C2C upcoming nationalisation.

[bramling]

The pragmatic approach of placing such regularly requested info on the TOCs website and signposting enquiries with the relevant link seems sensible. Otherwise laborious back and forward debates and reviews about what is or is not frivolous are likely to ensue. There are already sensible get-out clauses where the satisfying of particular requests would create an unreasonable administrative time and cost burden.

Agreed. They should just do the same with announcements, where possible, and be done with it. The practical cost in doing so will in most cases be pretty close to zero.

 

[OneOfThe48]

Diagrams don’t provide unit numbers. They do provide details of how rolling stock is utilised though. I’d say there is value in that information being in the public domain, and essentially is isn’t available through any other official means.

For practical purposes the average passenger would be able to use this information to choose which services they might wish to use, especially in terms of length, but also potentially choosing certain classes of train over others.

Most operators provide train length information on websites, but the Class of train is less common even though I think it should be more widespread (in the same place as length, typically on the timetables) as for some operators like Southeastern or Northern/TPE it would be genuinely helpful information for customers.

I'm sure some people find unit diagrams or individual train unit allocations interesting, but I would say that's not a good enough reason why they should be provided, and I don't think they should be. Personally of course!

 

[StephenHunter]

c2c only has three real types - the 357/0 and /2s with 3+2 seating, the "Metro" 357/3 with 2+2 and the 720/6s. I like all of them, but I've always found GA the more interesting line.

 

[720144]

but I've always found GA the more interesting line.

fully agreed here.

c2c only has three real types - the 357/0 and /2s with 3+2 seating, the "Metro" 357/3 with 2+2 and the 720/6s. I like all of them.

While mentioning the 357/3 metro is basically an ex /2. There is only 11+ /2 kept in original with the 3+2.

As soon as all 74 357’s have been repainted by the end of next year, I think c2c will look a lot more transformed along with the recent 720/6’s.

 

[saismee]

Why are people so desperate for this? I don’t get it.

I imagine some enthusiasts want their hands on the audio for train simulators. Unit diagrams are obviously for spotters. I don't think it's enjoyable trying to spot/get a picture of/ every unit of a class but I do enjoy seeing the few special liveries when they pass. I think the furthest I've gone to get a specific unit was a 5 minute walk to watch 66773 "Pride of GB Railfreight" but it wasn't exactly far...

I see no harm in these being publicly available, and no harm in the FOI requests. While I agree that the speed is a bit excessive, the time to gather the sound files (or diagrams) don't reach the time/cost limit of FOI requests, so no problem.

 

[BurtonM]

Nothing will happen, like when Northern's contract renewed and things actually became less transparent.

 

[StephenHunter]

Saw 720601 this morning. I believe the Trenitalia vinyls are gone from all units, but can't be certain.

 

[dk1]

Saw 720601 this morning. I believe the Trenitalia vinyls are gone from all units, but can't be certain.

That has usually been a priority as franchises change hands. Often in the week or so beforehand as units pass through the shed for maintenance.

 

[720144]

Saw 720601 this morning. I believe the Trenitalia vinyls are gone from all units, but can't be certain.

720606 is now the only current unit holding the stickers on the south side front & end.

I’m not sure what’s happening with 720603, haven’t seen that particular unit for over 2 months.

 

[bramling]

Most operators provide train length information on websites, but the Class of train is less common even though I think it should be more widespread (in the same place as length, typically on the timetables) as for some operators like Southeastern or Northern/TPE it would be genuinely helpful information for customers.

I'm sure some people find unit diagrams or individual train unit allocations interesting, but I would say that's not a good enough reason why they should be provided, and I don't think they should be. Personally of course!

The FOI doesn’t really work on the basis of whether someone feels something should be provided or not. Essentially the objective is to provide info unless there’s a specific exemption in the act itself - which might be because there are safety risks arising from disclosure, or whatever. If a specific exemption doesn’t apply then info should be released as a matter of course, no exceptions, ifs or buts.

This is why Northern don’t really present themselves in the best light. Whilst it’s amusing to read their 5-page letters going to town on why they don’t want to release announcements, it’s all a bit superfluous. If they’re claiming they can’t release the info for technical or contractual reasons, then I don’t see why they feel the need to embellish this with further exemptions like labelling the requests vexatious or posing a H&S risk. It just points to a company which lacks respect for its stakeholders, which is of course a criticism often made of the public sector in general.

To use an example with my local council. I’m sure their officials don’t particularly want to release information about safety inspections they have carried out on certain trees near my house. But with no exemptions applying in the act then they have to. If public bodies were able to pick and choose what they release then it would undermine the whole concept.

 

[StephenHunter]

I went through West Ham this evening and saw that a couple of the posters had the BR double arrow next to the c2c logo, which isn't something I've seen before. Also they seem to have Rail Alphabet platform number signs at the eastern end of the c2c island platform there.

 

[fwsmVor]

the south side front & end.

