CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[Lurcheroo]

So we can expect the Cambrian 197 crew training to get used around mid November 2026 (or earlier) other wise the training expires.

September is the planned month. The exact date I don’t know !

5 days for drivers, and 2 for conductors IIRC

Think it was 5 for everywhere else. 6 for us though.

 

[craigybagel]

September is the planned month. The exact date I don’t know !

Think it was 5 for everywhere else. 6 for us though.

You need time to learn how to drive with one hand seriously though, between that and the intricacies of ETCS I can see how an extra day is easily justified. It's a bigger step up from 158s than it was for the rest of us who already signed 175s.

 

[tfw756rider]

Updates posted in the 197 Cambrian training schedules thread

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Apr 2026 ==

Looks like 197040 and 197041 might be the only two 197s to not yet to have been accepted. 197039 has made it onto Cambrian testing duties along with 197029 and 197030. I think 197029 & 197030 have been used in the past on passenger services ?.

So I think that 197039, 197040 & 197041 are the only 197s to so far not been exposed to passengers.
Any corrections ?.

That all sounds right. 197041+197040 on the Rail Operations Group 197 Cambrian night-time ETCS mileage accumulation runs tonight (24-25/4/26).

There are at least somewhere in-between 10 and 15 197s that have been on the Cambrian now, if you (or anyone else) would like the numbers?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Updates posted in the 197 Cambrian training schedules thread

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Apr 2026 ==


That all sounds right. 197041+197040 on the Rail Operations Group 197 Cambrian night-time ETCS mileage accumulation runs tonight (24-25/4/26).

There are at least somewhere in-between 10 and 15 197s that have been on the Cambrian now, if you (or anyone else) would like the numbers?

Thanks, I feel I need to visit Crewe but for a very late return back to home !. But I wonder, how often does that early night time trip out to the Cambrian from Crewe and return happen ?.

 

[tfw756rider]

Thanks, I feel I need to visit Crewe but for a very late return back to home !. But I wonder, how often does that early night time trip out to the Cambrian from Crewe and return happen ?.

It's not very often, maybe every few months or so.

 

[Sheridan]

I can't particularly remember the layout on the 197s, but some plugs seem to have the 2 USBs placed perfectly to be mangled by a 3 pin that has been put in the wrong way round. Maybe its some big conspiracy to sell more plugs to transit companies

Yep, I’ve seen this happen multiple times. Unsurprisingly, as you say, it’s always the USB sockets that come off worse!

 

[BenBracken]

We’ve had them on the west Wales lines for a few years now. Nearly all the niggles have been sorted now and there doesn’t seem to be a noticeably bad ride anymore, whether you just get used to it or more CWR has been fitted. The toilet doors all seem to open/close and lock without issue as well. They do zip along at quite a pace, and I’ve personally not had any issues with reliability for over a year now. Only minor gripe is having to wave your hands around randomly in the sink in the hope of water coming out, even if you were lucky enough to get some soap out! (Or even worse you get your hands covered in soap with no means of rinsing them!)

 

[Sheridan]

We’ve had them on the west Wales lines for a few years now. Nearly all the niggles have been sorted now and there doesn’t seem to be a noticeably bad ride anymore, whether you just get used to it or more CWR has been fitted. The toilet doors all seem to open/close and lock without issue as well. They do zip along at quite a pace, and I’ve personally not had any issues with reliability for over a year now. Only minor gripe is having to wave your hands around randomly in the sink in the hope of water coming out, even if you were lucky enough to get some soap out! (Or even worse you get your hands covered in soap with no means of rinsing them!)

I always tend to try and have a look exactly where the sensor is and target it directly! That still doesn’t mean it works, but it means if there’s no water then at least you don’t get soapy hands.

We probably shouldn’t let this thread degenerate into a ‘do you wet your hands before putting soap on’ debate!

 

[tfw756rider]

We’ve had them on the west Wales lines for a few years now. Nearly all the niggles have been sorted now and there doesn’t seem to be a noticeably bad ride anymore, whether you just get used to it or more CWR has been fitted. The toilet doors all seem to open/close and lock without issue as well. They do zip along at quite a pace, and I’ve personally not had any issues with reliability for over a year now. Only minor gripe is having to wave your hands around randomly in the sink in the hope of water coming out, even if you were lucky enough to get some soap out! (Or even worse you get your hands covered in soap with no means of rinsing them!)

