c2c - Guiding Passengers away from Services

[transportphoto]

I have just received a reply from c2c after a complaint to them about their services advertised as going one place and actually going to another.

Back in early February - I was traveling from [stn]Barking[/stn][stn]BKG[/stn] to [stn]Chafford Hundred[/stn] for Lakeside [stn]CFH[/stn] and the departure boards said [stn]Stanford-Le-Hope[/stn] via [stn]Ockendon[/stn]. When the train arrived on the platform the destination 'dot-matrix' screen said [stn]Southend Central[/stn]. Clearly the wrong destination (to someone who does not know their trick)
So this left the station and formed the 0935 to [stn]Southend Central[/stn] calling at [stn]CFH[/STN] without us. As we were sitting on the platform having a quiet argument between us because we did board the train then had to run off through the closing doors.

When the 1005 arrived we took the risk as the destination board was the same as previously. When the unit arrived [stn]Upminster[/stn] the Auto PA said 'change here for service towards [stn]Ockendon[/stn] and [stn]Chafford Hundred[/stn] for Lakeside Shopping' and the bit about travelcards & oyster PAYG not being valid beyond this stop. Which was also wrong because OYSTER PAYG is valid to [stn]CHF[/stn].

We again risked it and stayed on the service and as expected we arrived at on the [stn]Ockendon[/stn] branch line. Calling at [stn]CFH[/stn].

c2c said:

However, on the indicator boards it is advertised as the train to [stn]Stanford-le-Hope[/stn] to guide customers away from travelling on these services.

...going on to the end of the letter...

I do apologise for the incorrect announcement and assure you that this has been reported to the appropriate department for investigation.

and then the standard closing from NXEA Customer Relations doubling up as c2c's Customer Relations.

 

[thefab444]

The usage of "false destinations" to deter passengers from using slower services is quite common (for example, at Reading, Didcot Parkway and Oxford all slow services to Paddington are advertised as Ealing Broadway).

Surely there were automated announcements on the platforms? Did you, like so many other passengers, not listen to these?

 

[transportphoto]

Yes - we did listen.

It was these and the platform departure screens (same system) saying one thing and the train itself (different system) saying another.

 

[Ivo]

The usage of "false destinations" to deter passengers from using slower services is quite common (for example, at Reading, Didcot Parkway and Oxford all slow services to Paddington are advertised as Ealing Broadway).

Surely there were automated announcements on the platforms? Did you, like so many other passengers, not listen to these?

Whilst I appreciate the strong feelings of many passengers in this situation, I do agree with the above quote. In fact, at Reading such trains are advertised as terminating at Ealing Broadway, but the last screen informs passengers that they do continue to Paddington. In this instance, all off-peak c2c services that operate east of Grays terminate at either Southend Central or Shoeburyness; main-line services run through to SRY. Most trains on the Ockendon branch, including all off-peak services, terminate at SOC. This is even advised in the timetable (or, at least, it was last I knew, and that would have been the latter half of last year). As for the Oyster cards issue, I shall watch for this come Friday when I go home for the weekend (i.e. to Southend).

One other example I will give regarding "false destinations" is South West Trains. If you use a Kingston or Hounslow Loop service, the on-platform destination changes as the train progresses. Clockwise Kingston Loop services, for instance, first run to "Teddington" (or "Strawberry Hill", I forget which), then "Richmond" and then finally Waterloo. I will admit that I used to believe that trains could terminate at Teddington for this reason (for all I know, they may be able to).

 

[EM2]

I had this in reverse when going from Barking to Pitsea. All the info I had checked before leaving told me I needed a particular train but when I got to Barking, all the info (except the printed timetable) showed that train only going to Stanford. In the end, I decided to take it and change at Stanford if needed, but had no need to in the end.

 

[MCR247]

SWT do that a Brockenhurst with Poole stoppers, the one I was on said Farnborough I think

 

[flymo]

I remember years ago the "Cleveland Executive", an HST (1630?) from KX to Newcastle via the Durham Coast was always advertised on the boards at KX as only going to Sunderland when in fact it continued to Newcastle. I appreciate this was to deter passengers for Newcastle from taking the slower service. I took this more than once and despite taking about an hour longer to get to Newcastle was a fantastic journey.