OT but do c2c units turn that little that they have a south and a north side?

 

[357]

OT but do c2c units turn that little that they have a south and a north side?

I used to report faults on units as south side and north side and they got rectified without issue.

 

[720144]

OT but do c2c units turn that little that they have a south and a north side?

If units was running in reverse formation. But very unlikely on c2c. I don’t know if there is anywhere to turn any units the other way round on LTS.

 

[StephenHunter]

If units was running in reverse formation. But very unlikely on c2c. I don’t know if there is anywhere to turn any units the other way round on LTS.

Not since they closed the Tilbury Riverside branch.

 

[720144]

Not since they closed the Tilbury Riverside branch.

I think 357’s can be turned around at Ilford if going for wheel lathe & repainting if I’m correct.

 

[RUK]

Which is the North end and which is the South end, given that the line runs from East to West?

 

[357]

I think 357’s can be turned around at Ilford if going for wheel lathe & repainting if I’m correct.

Where?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jul 2025 ==

Which is the North end and which is the South end, given that the line runs from East to West?

We aren't talking about ends - we are talking about sides.

If I am driving a train towards Shoeburyness and report banging on the left hand side, if a fitter gets on when the train returns to London there is a potential for confusion.

On a line that runs from East to West - North is always North and South is always South.

 

[Class 170101]

I think 357’s can be turned around at Ilford if going for wheel lathe & repainting if I’m correct.

Not possible, unless taken off route. The nearest place for that would be Stratford, Channelsea Jn (reverse at Temple Mills), Carpenders Road Curve. Not aware of any c2c driver signing this route though.

 

[357]

Not possible, unless taken off route. The nearest place for that would be Stratford, Channelsea Jn (reverse at Temple Mills), Carpenders Road Curve. Not aware of any c2c driver signing this route though.

Correct. The furthest they sign onto West Anglia is platform 11/12 at Stratford.

 

[720144]

Not possible, unless taken off route. The nearest place for that would be Stratford, Channelsea Jn (reverse at Temple Mills), Carpenders Road Curve. Not aware of any c2c driver signing this route though.

I’ve just noticed on rtt, 5Q50 from East Ham to Ilford depot going via Temple mills loop & High meads junction running now. Not showing which 357 it is ?

 

[720_Aventra]

I’ve just noticed on rtt, 5Q50 from East Ham to Ilford depot going via Temple mills loop & High meads junction running now. Not showing which 357 it is ?

5Q50 was 720603 from a tweet on Twitter looks like it's having repairs done.

 

[720144]

5Q50 was 720603 from a tweet on Twitter looks like it's having repairs done.

Thanks. I was wondering what happened to that particular unit, was last reported in service on 28th April according to live rail record. As of the 12th of August, 603 has since returned into service back in correct formation.

 

[trainstrainstr]

Just to return to this, as someone who has followed FOI patterns for a while. It has nothing to do with the DfT. One particular individual at LNER started posting diagrams proactively in 2019? 2020 on WDTK and they started to do the same at TPE. FOI has been centralised at the owning group and so they've seen the benefit of adopting that pattern.

NOTE: I tried to quote a previous reply about the DfT and posting diagrams/timetables on previous page but have failed miserably

 

[Mikey C]

C2C have sponsored Southend United for another season, below from Southend United‘s website.

“c2c and Southend United have today proudly announced the continuation of their Platinum Partnership which will see c2c as the club’s front of shirt partner again for the 2025/26 season”

The Journey Continues: Southend United and c2c announce continuation of partnership

The official website of Southend United FC

www.southendunited.co.uk

The announcement of the renewal was on the 4th July (the link) so only 2 weeks before nationalisation. If this the sort of commercial deal that would have had to be approved by GBR/DfT?

 

[Benjwri]

The Journey Continues: Southend United and c2c announce continuation of partnership

The official website of Southend United FC

www.southendunited.co.uk

The announcement of the renewal was on the 4th July (the link) so only 2 weeks before nationalisation. If this the sort of commercial deal that would have had to be approved by GBR/DfT?

Every financial decision has been at the management of the DfT for far longer than that. This renewal most certainly will have been.

 

[720144]

Saw 720601 this morning. I believe the Trenitalia vinyls are gone from all units, but can't be certain.

The trenitalia stickers have now officially been removed off the very last unit in which was 720606.

 

[StephenHunter]

Can't say I've seen any further signs of GBR in the last few days.

 

[ollyexe2808]

Can't say I've seen any further signs of GBR in the last few days.

I think it will all be a bit quiet now until the introduction of the Railways Bill (probably in October). I can imagine they will coincide Greater Anglia's return to the public sector to news about the white paper potentially

 

[720144]

Can't say I've seen any further signs of GBR in the last few days.

I don’t know what’s happening to the unit (720601) that’s holding the GBR vinyl’s ? haven’t seen it out on the network for about 3 weeks.