Calder Valley Disruption

[TUC]

There were widespread delays at Halifax station last night, apparently due to trespassers on the line near Bradford.

The station staff announced that the information on the station displays were likely to be incorrect and sure enough they were, as we're the automated announcements. For example, what was announced as a train to York was in fact a train to Manchester.

I know that where disruption occurs very close to a station this can lead to incorrect information as the train may have already passed the detection point but in this case the disruption was some distance away and the incorrect information appeared to be affecting all trains, not just those directly caught up in the disruption.

I am left wondering if the incorrect information issue was actually connected to the incident or was a totally different problem altogether. Does anyone know what the issue was?

 

[northernchris]

This afternoon's 1321 Manchester Victoria - Leeds failed in the Sowerby Bridge area causing quite significant disruption through the afternoon. I believe the unit is allocated a 155, but does anyone know which unit was involved? It appeared to have been terminated at Halifax, where I assume the following 1348 Manchester Victoria - Selby would have been attached to get it back to Leeds for attention

 

[nrturner]

There was a 155 out of use on platform 2 at Bradford Interchange when I got there, but I don't recall the unit number.

 

[nrturner]

It was affecting Bradford too. I assume it's to do with the signalling on the Caldervale Line which is hardly state of the art.

In these situations, if the staff are available, it would be best turning off the announcements and PIS systems and have a member of staff with a megaphone!

 

[Fishnchipsrule]

Long Line announcers (based at York now instead of Leeds AFAIK) would normally make manual announcements unless they had relevant pre recorded ones available. But Yeah, The s&c on the Calder Valley line isn't as high tech as it really should be although this should change when the Northern Hub improvements get into full swing!

 

[yorksrob]

It was affecting Bradford too. I assume it's to do with the signalling on the Caldervale Line which is hardly state of the art.

In these situations, if the staff are available, it would be best turning off the announcements and PIS systems and have a member of staff with a megaphone!

Surely there is the technical ability to make manual announcements ?

 

[Fishnchipsrule]

At Bradford Interchange there is the facility to do manual ones but I think places like Halifax/New Pudsey/Hebden Bridge etc the equipment was taken out the booking offices ages ago.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

At Bradford Interchange there is the facility to do manual ones but I think places like Halifax/New Pudsey/Hebden Bridge etc the equipment was taken out the booking offices ages ago.

Knowing how much heritage items are valued at Hebden Bridge, there may well be an early Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway item that could well perform the said task, but without looking out of place there...

 

[Hebden Bridger]

I can assure you that the facility to make platform announcements is very much in place at Hebden Bridge and is well used by the station staff to inform passengers of the real identity of the next train. Since the installation of electronic displays, I have witnessed on several occasions the recorded announcements (useless) contradicting the electronic displays (fallible) and the booking office staff correcting either or both.

On one occasion when there were delays, the recorded announcements were saying both the xx.40 Leeds via Dewsbury and the xx.50 to York were delayed and the next train was the xx.00 to Leeds via Bradford. The xx.40 disappeared from the electronic display, which showed the xx.50 to be the next train. The station staff were (correctly) announcing the xx.40 would be the first to arrive, the Network Rail app was also correct.

As an IT consultant, I've never known whether to laugh or cry, the same base data on train position must be available to these different systems. How can they be so cocked-up?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The pa and screens on sections of the Calder Valley at places like Hebden Bridge are not connected to a live feed, they rely on manual intervention. Thus if the announcer in York is busy or hasn't noticed anything, then they are not very accurate.

 

[northernchris]

I'm assuming the system East Coast use (certainly at Wakefield and Doncaster) is different to the one Northern uses as the info boards at East Coast managed stations are much more reliable

 

[Searle]

As an IT consultant, I've never known whether to laugh or cry, the same base data on train position must be available to these different systems. How can they be so cocked-up?