The units do have issues with the toilet seats, toilet doors, power sockets and seat-back tables that will hopefully all be rectified.

The seats and ride quality aren't the best but I don't really mind.

I love the look of the cab face with the headlights on, the MTU 1800 Series engines and 6-speed ZF gearboxes really do go and sound well, the brakes also perform well (if a bit noisy) and the Passenger Information System hardware is really good (just needs better software).

 

[XFeed]

I love the look of the cab face with the headlights on, the MTU 1800 Series engines and 6-speed ZF gearboxes really do go and sound well

The MTU Euro 6 engine rafts haven`t been great at times with a number of issues with components, turbos, electrical components and wiring, radiator fans, failure of DPF`s to regen in service, hydraulic leaks to name a few. At times a number of 3 car units had 1 engine isolated for quite a while.
The grey electrical box on the left hand side cannot be accessed with the engine raft in situ and similarly the K100 relay which sits just to the left of the electrical box which you can just see its electrical plug.
You need to be a racing snake to work of these rafts.

 

[tfw756rider]

The MTU Euro 6 engine rafts haven`t been great at times with a number of issues with components, turbos, electrical components and wiring, radiator fans, failure of DPF`s to regen in service, hydraulic leaks to name a few. At times a number of 3 car units had 1 engine isolated for quite a while.
The grey electrical box on the left hand side cannot be accessed with the engine raft in situ and similarly the K100 relay which sits just to the left of the electrical box which you can just see its electrical plug.
You need to be a racing snake to work of these rafts.

View attachment 203168

Oh gosh! Hopefully the engines can be made more reliable in the long term as well then.

Would you be able to tell me about the different pipes and the exhaust / emissions stuff? Looks interesting.

 

[XFeed]

Would you be able to tell me about the different pipes and the exhaust / emissions stuff? Looks interesting.

I think that there are far too many pipes in that picture to identify in a forum post

Here`s a picture showing the DPF and some of its associated equipment and sensors and again there`s a lot to digest in the picture.

Forgot to add but you can see the Add Blue tank at top left hand side and the equipment sitting in the top of the tank again cannot be removed with the engine raft in situ.

 

[tfw756rider]

I think that there are far too many pipes in that picture to identify in a forum post

Here`s a picture showing the DPF and some of its associated equipment and sensors and again there`s a lot to digest in the picture.

Forgot to add but you can see the Add Blue tank at top left hand side and the equipment sitting in the top of the tank again cannot be removed with the engine raft in situ.

View attachment 203174

I can understand how access to certain things would be a pain, but I suppose they had to squeeze a lot in compared to older units?

Having said that though, is the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) kind-of like the ones on lorries now, where it's the DPF, AdBlue dosing system (even if the tank is separate), and exhaust "silencer"/muffler all in one? (as I understand it, DPFs have an exhaust noise reduction side-effect, so less actual "silencing" is needed).

I am intrigued by the pipes, especially the piece of flexi with a yellow-capped cylinder to the right of it - can you explain that?

Also, the small bent piece of pipe on the top-right with a little metal flexi bit in it - is that the bit that connects to the body's exhaust stack?

Anyway, thanks for sharing the photos!

 

[XFeed]

I am intrigued by the pipes, especially the piece of flexi with a yellow-capped cylinder to the right of it - can you explain that?

Also, the small bent piece of pipe on the top-right with a little metal flexi bit in it - is that the bit that connects to the body's exhaust stack?

The piece of flexi pipe which I assume you mean is the pipe attached to the turbo and yellow capped cylinder as you call it, which is adjacent to the alternator, is all part of the engine air induction system and the yellow cap is there to prevent any foreign matter entering the induction system while the engine raft is out of the car. Once in situ the yellow protective cap is removed and the pipework is then connected to the air filter assembly.

The pipe sitting on top of the raft has just been placed there prior to fitting to the DPF, this flexible exhaust connects the DPF to the underframe exhaust system and eventually the exhaust stacks.

