C2C upcoming nationalisation.

[stadler]

With the upcoming nationalisation of C2C next Sunday in exactly one week (20/07/2025) i thought that it would be good to start a thread discussing this.

I believe this will be the last privatised service:

00:41 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness 01:45

I believe this will be the first nationalised service:

05:40 Shoeburyness to London Fenchurch Street 06:44

So both in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Are we likely to see any official C2C nationalisation launch event or any government officials turning up for the first services? Or was that a one off for SWR as they were the first to be nationalised under the current government?

Also have all the Trenitalia logos been removed yet or has anyone seen any trains that still have them? I am presuming they will all have to be gone by next week?

 

[GooseWaffe]

I’ve just left a nationalised company to work for a privatised one (my start date is today) and i’ll only have 6 days before it’s privatised again

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Jul 2025 ==

With the upcoming nationalisation of C2C next Sunday in exactly one week (20/07/2025) i thought that it would be good to start a thread discussing this.

I believe this will be the last privatised service:

00:41 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness 01:45

I believe this will be the first nationalised service:

05:40 Shoeburyness to London Fenchurch Street 06:44

So both in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Are we likely to see any official C2C nationalisation launch event or any government officials turning up for the first services? Or was that a one off for SWR as they were the first to be nationalised under the current government?

Also have all the Trenitalia logos been removed yet or has anyone seen any trains that still have them? I am presuming they will all have to be gone by next week?

I would assume that until they go in for service or overhaul they’ll keep the Trenitalia logos, SWR are still flying around with First Group and MTR branding

 

[chris11256]

I think the Trenitalia logos are going, just boarded 357 009 and they’ve gone. Watched another unit going the other way and that also had them removed.

 

[jamster47]

I saw a unit yesterday with Trenitalia logos on but think it was an outlier as most seem to be gone.
Be nice to think there will be some event to mark the moment and a unit with some new vinyls albeit probably only stating GBR coming soon. I guess if no event then the day will pass fairly inconspicuously.

 

[GooseWaffe]

With the upcoming nationalisation of C2C next Sunday in exactly one week (20/07/2025) i thought that it would be good to start a thread discussing this.

I believe this will be the last privatised service:

00:41 London Fenchurch Street to Shoeburyness 01:45

I believe this will be the first nationalised service:

05:40 Shoeburyness to London Fenchurch Street 06:44

So both in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Are we likely to see any official C2C nationalisation launch event or any government officials turning up for the first services? Or was that a one off for SWR as they were the first to be nationalised under the current government?

Also have all the Trenitalia logos been removed yet or has anyone seen any trains that still have them? I am presuming they will all have to be gone by next week?

A small update.
When the nationalisation happens, anything referencing TrenItalia will be removed.

Regarding the 357’s, the units with the (beautiful) new livery won’t have TrenItalia applied.

 

[StephenHunter]

I see that they've stuck a GBR sticker on one of the 720s.

c2c train services to be brought into public ownership from this weekend

Government plans will see c2c services running between Fenchurch Street and Shoebury transferred to public ownership.

uk.news.yahoo.com

Train services across Essex will be publicly-owned from this weekend as c2c’s services become the next to be brought into public ownership.

From Sunday, July 20, Government plans will see c2c services running between Fenchurch Street and Shoebury transferred to public ownership.

 

[800Travel]

I see that they've stuck a GBR sticker on one of the 720s.

c2c train services to be brought into public ownership from this weekend

Government plans will see c2c services running between Fenchurch Street and Shoebury transferred to public ownership.

uk.news.yahoo.com

I don’t get why the gov seems to do the media blitz at such short notice for these transfers

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

About the only change in operation I can see from the announcement is that passengers of c2c, as a DFTO operator, can use other DFTO operators in times of disruption.
That won't mean much locally until GA comes into the DFTO fold.
Reference in the DfT announcement says that Northern and TPE passengers can travel "with a single booking".
I've no idea what that means, as interavailable tickets have always been available from either TOC (and others).

London to Essex c2c services return to public control in step towards Great British Railways

c2c’s rail services to be brought into public ownership.

www.gov.uk

Public ownership puts passengers back at the heart of the rail network. Passengers can use their tickets on another publicly owned operator at no extra cost during disruption, and passengers in the north are now making journeys across Northern and TransPennine Express with just one booking, with over 15,000 journeys estimated to be booked this way since June 2024.

Franchises have always been in public ownership and under DfT control, just contracted out competitively every 7-ish years.
c2c seems to be keeping its Trenitalia MD (Rob Mullen), so not even any management changes.
The Trenitalia version had recently "been consistently rated as one of the best performing TOCs, reaching high customer satisfaction ratings of 89%".
Privatisation earlier lifted the LT&S operation out of "misery line" status with a 15-year franchise including complete rolling stock replacement and infrastructure upgrade.

