 0K06 with 90035 and 66095 (suspect the 66 is hauling).

92036 and 042 already at Crewe and have been for a while, so if a 3rd one is joining them my theory that one of the three GBRf 92s at D Moor this pm is on-hire to DB is looking more plausible. That DB 92 fleet isn't looking too healthy

seems that db are more than happy to hire in from gbrf than have there own locos running

 

[TimboM]

seems that db are more than happy to hire in from gbrf than have there own locos running

Not sure how happy they are about it - but it's a necessity when GBRf's are working and theirs aren't!

In the short-term I suspect it's also cheaper than properly sorting out their own fleet, but then short-termism is what's got DB into this state in the first place (vs a more strategic view from GBRf investing in getting theirs in decent order).

 

[Far north 37]

Not sure how happy they are about it - but it's a necessity when GBRf's are working and theirs aren't!

In the short-term I suspect it's also cheaper than properly sorting out their own fleet, but then short-termism is what's got DB into this state in the first place (vs a more strategic view from GBRf investing in getting theirs in decent order).

from what ive seen recently dbc are retrying to invent there buisness and have even being advertising for drivers again looks like with them not looking to invest in heavy haul locos maybe looking to break more into the intermodal side possibly only a thought though.

 

[TimboM]

from what ive seen recently dbc are retrying to invent there buisness and have even being advertising for drivers again looks like with them not looking to invest in heavy haul locos maybe looking to break more into the intermodal side possibly only a thought though.

Potentially, but if they're going to continue to serve cross-channel work running through the tunnel they need some 92s (in working order) - or something else tunnel-certified. Or one way or another does all that traffic end up with GBRf at some point and DB focus their efforts elsewhere as you suggest...?

 

[TimboM]

Some delays/differences with the China Clay run today - not sure if planned or not (I'm assuming the delays weren't at least...!)

Set off 36 Early from Dollands Moor, presumably with the 66 leading (66712) and arrived in the Tonbridge area 30 Early. However, it then lost 104 minutes - passing Tonbridge 74 Late, then lost further time and was 95 Late by Sevenoaks. Don't have a reason for this delay as yet.

The 'usual' loco swap at Wembley has then been skipped (not sure if this was planned or due to the late running, although that hasn't stopped them in the past) with the 66 still leading and the 92 (92010) DIT passing Watford.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H11018/2017/08/02/advanced

Can't see any other obvious places/timings for a loco swap so potentially it'll be 66 + DIT 92 all the way to Carlisle.

 

[railhead56]

Some delays/differences with the China Clay run today - not sure if planned or not (I'm assuming the delays weren't at least...!)

Set off 36 Early from Dollands Moor, presumably with the 66 leading (66712) and arrived in the Tonbridge area 30 Early. However, it then lost 104 minutes - passing Tonbridge 74 Late, then lost further time and was 95 Late by Sevenoaks. Don't have a reason for this delay as yet.

There was a T3 possession between Hildenborough and Sevenoaks which did not end until 4.45 so there was a 2 hour wait. Delayed 6X71 from DM to Hornsey depot too so two hits for gbrf.

 

[TimboM]

There was a T3 possession between Hildenborough and Sevenoaks which did not end until 4.45 so there was a 2 hour wait. Delayed 6X71 from DM to Hornsey depot too so two hits for gbrf.

Ah OK, thanks for the info.

Was that an overrun/unscheduled possession then?

 

[Far north 37]

what would the gbrf coloured 92 outside willesden tmd earlier have been seen it along with a green freightliner 90

 

[TimboM]

what would the gbrf coloured 92 outside willesden tmd earlier have been seen it along with a green freightliner 90

Would be 92032 outside Willesden (the other GBRf one out and about, 92028, is currently reacquainting itself with the tunnel after 2+ years since it was last there). 032 has been status "X" on TOPS for the last week, so probably having an exam and/or some repairs.

(92028 was outside the London end of Willesden on Tue morning though, and 032 wasn't visible, so if you've seen one earlier in the week it may well have been 028.)

The F/Liner 90 is 90042. The other one currently on hire (049) is the same livery, but is currently up in Scotland working the Edinburgh/Carstairs Lowlander circuit.

 

[Far north 37]

Would be 92032 outside Willesden (the other GBRf one out and about, 92028, is currently reacquainting itself with the tunnel after 2+ years since it was last there). 032 has been status "X" on TOPS for the last week, so probably having an exam and/or some repairs.

(92028 was outside the London end of Willesden on Tue morning though, and 032 wasn't visible, so if you've seen one earlier in the week it may well have been 028.)

The F/Liner 90 is 90042. The other one currently on hire (049) is the same livery, but is currently up in Scotland working the Edinburgh/Carstairs Lowlander circuit.

yeah it was outside the depot i seen it about 5.30 tonight was hoping it might have been 028 havent caught it yet since it been back out and about nevermind though

 

[TimboM]

yeah it was outside the depot i seen it about 5.30 tonight was hoping it might have been 028 havent caught it yet since it been back out and about nevermind though

Sorry to rub it in... this was Tue am before it went down to D Moor: https://flic.kr/p/XgrvVs (naff shot from a speeding Pendolino).

It'll be back up Willesden way or passing with the cars or some other service fairly soon no doubt.

 

[Far north 37]

Sorry to rub it in... this was Tue am before it went down to D Moor: https://flic.kr/p/XgrvVs (naff shot from a speeding Pendolino).

It'll be back up Willesden way or passing with the cars or some other service fairly soon no doubt.

haha fair play every time i intended to go catch it on the cars the weather was horrible joys of a british summer

 

[TimboM]

haha fair play every time i intended to go catch it on the cars the weather was horrible joys of a british summer

It'll be that bit more enjoyable when you do finally see it

 

[Far north 37]

It'll be that bit more enjoyable when you do finally see it

hopefully dbc dont end up getting there hands on it