As I'm sure you know, Hebden Bridge is where the line from Preston and Manchester converges, and if the Blackpool train is about 10 minutes late, it's difficult to predict which one will be allowed through the junction first, only the signaler can decide, which is why the system usually can't make it's mind up!

 

[TUC]

The pa and screens on sections of the Calder Valley at places like Hebden Bridge are not connected to a live feed, they rely on manual intervention. Thus if the announcer in York is busy or hasn't noticed anything, then they are not very accurate.

But surely if there is major disruption happening-as in this case- the stations affected should be their first oriority.

 

[Ploughman]

Many times when working on a track relay in any station equipped with auto announcements.
At the point were all track was out and we were reballasting and relaying, people started to appear for the first timetabled trains.
We had to inform passengers ourselves that there where no trains at all until the Monday morning as the announcer kept coming up with "The next train is ---"
As we were "Railway people as we were in orange" we got the comments and often the abuse.
Our possessions were booked 12 months out does nobody inform the operating department responsible?

 

[Solent&Wessex]

But surely if there is major disruption happening-as in this case- the stations affected should be their first oriority.

Possibly so, but it depends what else is going on elsewhere on the network. There is no dedicated Calder Valley line announcer!

The main issue is often that as there is no feed from the automatic systems and is all manually controlled, then the announcer will spot something such as a delay, input the details, but then fail to notice and update if the situation changes - such as missing out stops to make up time, or incurring further delay following other trains.

 

[AndyHudds]

There was a bit of mess up at Halifax on Thursday evening with announcements going a bit awry. The 19.06 Huddersfield service was delayed by 9 minutes, so obviously this delayed the 19.12 to Victoria. The announcement over the tannoy stated that the next train on platform 1 was the 19.12 to Victoria when in fact it was the Huddersfield train that came in next, this led to a passenger getting on think it was the Victoria service who wanted to get off at Walsden!!

The York to Blackpool service on this line has shocking punctuality, I used it twice in the last week and out of 4 trips,inward and outward, and all 4 were late!! Can anyone explain as to why the service is so poor at timekeeping and why does it keep stopping starting and generally going at a snails pace after Tod Junction through to Burnley Manchester Road?

 

[edwin_m]

The permitted speed between Hall Royd (near Todmorden) and Burnley is low due to curvature and the poor formation (earthworks supporting the track). It also has quite a gradient, so trains will run quite slowly. This doesn't explain the stopping and starting, and except for the occasional freight train there shouldn't be anything to catch up with, so possibly the train itself was suffering from some problem.

 

[AndyHudds]

The permitted speed between Hall Royd (near Todmorden) and Burnley is low due to curvature and the poor formation (earthworks supporting the track). It also has quite a gradient, so trains will run quite slowly. This doesn't explain the stopping and starting, and except for the occasional freight train there shouldn't be anything to catch up with, so possibly the train itself was suffering from some problem.

Are Network Rail ever gonna sort it? Its affecting the timekeeping of the train and its practically impossible to make any kind of planned connections.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are Network Rail ever gonna sort it? Its affecting the timekeeping of the train and its practically impossible to make any kind of planned connections.

I'd hope that with the upcoming blockade to repair Holme tunnel and reconnect the Tod curve, there'll be general maintenance carried out on the trackwork in general (perhaps some work has been delayed anyway as NR will have known that a big blockade was coming up).

Does the Bradford-Huddersfield service still have a scheduled layover for 10mins at Halifax? If so, it must have been pretty well delayed to cause problems to the following services!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

May I remind forum members that there is still a dedicated "Todmorden Curve" master thread on the Infrastructure and Stations forum, where discussions on any part of the Copy Pit line would be welcomed.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

May I remind forum members that there is still a dedicated "Todmorden Curve" master thread on the Infrastructure and Stations forum, where discussions on any part of the Copy Pit line would be welcomed.

Quite right Paul. I only mentioned it as I felt it might be relevant to AndyHudds's question.