 

[RUK]

I wonder why the legal Government-owned company that it’s being transferred to is still called c2c, rather than something like LT&S, or maybe Essex Thameside?

 

[Kite159]

About the only change in operation I can see from the announcement is that passengers of c2c, as a DFTO operator, can use other DFTO operators in times of disruption.
That won't mean much locally until GA comes into the DFTO fold.
Reference in the DfT announcement says that Northern and TPE passengers can travel "with a single booking".
I've no idea what that means, as interavailable tickets have always been available from either TOC (and others).

London to Essex c2c services return to public control in step towards Great British Railways

c2c’s rail services to be brought into public ownership.

www.gov.uk

Franchises have always been in public ownership and under DfT control, just contracted out competitively every 7-ish years.
c2c seems to be keeping its Trenitalia MD (Rob Mullen), so not even any management changes.
The Trenitalia version had recently "been consistently rated as one of the best performing TOCs, reaching high customer satisfaction ratings of 89%".
Privatisation earlier lifted the LT&S operation out of "misery line" status with a 15-year franchise including complete rolling stock replacement and infrastructure upgrade.

Especially considering C2C doesn't overlap with other NR operators (other than GA between Liverpool Street & Stratford at weekends)

 

[swt_passenger]

I wonder why the legal Government-owned company that it’s being transferred to is still called c2c, rather than something like LT&S, or maybe Essex Thameside?

See also LNER, SWR, Northern, Southeastern and I think that’s the answer…

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

See also LNER, SWR, Northern, Southeastern and I think that’s the answer…

No doubt they will all stay as now until GBR gets legal status and rebrands everything into whatever regionalised structure is decided.
The "Avanti" name might have to be removed.

 

[swt_passenger]

No doubt they will all stay as now until GBR gets legal status and rebrands everything into whatever regionalised structure is decided.

Yes I‘d assume the 20th will be a similar non-event to the last one at SWR…

 

[RUK]

See also LNER, SWR, Northern, Southeastern and I think that’s the answer…

But Avanti and East Midlands Railway have different names for the legal operating companies which will take them over:

I think all the brands will be treated as genericized trademarks, where the public are used to them and the new owners can’t be bothered to change it.

Diamond Geezer has collected a list of the DfT holding companies in today's post. http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.com/2025/05/rail-renationalisation-lists.html
This suggests that the name C2C will stay, but Avanti and EMR won't.

DFT Holding Companies
DFT OLR1 LIMITED: now LONDON NORTH EASTERN RAILWAY LIMITED
DFT OLR2 LIMITED: now SE TRAINS LIMITED
DFT OLR3 LIMITED: now NORTHERN TRAINS LIMITED
DFT OLR4 LIMITED: now GREATER WESTERN RAILWAY LIMITED
DFT OLR5 LIMITED: now SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY LIMITED
DFT OLR6 LIMITED: now CROSS COUNTRY RAIL LIMITED
DFT OLR7 LIMITED: now C2C RAILWAY LIMITED
DFT OLR8 LIMITED: now RAILWAY WEST COAST LIMITED
DFT OLR9 LIMITED: now GA TRAINS LIMITED
DFT OLR10 LIMITED: now TRANSPENNINE TRAINS LIMITED
DFT OLR11 LIMITED: now CHILTERN RAIL LIMITED
DFT OLR12 LIMITED: now WM TRAINS LIMITED
DFT OLR13 LIMITED: now MIDLANDS EAST TRAINS LIMITED
DFT OLR14 LIMITED: now THAMESLINK SOUTHERN GREAT NORTHERN LIMITED

 

[pokemonsuper9]

But Avanti and East Midlands Railway have different names for the legal operating companies which will take them over:

Are we sure it's not just "Midlands East Trains Limited" because "East Midlands [Trains/Railway] Limited" are already taken?
Makes sense to get rid of Avanti though.

 

[RUK]

Are we sure it's not just "Midlands East Trains Limited" because "East Midlands [Trains/Railway] Limited" are already taken?
Makes sense to get rid of Avanti though.

Presumably, yes, that’s the reason. But what I mean is that it’s “Midlands East Trains” rather than “Midlands East Railway”, so c2c could have been changed to something different, too.

 

[midland1]

But Avanti and East Midlands Railway have different names for the legal operating companies which will take them over:

Midlands East Trains sounds all back to front

 

[Bletchleyite]

The company name is not necessarily the brand. For instance I am fairly sure Virgin operated under a company called West Coast Trains Ltd.

