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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

Lewisham2221

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To be fair, even a 3 car 175 would keep to time on 2 engines - just about, if you thrashed it. A 3 car 197 will keep to time on 2 engines quite easily - except for as Western52 says, they are more liable to slip. 197s are already quite light on their feet and can be a handful in slippy season - it's even worse if you've got an engine out.
It's very noticeable pulling away from a station with an engine out on a 3-car 197 - much slower as the computer tries to calculate how to distribute the power being applied (probably worded badly, sorry) and you can often still feel them slipping, then power shutting off and being reapplied. Once they're going, they are more than capable of almost normal performance speed/timings wise.
 
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craigybagel

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It's very noticeable pulling away from a station with an engine out on a 3-car 197 - much slower as the computer tries to calculate how to distribute the power being applied (probably worded badly, sorry) and you can often still feel them slipping, then power shutting off and being reapplied. Once they're going, they are more than capable of almost normal performance speed/timings wise.
The biggest issue is overcoming the parking brake. It's automatic, the driver has no control over it - you just apply power and the unit works it out itself when there's enough power to avoid rolling back and it releases the brakes. It's pretty instant when all 3 engines are running, but if one is out it can take 10 seconds or longer. I'm not sure why drivers are not trusted to have full control over the brakes any more but I know that CAF units are not unique in that regard either.
 

Lurcheroo

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The biggest issue is overcoming the parking brake. It's automatic, the driver has no control over it - you just apply power and the unit works it out itself when there's enough power to avoid rolling back and it releases the brakes. It's pretty instant when all 3 engines are running, but if one is out it can take 10 seconds or longer. I'm not sure why drivers are not trusted to have full control over the brakes any more but I know that CAF units are not unique in that regard either.
I think the parking brake situation and not being able to open a window as I drive along will be my least favourite part about them haha!

I can see the 197’s get 21 minutes to go from Crewe to Chester and seem
to be able to do it in 20, does that sound about right?
Where as Avanti’s new 805’s on diesel get 20 minutes and seem To be able to do it in 19.
 

Bevan Price

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I think the parking brake situation and not being able to open a window as I drive along will be my least favourite part about them haha!

I can see the 197’s get 21 minutes to go from Crewe to Chester and seem
to be able to do it in 20, does that sound about right?
Where as Avanti’s new 805’s on diesel get 20 minutes and seem To be able to do it in 19.
It partly depends on which platform is used at Chester. Going into a bay platform takes about one minute longer than if you go into the through platform (3).
(And you could add another 2-3 minutes if a 150 or 153 - limited to 75 mph - was used. )
 

Jez

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Not a good day once again for 197s today. The first two Milford's to Manchester were 150s but both swapped for a 197 at Cardiff. This seems to be a regular thing now, but at least Cardiff-Manchester passengers get more suitable trains. Also another 150 and a 158 appeared to be on 2 of the 3 Pembroke diagrams. The Cardiff service I saw passing Neath around 8pm was formed of the 158 from Pembroke Diagrams plus a pair of 153s. There may well be others i havent checked on.

I dont think as many Sprinters have been this way since the June timetable change!
 

SWML9102

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197101 was in Brickyard Sidings this morning around 7am. Appeared to be being prepared for road transport - split in three with tarpaulin over the gangways and an Allelys low loader alongside.
 

BillStampy

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197101 was in Brickyard Sidings this morning around 7am. Appeared to be being prepared for road transport - split in three with tarpaulin over the gangways and an Allelys low loader alongside.
101 has been sat around Canton for 2 months, I have no clue where it's going.
 

Lurcheroo

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197101 was in Brickyard Sidings this morning around 7am. Appeared to be being prepared for road transport - split in three with tarpaulin over the gangways and an Allelys low loader alongside.
Was seen heading along the M4 today.
 

craigybagel

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I think the parking brake situation and not being able to open a window as I drive along will be my least favourite part about them haha!
Can still drive with the window open - you just need to remember to close it again before you try opening the door
I can see the 197’s get 21 minutes to go from Crewe to Chester and seem
to be able to do it in 20, does that sound about right?
Where as Avanti’s new 805’s on diesel get 20 minutes and seem To be able to do it in 19.
Those are very conservative times. 18 minutes is easily achievable, but there are many variables like platforms and running brake tests, and lately the biggest variable of all seems to be what condition the units engines are in.
 

Bikeman78

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Can still drive with the window open - you just need to remember to close it again before you try opening the door

Those are very conservative times. 18 minutes is easily achievable, but there are many variables like platforms and running brake tests, and lately the biggest variable of all seems to be what condition the units engines are in.
A 142 could do it in 20 minutes so it would be worrying if a 197 couldn't beat that.
 

simonmpoulton

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I remember when travelling on a lightly loaded 3-car 175 Crewe to Chester and it only taking around 16 minutes!
 

Envoy

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Was seen heading along the M4 today.
Wonder why a broken train can’t be transported by rail - unless something wrong with the running gear?

Edit - just seen on another thread that it has faulty wheel sets.
 

Caaardiff

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Wonder why a broken train can’t be transported by rail - unless something wrong with the running gear?