Aren't slow journeys to Cambridge from KX shown as Foxton to differentiate them from the "Cruisers" even today?

 

[Ivo]

I remember years ago the "Cleveland Executive", an HST (1630?) from KX to Newcastle via the Durham Coast was always advertised on the boards at KX as only going to Sunderland when in fact it continued to Newcastle. I appreciate this was to deter passengers for Newcastle from taking the slower service. I took this more than once and despite taking about an hour longer to get to Newcastle was a fantastic journey.

Aren't slow journeys to Cambridge from KX shown as Foxton to differentiate them from the "Cruisers" even today?

They are indeed.

 

[thefab444]

SWT do that a Brockenhurst with Poole stoppers, the one I was on said Farnborough I think

Yeah, they're shown as Farnborough at Poole, Bournemouth, Pokesdown, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst and Southampton Airport Parkway.

With regards to the various loop services, SWT advertise clockwise Kingston loop services as Strawberry Hill (Waterloo to Clapham), Richmond (Earlsfield to Norbiton?), and then London Waterloo (from Kingston onwards), anti-clockwise Kingston loop services are shown as Teddington (Waterloo to Clapham), Wimbledon (Wandsworth Town to Twickenham?) and then London Waterloo (from Teddington onwards). The clockwise Hounslow loop services are branded as Chiswick between Richmond and Twickenham.

At Paddington, stopping services to Oxford are branded as Radley or Didcot Parkway (there may be one or two that are Cholsey or Culham, depends what the last stop prior to Oxford is), and stopping services to Reading are branded as Twyford.

 

[madannie77]

Trains on the Leeds to York via Harrogate service used to be advertised as Poppleton on the boards and screens at Leeds. Haven't been to Leeds for a while so I don't know if this is still done.

 

[142094]

Certainly still is, at York they are advertised a terminating at Burley Park, and as you say at Leeds they are shown as going to Poppleton.

You could also say the same for the Liverpool Loop - trains are advertised as going to Liverpool Central on the Wirral Line but when they get to James Street (IIRC) they then change to their terminus destination (Chester, West Kirkby, New Brighton and Ellesmere Port).

 

[aspierail]

In the weekends you get a stopping service to Stevenage via Hertford North from Kings Cross however on the departure boards it says Watton at Stone.

 

[Dave R]

also at Leeds Huddesfield via Halifax trains are advertised as Brighouse

 

[yorksrob]

I can remember it being the case at Gatwick Airport when all non-Gatwick express services were advertised as going to Clapham Junction rather than Victoria. Whilst I can appreciate the benefits of not having loads of airport customers wedging onto London trains from the coast, I seem to remember there being a hoo-ha about it in one of the national newspapers a few years back as the Gatwick Express was I believe, more expensive to travel on than the other services.

 

[Drsatan]

Yeah, they're shown as Farnborough at Poole, Bournemouth, Pokesdown, Christchurch, New Milton, Brockenhurst and Southampton Airport Parkway.

With regards to the various loop services, SWT advertise clockwise Kingston loop services as Strawberry Hill (Waterloo to Clapham), Richmond (Earlsfield to Norbiton?), and then London Waterloo (from Kingston onwards), anti-clockwise Kingston loop services are shown as Teddington (Waterloo to Clapham), Wimbledon (Wandsworth Town to Twickenham?) and then London Waterloo (from Teddington onwards). The clockwise Hounslow loop services are branded as Chiswick between Richmond and Twickenham.

Romsey - Eastleigh - Southampton Central - Romsey - Salisbury services are at Romsey only advertised as going as far as Redbridge; services travelling in the opposite direction from Romsey are only advertised as going as far as Chandlers Ford

 

[dan_atki]

Romsey - Eastleigh - Southampton Central - Romsey - Salisbury services are at Romsey only advertised as going as far as Redbridge; services travelling in the opposite direction from Romsey are only advertised as going as far as Chandlers Ford

Things have changed at Salisbury with regards to these as well.