 

[Bishopstone]

With c2c fares from Southend to London traditionally being lower than those of Greater Anglia from Southend Victoria, there was/is a long-standing reluctance to let c2c customers use GA services during engineering work, or at times of disruption.

It will be interesting to see what happens on this front once both entities are in public hands.

 

[RailWonderer]

Presumably, yes, that’s the reason. But what I mean is that it’s “Midlands East Trains” rather than “Midlands East Railway”, so c2c could have been changed to something different, too.

Years ago C2C said their name could stand for so many things, city to country, capital to coast, commitment to customers. Most operators have generic names because they operate a variety of different routes in a region, C2C is such a small, self contained operation it should keep its brandname.

 

[vuzzeho]

Okay, shocked to see the GBR c2c 720. Well, not shocked, just surprised they did it a few days early. I do have a few questions though - what unit has received the sticker? And with c2c being pretty good, will all units eventually receive the stickers? And another question - what about the 'to be repainted' 357s?

 

[RUK]

Okay, shocked to see the GBR c2c 720. Well, not shocked, just surprised they did it a few days early. I do have a few questions though - what unit has received the sticker? And with c2c being pretty good, will all units eventually receive the stickers? And another question - what about the 'to be repainted' 357s?

I think they’ll probably just have a single unit at each TOC which gets this “Coming soon” sticker upon re-nationalisation to save money, until they’ve decided on the GBR livery, which probably won’t happen for quite a while, maybe not until after all the TOCs have been re-nationalised - so the 357s will most likely continue being repainted into the livery that they’re already getting now - the new livery already lacks the Trenitalia stickers, and the new livery’s still mostly white, with some magenta stickers on them.

 

[OneOfThe48]

I wonder why the legal Government-owned company that it’s being transferred to is still called c2c, rather than something like LT&S, or maybe Essex Thameside?

C2C, despite not being an obviously 'local' name, is still memorable for the public and they are generally well thought of. Why would you change the name?

 

[Jaydubya]

When c2c and Greater Anglia were operated by the same company previously there used to be a preference during engineering works for rail replacement bus services between Billericay/Wickford and Laindon rather than to Newbury Park. Wonder if that will change.

 

[styles]

The company name is not necessarily the brand. For instance I am fairly sure Virgin operated under a company called West Coast Trains Ltd.

The real reason imo.

Changing the legal entity name is just not a priority.

Even less so when 'GBR' is being rolled out and there's a chance of a wider shake-up of legal structures.

 

[dk1]

Years ago C2C said their name could stand for so many things, city to country, capital to coast, commitment to customers. Most operators have generic names because they operate a variety of different routes in a region, C2C is such a small, self contained operation it should keep its brandname.

It was Commitment to Customers that turned my stomach at the time. Sounds so cheesy it’s awful.

 

[AJDesiro]

The company name is not necessarily the brand. For instance I am fairly sure Virgin operated under a company called West Coast Trains Ltd.

And Avanti is "First Trenitatlia West Coast Rail".

 

[Southend Rider]

C2C have sponsored Southend United for another season, below from Southend United‘s website.

“c2c and Southend United have today proudly announced the continuation of their Platinum Partnership which will see c2c as the club’s front of shirt partner again for the 2025/26 season”

 

[TheLastMinute]

Changing the legal entity name is just not a priority.

Technically, it's not a name change but rather a change of legal entity that operates the business.

Up until 0200 on 25 May 2025, SWR was legally formed by a company named First MTR South Western Trains Limited that was majority owned by FirstGroup through First Rail Holdings.

The actual act of nationalisation at 0200 was the transfer of all SWR "franchise assets" and staff "TUPE-ing" to South Western Railway Limited, the new company owned by Dft Operator Limited and, ultimately, the Secretary of State. Franchise assets include anything and everything connected with operation of the train service including the stock hire agreements, operational knowledge and processes, Network Rail contracts, IT solutions and equipment, good will, stationary, the SWR brand itself, commercial agreements, everything. The real-world effect of the legal change itself is practically non-existent aside from head office staff having to amend contracts and legal ownership information as needed.

Although First MTR South Western Trains Limited are no longer operating trains, it will still exist as a legal entity owned by FirstGroup for some time. This is to ensure that lingering contractual liabilities will be picked up by the previous operating group and either resolved or passed on to the new company.

 

[W-on-Sea]

By any measure c2c is a successful and well-regarded (and especially by people who remember what the line was like before...., well-liked) brand. If there is nothing preventing it's continuation (copyright, for example), surely it would be perverse to abandon it?

SNCF are happy to have plenty of brand names, why shouldn't GBR?