Edit - just seen on another thread that it has faulty wheel sets.
This was the one involved in the derailment on Canton. When 197020 derailed at Crewe it had to move a 5mph to Chester. That would be out of the question from Canton to Chester.
 

Western 52

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2 of the 3 Pembroke diagrams are not 197s again today, with one running as a single 153! That must be cosy on a busy summer Friday!
 

Jez

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2 of the 3 Pembroke diagrams are not 197s again today, with one running as a single 153! That must be cosy on a busy summer Friday!
There was also a pair of 153s on the lunchtime Swanline and these swapped to the 15xx Cardiff to Milford Haven service and the 197 on this diagram swapped to the 1549 Manchester (which is 4 carriages from Cardiff). Another Milford to Manchester was a 150 but this was swapped as usual at Cardiff for a 197. It seems a lot of effort is made to ensure 197s are on services the other side of Cardiff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Now swapped to a 150. It'll be my train from work at 1740.
It looks like it was swapped with the 150 that was on the Heart of Wales and the single 153 then did the afternoon service to Shrewsbury. Good swapping when its needed as Pembroke Dock usually justifies a 2 car more so than the Heart of Wales.
 

Lurcheroo

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Sounds like there are plans for a trial of 5 car 197’s Shrewsbury - Manchester Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Not sure on any more details than that at this time.
I’m wondering if they’ve been able to do something with the ASDO profiles and are ready to give them a go for real.
 

childwallblues

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Sounds like there are plans for a trial of 5 car 197’s Shrewsbury - Manchester Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Not sure on any more details than that at this time.
I’m wondering if they’ve been able to do something with the ASDO profiles and are ready to give them a go for real.
1V82 0624 Holyhead to Cardiff is 197102 and 197042.
 

40029 Saxonia

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Is anyone able to confirm whether the batch of Cambrian units (197003/22-41) are all built yet and where the ones that are built are located/stored?

Many thanks
 

Lurcheroo

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Is anyone able to confirm whether the batch of Cambrian units (197003/22-41) are all built yet and where the ones that are built are located/stored?

Many thanks
Some definitely are built, I have 003, 022-029,031,033,034 and 037 definitely having been seen and photographed.
I believe there are some unnumbered ones at Donnington but that’s about all I know sorry.
 

Jacob Porrett

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197003 is currently at Crewe depot with 197033, 19730, 197024, 197029 and 197121 is also at Crewe depot today.
 

BillStampy

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Oh and here we go again. FOUR 197/1s on Maestegs today, FOUR! As someone who lives along this service, yes, I like that idea, but thinking logically, that really should be on any of the 2 coach 197s or sprinters on Manchesters, NOT this. 197111, 102, 118, 121 for context by the way.
 

vicbury

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Oh and here we go again. FOUR 197/1s on Maestegs today, FOUR! As someone who lives along this service, yes, I like that idea, but thinking logically, that really should be on any of the 2 coach 197s or sprinters on Manchesters, NOT this. 197111, 102, 118, 121 for context by the way.
I've not had a 197 between Cardiff and Cheltenham for months so I'll gladly take them over the late running 150s and 153s I always seem to end up on!
 

Diedinium

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knock on the drivers door when stopped at a station and ask them if the aircon is on. if the train is picked up in sleep mode, the aircon switches off in the saloon and its not obvious to the driver unless the go to the specific screen. It could also be in Empty Stock Mode too, which also turns the aircon off. but if this was the case the screens would show "not in service". Most drivers don't check these things and just drive. Its not part of any SOPs nor are we told to check, just something some of us do off our own backs. I'm forever taking over units that have the aircon switched out and showing 26+ degrees in the saloon.
I always check the HVAC screen because of this, a lot of drivers don't know that when taking a unit to operational mode from sleep you need to turn the saloon HVAC back on and switch the lighting back to active from standby.

Why it doesn't do this automatically when you key in I have no idea.
 

TDK

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I think the parking brake situation and not being able to open a window as I drive along will be my least favourite part about them haha!

I can see the 197’s get 21 minutes to go from Crewe to Chester and seem
to be able to do it in 20, does that sound about right?
Where as Avanti’s new 805’s on diesel get 20 minutes and seem To be able to do it in 19.
Unless it's a new thing you can drive a 197 with the window open, to be pedantic it's not a parking brake it's a holding brake. 21 minutes is ample between Crewe and Chester even for a 150 if you get clear signals.
 

Lurcheroo

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Unless it's a new thing you can drive a 197 with the window open, to be pedantic it's not a parking brake it's a holding brake. 21 minutes is ample between Crewe and Chester even for a 150 if you get clear signals.
Fair to be pedantic, poor terminology by me especially as my training to be a driver had 197’s as our core traction! :oops:

I know, but I can’t slide it open and enjoy the sea breeze as I gracefully glide across Barmouth bridge at 21.74mph haha!
And most importantly be able to close it before I round the corner into Barmouth tunnel where the screeching is deafening!
 

JakeMurphy

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197109 has not had a good day, it must be a horrible failure if it’s still blocking the line 4 hours later..
 

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