They used to be on screens and announced as 'Chandlers Ford'. This was changed in announcements last summer to 'Chandlers Ford via Southampton Central'. Both were equally fine.

Last weekend however, I noticed they were on the boards as 'Romsey' (showing all stations via Soton) and announced only as going to 'Southampton Central' (!!). Now that is a bit misleading for customers for stations St Denys to Chandlers Ford as the direct train is the fastest route to get there!

 

[jon0844]

Aren't slow journeys to Cambridge from KX shown as Foxton to differentiate them from the "Cruisers" even today?

Yes, or at least when they'll arrive AFTER the cruiser would have arrived - so at some times of the day there's a chance they'll be still shown as Cambridge.

It makes sense to do this, and it only 'affects' those people going to Cambridge who might find the fast train is wedged, and not realise that a slower train (which isn't THAT much slower) is available nearby that could be half-empty.

Now, if I look up my train to Hatfield and see it online as the, say, 1606 to Cambridge (or look it up in a paper timetable) then there's the chance that I might get confused because the boards are showing 1606 to Foxton and no train at all matching what I've got on my phone/printout/timetable. At this point, I might need to ask someone who will explain and then I know from then on.

 

[dan_atki]

Now, if I look up my train to Hatfield and see it online as the, say, 1606 to Cambridge (or look it up in a paper timetable) then there's the chance that I might get confused because the boards are showing 1606 to Foxton and no train at all matching what I've got on my phone/printout/timetable. At this point, I might need to ask someone who will explain and then I know from then on.

A worse problem occurs at 2003 and 2103 at Southampton Airport when these are advertised as Farnborough like throughout the rest of the day.

The thing here is that these trains also call at Woking (after Farnborough), which the 2008 and 2108 do not...

 

[jon0844]

FCC has a few odd stopping patterns, with Potters Bar being skipped on some semi-fast services. If you merely check the summary of departure screens (of which there are many at King's Cross) then you may well make that mistake.

Mind you, yesterday there were two trains from platform 10, 10A was to Hertford North and 10B was to Cambridge.

Normally, the Cambridge service wouldn't be announced until the train in front has left - so there's no confusion (the doors would remain locked on the rear set). However, yesterday the train in front had left, but was still up on the screen. Anyone rushing to the train would have seen 10A but wouldn't necessarily realise and board the now unlocked service to Cambridge - thinking it was going to Hertford North (when they saw platform 10 - why would they look down the list of departures to see if there was another service from there?).

When you automate all the information, you do have to make sure you're not creating a setup that can mislead or confuse people who might already be confused enough as it is.

 

[317666]

At KGX, normally Cambridge stoppers are displayed as 'Foxton' and semi-fasts as 'Royston'. At Cambridge, both are displayed as 'Finsbury Park'.

 

[Ivo]

Here's one I've noticed at my "new" local station (i.e. Bath Spa). SWT services obviously take longer to reach London than FGW services (159 to Waterloo as opposed to HST to Paddington). In spite of the time difference though, even the SWT services are shown as terminating at Waterloo, which is fair considering the terminus is different. But immediately beneath the SWT service in the display (entrance hall monitors, not the automated platform things) is a line of text saying "Continues to London Waterloo"! You mean to say that it continues beyond Waterloo, to Waterloo?!

 

[Mojo]

Here's one I've noticed at my "new" local station (i.e. Bath Spa). SWT services obviously take longer to reach London than FGW services (159 to Waterloo as opposed to HST to Paddington). In spite of the time difference though, even the SWT services are shown as terminating at Waterloo, which is fair considering the terminus is different. But immediately beneath the SWT service in the display (entrance hall monitors, not the automated platform things) is a line of text saying "Continues to London Waterloo"! You mean to say that it continues beyond Waterloo, to Waterloo?!

It always used to be the case (certaintly when I saw those trains often (2005-2007)) that they were advertised as terminating at Salisbury, where they would join another train, and then "Continues to London Waterloo" appeared after. It could just be a hangover from those days that the services have "Continues to London Waterloo" in the system, but they are now advertised as through-services.