CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[tfw756rider]

Does seem only The moves onto and off the system are so far inputted with the rest to follow.

Thought so, thanks. I'll keep an eye out for the rest

Realtime Trains | 3C22 1441 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C22 1441 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

@sd0733, I've now been informed of this one. Any I've missed?

 

[DannyMich2018]

Normally 20mph max, 5mph over points and there's quite a few of those on this move. It's on a wheel skate

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==


Does seem only The moves onto and off the system are so far inputted with the rest to follow.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Nov 2025 ==


There's large amounts of 197s stopped too at the moment, 14 was the total last night. Cambrian sets just about keep the show on the road but short forms are really mounting.

Only 2 out 7 Mk4 sets are available today so not just 197s going through a poor period. Let's hope things improve for both fleets.

 

[sd0733]

Only 2 out 7 Mk4 sets are available today so not just 197s going through a poor period. Let's hope things improve for both fleets.

Yes, the post is replied to was about Mk4s that's why I didnt mention them again. Availability for all fleets, ATs, 158s, 197s, Mk4s are all really poor at the moment.

 

[Anonymous10]

Yes, the post is replied to was about Mk4s that's why I didnt mention them again. Availability for all fleets, ATs, 158s, 197s, Mk4s are all really poor at the moment.

150s proving their worth again?

 

[Along the bay]

197043 failed on arrival at Chester at 18:24 today.

 

[sd0733]

150s proving their worth again?

Certainly are! Considering how few of them are left theyre constantly covering for 153s and 197s.

 

[Anonymous10]

Certainly are! Considering how few of them are left theyre constantly covering for 153s and 197s.

Maybe gbr should have a "strategic reserve" of class 150s

 

[tfw756rider]

Maybe gbr should have a "strategic reserve" of class 150s

The train service operations of Wales & Borders won't go to Great British Railways (GBR) though, will they?

Unless you mean the "infrastructure" part of GBR (the Network Rail successor) having a strategic reserve of 150s that could be used by the train service operations, including Transport for Wales, when necessary?

 

[Anonymous10]

The train service operations of Wales & Borders won't go to Great British Railways (GBR) though, will it?

Unless you mean the "infrastructure" part of GBR (the Network Rail successor) having a strategic reserve of 150s that could be used by the train service operations, including Transport for Wales, when necessary?

Good point. But i mean a strategic reserve accessible to all. However they are a bit old for that.

 

[DelW]

Yes, the post is replied to was about Mk4s that's why I didnt mention them again. Availability for all fleets, ATs, 158s, 197s, Mk4s are all really poor at the moment.

Is this partly wheel flats resulting from leaf fall? The recent wet and windy weather has resulted in huge numbers of soggy leaves on the ground round my way.

Good point. But i mean a strategic reserve accessible to all. However they are a bit old for that.

Our "Heritage fleet"

 

[Gordonman]

197029 has returned to Holyhead today.

5T29 Chester TMD - Holyhead.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

New unit 18/11/25 at Crewe.

 

[tfw756rider]

New unit 18/11/25 at Crewe.

Thanks for letting us know Probably 197040?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Thanks for letting us know Probably 197040?

Unsure on exact number.

 

[tfw756rider]

No worries

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

It seems that there's a pretty intensive Cambrian 197 testing (and training) plan for the rest of this week, and next week:

Realtime Trains | 3Q81 2130 Crewe South Yard to Machynlleth | 06/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q81 2130 departure from Crewe South Yard to Machynlleth on 06/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q81 2130 Crewe South Yard to Machynlleth

Departing on 6th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3Q82 0048 Machynlleth to Welshpool | 07/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q82 0048 departure from Machynlleth to Welshpool on 07/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q82 0048 Machynlleth to Welshpool

Departing on 7th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3Q83 0149 Welshpool to Newtown (Powys) | 07/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q83 0149 departure from Welshpool to Newtown (Powys) on 07/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q83 0149 Welshpool to Newtown (Powys)

Departing on 7th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3Q84 0212 Newtown (Powys) to Crewe South Yard | 07/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q84 0212 departure from Newtown (Powys) to Crewe South Yard on 07/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q84 0212 Newtown (Powys) to Crewe South Yard

