By God - Those Class 331s Are Fast!

[fkofilee]

Travelled on a 331 for the 1st time today between Manx Oxford Road & Bolton...
Once past Salford Crescent - They floor it!

Are these the fastest accelerating trains in the UK I wonder?

 

[py_megapixel]

Not quite, but close. We had a thread on this which established that the Greater Anglia FLIRTs and the Thameslink 700s are slightly quicker.

From an acceleration point of view, they're certainly an upgrade on a 319, and a good chunk better than a 323, which were at one point considered very fast indeed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not quite, but close. We had a thread on this which established that the Greater Anglia FLIRTs and the Thameslink 700s are slightly quicker.

From an acceleration point of view, they're certainly an upgrade on a 319, and a good chunk better than a 323, which were at one point considered very fast indeed.

323s probably give the impression that they beat them due to sounding like a racing car

 

[fkofilee]

I did once watch a video on the 323 running on the CC Line and they do have some wellie to them... But I didnt realise that the Class 700 (My Actual Home Station Rolling Stock) was quicker ¬_¬

 

[D365]

323s probably give the impression that they beat them due to sounding like a racing car

Formula E

 

[hexagon789]

Travelled on a 331 for the 1st time today between Manx Oxford Road & Bolton...
Once past Salford Crescent - They floor it!

Are these the fastest accelerating trains in the UK I wonder?

Just shy of it, but they've plenty of power. Far more than you need for just 100mph running but I'm sure drivers are very pleased with the performance compared to the Mk3-family EMUs

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, 331s shoot off like scalded cars from Bolton when you've been conditioned to years of Sprinter acceleration.

 

[fkofilee]

Wait... So next time I should get a ticket to a destination further than Bolton?

 

[Trackman]

Not quite, but close. We had a thread on this which established that the Greater Anglia FLIRTs and the Thameslink 700s are slightly quicker.

From an acceleration point of view, they're certainly an upgrade on a 319, and a good chunk better than a 323, which were at one point considered very fast indeed.

For comparison with a 319, Wikipedia says:

The 331 electric units are noted for their quick acceleration putting them among the fastest accelerating EMUs in the United Kingdom with a rate of 1.3 m/s2.This allows the units to accelerate from 0 to 125 km/h (77 mph) in 45 seconds - by comparison, the ex-British Rail Class 319/321/322 units have an acceleration rate of 0.55 m/s2 and which takes them over 2 minutes to attain the same speed.

I wonder what the timing is between Bolton and Salford Crescent with these, 8 mins?

 

[fkofilee]

Based upon today - I managed it in 7 mins on the return back from Bolton to Salford Crescent.

 

[CAF397]

And that's with a short temporary speed restriction of 75mph south of Kearsley.

 

[Halish Railway]

And that's with a short temporary speed restriction of 75mph south of Kearsley.

Temporary? Its been there for over a year!

 

[Mag_seven]

The Class 800s (plus variants 801/802 etc) are pretty quick off the mark in electric mode.

 

[bspahh]

Not quite, but close. We had a thread on this which established that the Greater Anglia FLIRTs and the Thameslink 700s are slightly quicker.

I think you might be referring to this post:

Fastest Accelerating MUs in the UK

The 755 will soon pass it even if it does accelerate any faster as it will crawl along at 75mph. Yeah, they are designed for frequent stops though so the acceleration is more important. Correction, 777s will be the same acceleration as the 755/4s on electric (1.1m/s) looking at the 755...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[BigGB]

They were even faster off the mark before drivers got told to stop driving them like they were stolen

 

[Bigman]

I was on a 331 heading from Donny to Leeds a year ago. We left Wakey Westgate and absolutely flew it up the hill to Outwood. I reckon we were doing line speed by the time we passed Wrenthorpe. A good old 91 would have trouble getting to 50 by then. So yes, absolute brown stuff off the shovel.

 

[Neptune]

The 3 car units are a lot quicker than the 4 car units as they have the same power with a TSO’s worth of less weight.

Drivers have been told to reign in the acceleration though as it was sending standees flying, although they are still quick with less power being used.