 

[tfw756rider]

The piece of flexi pipe which I assume you mean is the pipe attached to the turbo and yellow capped cylinder as you call it, which is adjacent to the alternator, is all part of the engine air induction system and the yellow cap is there to prevent any foreign matter entering the induction system while the engine raft is out of the car. Once in situ the yellow protective cap is removed and the pipework is then connected to the air filter assembly.

The pipe sitting on top of the raft has just been placed there prior to fitting to the DPF, this flexible exhaust connects the DPF to the underframe exhaust system and eventually the exhaust stacks.

Ah that all makes sense, thanks

So in "exhaust 2 - Copy.jpeg", are the cylindrical-looking items (arrowed) small "silencers"/mufflers (with them not needing to be bigger due to exhaust noise reduction already being a side-effect of the DPFs?) No additional exhaust boxes?

In "exhaust 1 - Copy.jpeg", the exhaust exists appear to have some sort of... diffusers? on them, rather than just the big round pipes coming out. Similar to the 175s but of course with one exhaust stack per engine rather than two. Also, what are the items arrowed?

 

[aar0]

In "exhaust 1 - Copy.jpeg", the exhaust exists appear to have some sort of... diffusers? on them, rather than just the big round pipes coming out. Similar to the 175s but of course with one exhaust stack per engine rather than two. Also, what are the items arrowed?

Are the exhausts not the silver oval-shaped pipes coming out of the roof?

 

[BenBracken]

I was intrigued by the sight of a 197 in the Whitland bay platform on Sunday. Didn’t think it was used very much these days, and I’m curious as to why it looked to have had an overnight stay there when Carmarthen is the usual hangout? I wonder how much a return to Sig W34 is?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Reduced service Chester - Liverpool today due to more units that normal needing repair.

 

[Snow1964]

Reduced service Chester - Liverpool today due to more units that normal needing repair.

Here we go again, haven't got big enough fleet that depots can turn out enough servicable stock.

Don't know what numbers of trains using this excuse are for Wales, but GWR coffee shop forum has over 350 trains this month using that excuse on GWR,

It is not leaf fall season, it's fair weather season when things don't get damaged by extreme weather. If can't maintain enough during normal conditions, (and before mid Wales ECTS routes conversion require more units in service) have they really got enough for when going gets tough ?

 

[tfw756rider]

Are the exhausts not the silver oval-shaped pipes coming out of the roof?

Yes, I was asking about other things in the picture.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Apr 2026 ==

I was intrigued by the sight of a 197 in the Whitland bay platform on Sunday. Didn’t think it was used very much these days, and I’m curious as to why it looked to have had an overnight stay there when Carmarthen is the usual hangout? I wonder how much a return to Sig W34 is?

I last saw it used about a year ago (April 2025). In that case, a 197 was left in it for a bit because its driver didn't want to continue towards Fishguard due to being shaken up by trespass/near miss events.

 

[Caaardiff]

I was intrigued by the sight of a 197 in the Whitland bay platform on Sunday. Didn’t think it was used very much these days, and I’m curious as to why it looked to have had an overnight stay there when Carmarthen is the usual hangout? I wonder how much a return to Sig W34 is?

Weekend engineering works likely closing Carmarthen. Happens every so often.

 

[XFeed]

So in "exhaust 2 - Copy.jpeg", are the cylindrical-looking items (arrowed) small "silencers"/mufflers (with them not needing to be bigger due to exhaust noise reduction already being a side-effect of the DPFs?) No additional exhaust boxes?

Sorry can`t help you with that question about noise reduction query plus regarding the complete exhaust make up as the units are that new no one has been that intimate with it yet

In "exhaust 1 - Copy.jpeg", the exhaust exists appear to have some sort of... diffusers? on them, rather than just the big round pipes coming out. Similar to the 175s but of course with one exhaust stack per engine rather than two. Also, what are the items arrowed?

The 2 items arrowed and again I can`t help with those sorry as I hadn`t been anywhere near the gangways on the roof and I haven`t even noticed them before, if I had to have a guess they could be some sort of air ventilation intakes/exhausts which could be plausible for a car with the toilet close by but why on a non toilet car ?

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Cancellations again today Chester - Liverpool…

 

[sd0733]

Cancellations again today Chester - Liverpool…

5 197s short at Chester for start of service this morning.