Departing on 7th November 2025​

========================================

Realtime Trains | 3Q86 2130 Crewe South Yard to Machynlleth | 07/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q86 2130 departure from Crewe South Yard to Machynlleth on 07/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q86 2130 Crewe South Yard to Machynlleth

Departing on 7th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3Q82 0048 Machynlleth to Welshpool | 08/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q82 0048 departure from Machynlleth to Welshpool on 08/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q82 0048 Machynlleth to Welshpool

Departing on 8th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3Q83 0149 Welshpool to Newtown (Powys) | 08/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q83 0149 departure from Welshpool to Newtown (Powys) on 08/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q83 0149 Welshpool to Newtown (Powys)

Departing on 8th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3Q84 0212 Newtown (Powys) to Crewe South Yard | 08/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3Q84 0212 departure from Newtown (Powys) to Crewe South Yard on 08/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3Q84 0212 Newtown (Powys) to Crewe South Yard

Departing on 8th November 2025​

========================================

Realtime Trains | 3C10 0420 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C10 0420 departure from Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C10 0420 Shrewsbury Abbey Frgte Cs to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 10th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0924 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth

Departing on 10th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 1020 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 10th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C05 1557 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli

Departing on 10th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 10/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C06 1832 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 10/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 10th November 2025​

========================================

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth | 11/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0924 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth on 11/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth

Departing on 11th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 11/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 1020 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 11/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 11th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 11/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C05 1557 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 11/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli

Departing on 11th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 11/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C06 1832 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 11/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 11th November 2025​

========================================

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth | 12/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0924 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth on 12/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth

Departing on 12th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 12/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 1020 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 12/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 12th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 12/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C05 1557 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 12/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli

Departing on 12th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 12/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C06 1832 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 12/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 12th November 2025​

========================================

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0924 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth

Departing on 13th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 1020 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 13th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C05 1557 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli

Departing on 13th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C06 1832 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 13th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C22 1441 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C22 1441 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C22 1441 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury

Departing on 13th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C98 1040 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C98 1040 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C98 1040 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Shrewsbury

Departing on 13th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C99 1226 Shrewsbury to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 13/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C99 1226 departure from Shrewsbury to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 13/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C99 1226 Shrewsbury to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 13th November 2025​

========================================

Realtime Trains | 3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth | 14/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C00 0924 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth on 14/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C00 0924 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Aberystwyth

Departing on 14th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 14/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C01 1020 departure from Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 14/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C01 1020 Aberystwyth to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 14th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli | 14/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C05 1557 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli on 14/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C05 1557 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Pwllheli

Departing on 14th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs | 14/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C06 1832 departure from Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs on 14/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C06 1832 Pwllheli to Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs

Departing on 14th November 2025​

Realtime Trains | 3C11 0423 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D. | 14/11/2025

Real-time train running information for 3C11 0423 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D. on 14/11/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

3C11 0423 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D.

Departing on 14th November 2025​

 

[sd0733]

No worries

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

It seems that there's a pretty intensive Cambrian 197 testing (and training) plan for the rest of this week, and next week.

There's no training included in there its for testing. AFAIK the ones at the end of this week are for final validation to enable the day time runs next week. Those are to fine tune stopping points, ASDO etc. There's also an upgrade to ASDO which is on the test units which if successful will be rolled out across the whole fleet.

 

[tfw756rider]

There's no training included in there its for testing. AFAIK the ones at the end of this week are for final validation to enable the day time runs next week. Those are to fine tune stopping points, ASDO etc. There's also an upgrade to ASDO which is on the test units which if successful will be rolled out across the whole fleet.

Many thanks

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks for letting us know Probably 197040?

I would anticipate 197040 was next.
BUT
I am not aware of any reports of 197040 appearing at Donnington which is the usual place the 197s first appear (by road from CAF Newport) iirc.

 

[158822]

Is it still supposed to be early next year for 197 introduction on the Cambrian Line? If so how likely is it that this will actually happen given that, the 398s are still not ready to push the 756s and 231s onto their lines, the 197s are not even able to cover their booked work, Cambrian 197s are basically propping up the fleet, several 197s are still not ready for service and training hasn’t even started although it shouldn’t take too long to do that I would imagine.

 

[tfw756rider]

I would anticipate 197040 was next.
BUT
I am not aware of any reports of 197040 appearing at Donnington which is the usual place the 197s first appear (by road from CAF Newport) iirc.