333’s aren’t the slowest but 20 years technological advancement leaves them standing. It was noticeable how much slower a 4 car 333 was of the mark after they were extended from 3 cars.

 

[northernchris]

The 3 car units are a lot quicker than the 4 car units as they have the same power with a TSO’s worth of less weight.

Drivers have been told to reign in the acceleration though as it was sending standees flying, although they are still quick with less power being used.

333’s aren’t the slowest but 20 years technological advancement leaves them standing. It was noticeable how much slower a 4 car 333 was of the mark after they were extended from 3 cars.

I've noticed on the Airedale line the 331s are much better at keeping to time than the 333s. It's quite common for 333s to be a couple of minutes late, but more often than not the 331s end up waiting for time

 

[py_megapixel]

it was sending standees flying

Can confirm... this happened to me the first time I was standing on one....

 

[Neptune]

Can confirm... this happened to me the first time I was standing on one....

Lack of grab rails in the doorways which are designed for more standees I’m guessing!

 

[AM9]

... Drivers have been told to reign in the acceleration though as it was sending standees flying, although they are still quick with less power being used.

Maybe they should have their maximum acceleration rate capped in the traction control software, they are there for transporting passengers rather than as a sports activity for drivers and enthusiasts.

... 333’s aren’t the slowest but 20 years technological advancement leaves them standing. It was noticeable how much slower a 4 car 333 was of the mark after they were extended from 3 cars.

Not so much technology, more a case of a higher power to weight ratio.

 

[fkofilee]

Maybe they should have their maximum acceleration rate capped in the traction control software, they are there for transporting passengers rather than as a sports activity for drivers and enthusiasts.

But figure this - A full load of passengers on each car accordingly should offset (Including Standing) the acceleration vs weight surely? Capping the Acc would cause issues with timings etc?
Running with a few passengers during current situations - That I can understand though...

 

[Domh245]

But figure this - A full load of passengers on each car accordingly should offset (Including Standing) the acceleration vs weight surely? Capping the Acc would cause issues with timings etc?
Running with a few passengers during current situations - That I can understand though...

Given a 3 car train has a normal weight of ~125t and a capacity of 345 passengers (including standing), assuming an average weight of 75kg you'd increase weight by 25t (20%) with a fully laden train.

That's rather by the by though, as the train should have sensors that will tell it how heavy it is/how many people are on board (even sprinters have this IIRC) - it shouldn't be beyond the capabilities of the manufacturer to limit the power based on it's own self measured mass to achieve a consistent, comfortable, acceleration

 

[Mat17]

333’s aren’t the slowest but 20 years technological advancement leaves them standing. It was noticeable how much slower a 4 car 333 was of the mark after they were extended from 3 cars.

The 333s just seem soldier, better quality somehow, and comfier than a 331, to my mind at least.

 

[py_megapixel]

Well, there are a few members on here who describe the 195s as "Poor-man's Turbostars". Would that make the 331s "Poor-man's Electrostars"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 333s just seem soldier, better quality somehow, and comfier than a 331, to my mind at least.

They have a very German feel to them, I find.

Well, there are a few members on here who describe the 195s as "Poor-man's Turbostars". Would that make the 331s "Poor-man's Electrostars"?

Poor-man's Desiro certainly. (And 350s are as quick off the mark as you'd want them to be - they've certainly knocked me flying before). The Electrostar is a bit naff compared to the 350.

 

[D365]

The 333s just seem soldier, better quality somehow, and comfier than a 331, to my mind at least.

Until you look under the solebar

 

[Domh245]

Until you look under the solebar

Isn't that something you can do from the comfort of the passenger saloon these days?

 

[py_megapixel]

Isn't that something you can do from the comfort of the passenger saloon these days?

I don't think the corrosion is quite that bad....

 

[HSP 2]

The 333s just seem soldier, better quality somehow, and comfier than a 331, to my mind at least.

I think that the ride quality is better on the 333s over the 331s. I think that this is due to the 333 bogies having outside bearings, all of the CAF stock that I've rode on with the inside bearing seem to be a bit on the hard side, I've put this down to the axle bearing been closer together so not having as much movement before hitting the stops, it could also be that they have harder dampers as well.