Availability for all the mainline fleets has plummetted the last couple of weeks. Even had a single 153 was out on Cheltenhams this week.

 

[Gordonman]

5 197s short at Chester for start of service this morning.

Availability for all the mainline fleets has plummetted the last couple of weeks. Even had a single 153 was out on Cheltenhams this week.

Pretty much par for the course at the moment unfortunately.Presume CAF will be paying the bill for the lack of units in traffic though.
Plenty on Holyhead they can use though as well as one at Shrewsbury.
There was a 5H99 path from Holyhead depot - Chester TMD due to run this morning to bring a unit or two across for service but they could not even be bothered running that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2026 ==

Pretty much par for the course at the moment unfortunately.Presume CAF will be paying the bill for the lack of units in traffic though.
Plenty on Holyhead they can use though as well as one at Shrewsbury.
There was a 5H99 path from Holyhead depot - Chester TMD due to run this morning to bring a unit or two across for service but they could not even be bothered running that.

RTT has updated now and it shows 5H99 just running from the stabling point at Holyhead as far as the station.I have checked in case the unit(s) were added to another service but it appears not.
A 5Z07 Holyhead MD - Chester TMD has now appeared in the system for this afternoon with no allocation so far unless it relates to 197107 which has been OOS for at least a couple of weeks.Did not realise they were storing 3 car units at Holyhead.
Also anyone know what worked 3C03 Aberystwyth - Mach today as well as 3C10 Mach - Shrewsbury please?

 

[Jez]

Looks like there are the following out of service today - 008 011 014 020 042 045 046 107 110 115 118 120 121 123 126 . Ive not included the ETCS units.

 

[Peter Sarf]

ETCS unit 197025 might be out of service. Came off 1B58 the 06:43 Cardiff to Pembroke Dock at Swansea on Friday 24/04/2026 with replacement 197015 taking over 23 minutes late. Later that day at 15:32 it left Swansea for Canton as 5Z25. On Sunday 26/04/2026 it left on 5Z25 at 16:05 for Chester Middle Yard. Not been active since afaikt.

 

[sd0733]

Pretty much par for the course at the moment unfortunately.Presume CAF will be paying the bill for the lack of units in traffic though.
Plenty on Holyhead they can use though as well as one at Shrewsbury.
There was a 5H99 path from Holyhead depot - Chester TMD due to run this morning to bring a unit or two across for service but they could not even be bothered running that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Apr 2026 ==


A 5Z07 Holyhead MD - Chester TMD has now appeared in the system for this afternoon with no allocation so far unless it relates to 197107 which has been OOS for at least a couple of weeks.Did not realise they were storing 3 car units at Holyhead.

Yes, 197107 on that. Theres been a couple of 3s into and out of store at Holyhead.

The Cambrian ones dont throw up allocations very often so seems the only way to get a lot of the allocations for them is the physically see them

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes, 197107 on that. Theres been a couple of 3s into and out of store at Holyhead.

The Cambrian ones dont throw up allocations very often so seems the only way to get a lot of the allocations for them is the physically see them

I identify the ETCS 197s that are on passenger services by using Live Rail Record or real time trains.
Amongst those in use are 197003, 197025 (until recently), 197026, 197032, 197037 & 197038.
I feel there are others - there certainly have been in the last six months but TfW do rotate them after a month or two.

I think 197029, 197030 & 197039 are the three ETCS 197s not showing up because they are on Cambrian testing/training.

I know 179040 & 197041 are at Crewe not yet used afaikt.

 

[tfw756rider]

I think 197029, 197030 & 197039 are the three ETCS 197s not showing up because they are on Cambrian testing/training.

Sometimes @sd0733 can see them on the internal system even if they don't go out to the publicly viewable data, but even then, again, only sometimes. I used to see most of the 197 workings on the Cambrian, but now I'm focusing on the coast as I've seen plenty of the Aberystwyths and Shrewsburys.

I know 179040 & 197041 are at Crewe not yet used afaikt.

They've been on the Cambrian overnight recently as a pair (Rail Operations Group-operated mileage accumulation for CAF), so not yet accepted by Transport for Wales.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Apr 2026 ==

Updates posted in the 197 Cambrian training schedules thread