Yeah, I realised after I posted that I might have misinterpreted the meaning of the word new.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2025 ==

Is it still supposed to be early next year for 197 introduction on the Cambrian Line? If so how likely is it that this will actually happen given that, the 398s are still not ready to push the 756s and 231s onto their lines, the 197s are not even able to cover their booked work, Cambrian 197s are basically propping up the fleet, several 197s are still not ready for service and training hasn’t even started although it shouldn’t take too long to do that I would imagine.

As far as I'm aware, it's currently "2026" (with no part of the year specified).

 

[sd0733]

Is it still supposed to be early next year for 197 introduction on the Cambrian Line? If so how likely is it that this will actually happen given that, the 398s are still not ready to push the 756s and 231s onto their lines, the 197s are not even able to cover their booked work, Cambrian 197s are basically propping up the fleet, several 197s are still not ready for service and training hasn’t even started although it shouldn’t take too long to do that I would imagine.

In a word no. The 158s are still on lease along with other delays on the Cambrian combined with all the reasons you state its currently not anticipated for the first part of the year.

 

[tfw756rider]

In a word no. The 158s are still on lease along with other delays on the Cambrian combined with all the reasons you state its currently not anticipated for the first part of the year.

So hopefully in the second half of 2026?

 

[158822]

I honestly won’t be sad if it’s delayed further. I am dreading 197 ride quality up the coast.

 

[sd0733]

So hopefully in the second half of 2026?

Yes, certainly looking at later on in 2026. Late summer is the intention.

 

[wythallpaul]

197030 has Sparked back into life Today. 3Z98/3Z99.

Clarification:- 3Z98 1336 Holyhead Car.M.D. (No 3 Letter Code) to Llandudno Junction (LLJ).
Clarification:- 3Z99 1500 Llandudno Junction (LLJ) to Holyhead Car.M.D. (No 3 Letter Code).

 

[tfw756rider]

Yes, certainly looking at later on in 2026. Late summer is the intention.

Many thanks.

 

[Peter Sarf]

197030 has Sparked back into life Today. 3Z98/3Z99.

Clarification:- 3Z98 1336 Holyhead Car.M.D. (No 3 Letter Code) to Llandudno Junction (LLJ).
Clarification:- 3Z99 1500 Llandudno Junction (LLJ) to Holyhead Car.M.D. (No 3 Letter Code).

I think 197030 ventured to Chester on 27/10/2025. It obviously did not stay out long !. And its back at Holyhead again already. Fingers crossed the engineers are getting it back in readiness for action.

 

[tfw756rider]

@sd0733, as the first night of this week's Cambrian 197 didn't run, I'm worried that it might affect next week's plans for the daytime runs? Or I guess they can just use units that have done sufficient mileage on ETCS (or whatever the case may be?)

 

[Rhydgaled]

Is it still 197003 and 197022–197041 (and no other 197s) which are ETCS-fitted? I ask this because I heard rumours (some time ago) that 197003 might have ETCS removed at some point (for use on a higher-numbered unit instead) and that TfW may increase the total number of ETCS-fitted 197s from 21 to 23.

@sd0733, as the first night of this week's Cambrian 197 didn't run, I'm worried that it might affect next week's plans for the daytime runs? Or I guess they can just use units that have done sufficient mileage on ETCS (or whatever the case may be?)

If they do run, are the night-time runs for ETCS-fitted units or are they running at night to allow them to be non-ETCS units under special arangements?

 

[tfw756rider]

Is it still 197003 and 197022–197041 (and no other 197s) which are ETCS-fitted? I ask this because I heard rumours (some time ago) that 197003 might have ETCS removed at some point (for use on a higher-numbered unit instead) and that TfW may increase the total number of ETCS-fitted 197s from 21 to 23.

Yes, I believe that 197003 and 197022-197041 are still the 21 units that are ETCS-fitted (or will be, once 197040 and 197041 have left the factory of course).

If they do run, are the night-time runs for ETCS-fitted units or are they running at night to allow them to be non-ETCS units under special arangements?

They're for ETCS-fitted units, I believe the ETCS mileage accumulation that has to take place in addition to the overall mileage that has to be put on a unit. These are operated by Rail Operations Group.

Then next week's daytime runs will be operated by Transport for Wales, and will be for stopping point and Automated Selective Door Opening (ASDO) purposes.