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BVE Meeting Up Venue

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intercity125

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hi just wanted to know if anyone has thought about a meeting up venue so that people could discuss stuff e.g the past, the present and the future of bve etc.

hope to hear from u.
 
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Tom

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The LTM has a depot which has exhibitions once or twice a year, last time was a week or so back for the Acton depot, Transport in Miniature where BVE was demonstrated and worked as a mini meet-up.
 

Coxster

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Of course there is always the forums where you can discuss BVE, and with a hell of a lot more people than would meet up somewhere.
 
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Tom

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See the Forum Meets section ... you could meet some BVE players on that, but generally just general railway photography or bashing meets.
 

Coxster

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so u would perfer using this forums than meeting up with people??
I'd be up for any meets, I'm just saying that a meet designed simply to talk about a simulator may not get a huge turnout. If you come on a general meet then there is usually a few BVE fans that turn up (a lot of people use BVE on this forum). Of course if you want then feel free to create a thread in the meets section :)
 

ChrisCooper

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It's important to remember that the UK BVE community has members from all around the country, and the BVE community as a whole is international, so the changes of a lot of people being able to get together in one place is quite small, particularly since people have school, work, family etc commitments. It's particularly the case if it's just meeting up about BVE. Oviously, rail events tend to attract lots of people, and there is a chance for those involved with BVE to meet up, and with things like Acton it's possible to set up demostrations of BVE, but it's likely only a few people would be involved, the majority would probably just stop a few minutes to show their face and perhaps have a play (particularly if something is being demonstrated that hasn't been publically released), but the main reason for them being there would be whatever the event was, with BVE coming second. As has been said, the forums, of which there are quite a few, provide a good opertunity for people to get together and discuss BVE when it's convienient to them and without having to leave their home.
 

Dennis

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hi just wanted to know if anyone has thought about a meeting up venue so that people could discuss stuff e.g the past, the present and the future of bve etc.

hope to hear from u.

I'll discuss those examples without attending a meeting.....

The past; some bright Japanese bloke going by the name of Mackoy developed a great cab view train sim, which although it has some serious limitations, is possibly now the best cab view sim in the world.

The present; a few dozen developers worldwide have taken what Mackoy gave us and have used it to build trains to drive and routes to drive them on.

Using coding skills which are mainly self taught, the developers have been able to create driving experiences superior to any other train sim but their time is limited and the number of routes and trains available remains small.

And here is the important bit....

The future; the BVE developing community needs to grow or it will wither and die. The number of completed (BVE4 UK) routes remains small and the general quality of the routes not as good as it could be in terms of appearance and choice. Put simply, more developers, of both trains and routes, are needed so that a wider audience is captured.

But here lies the problem; the message I get is that a lot of people try their hand at developing routes or trains but soon loose heart at the time and effort it takes.

Failure of route development may be caused by lack of support but equally as often (if not more so) by attempting something overcomplicated as the first effort. Indeed, my personal experience was similar - the first project I undertook was Westbury station - not exactly in the same league for complexity as Paddington, Cardiff or Leeds but almost enough to put me off route development. Fortunately, I had the foresight to admit I was not up to the job and practiced my coding skills on fictional routes instead; I now feel able to tackle 'real routes' after a couple of years coding.

One thought which has crossed my mind more than once is that a preserved railway would make an ideal route to start out on the route development path - imagine a few miles of route which would not have all the signalling complexities associated with main line running, would have decent traction and should be easily accessible in terms of obtaining not only photos needed for object construction but also line diagrams, gradient profiles etc.

I can easily imagine a symbiotic relationship between a preserved railway selling virtual drives on their line (which would improve the BVE audience) and someone developing their coding skills by producing it (and hopefully leading to more 'mainline' runs in the longer term).

Removing the rose tinted specs.....help is available on the forums; just ask questions and yes, BVE developers (and fans) have been known to attend meets - we do like to escape from the keyboard occasionally even if only to photograph brick walls (lovely texture:-P ).
 

eezypeazy

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As ever, an excellent contribution from Dennis.

I, too, think that the preserved railway route is a useful thing to do. My Aln Valley model was done precisely because it was short (three miles and two stations); and it could be used by the Railway to help promote themselves, even though not a single inch of track has yet been laid! The model took me just eight weeks to do to a reasonable standard; another evening recently to add working BVE 4 semaphores.

There is one other aspect of this hobby which I find off putting... that is, the tendency of newbies (in their enthusiasm) to throw up a website promising to build an entirely new four track UK main line, which in time never appears. This, in my opinion, raises the expectations of the user community. I (and others) prefer not to announce routes before construction is well under way. This also helps avoid developers coming under unnecessary pressure to meet deadlines (when, after all, it’s only a hobby!).

I have often pondered how we might grow this fascinating hobby of ours.

The fact that there is little new route building going on is probably not limiting the hobby’s growth. New people come along constantly, joining forums, etc. That few of them start building probably reflects the same proportion of the population as, say, flight sim, or railway modelling (ie., many people buy Hornby sets, few start scratchbuilding). So, on that basis, I think we can expect no more than about half a dozen new UK routes a year.

This still leaves the problem of how to promote BVE. Assuming the proportion of users to developers remains about the same, then we need to recruit (by my guess) something like 200 new users, of whom one will become a developer.

So promoting the hobby is of paramount importance, and really it’s something that every user should consider doing. Tell your mates about it. Use other forums to spread the word.

As a developer, I want people to find and use my work. I’ve added links to Wikipedia entries about the “real life” routes I’ve modelled. I’ve promoted my site in search engines.

When it comes to encouraging developers, then Dennis’s tutorials is the place I point most people to. Some people may prefer the graphical interface of RouteBuilder (the program that got me into developing in the first place!).

Certainly, those people who arrange for BVE to have a physical presence at the LTM should be praised and encouraged.

eezypeazy
 

eezypeazy

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sorry for asking

No, don't be... this post has stimulated some important discussion.

I'm all for meeting up, if the meeting could have some purpose.... what do we want to get out of it?

Is there a point in meeting up somewhere so that we can all learn more about BVE - route building, for instance?

What would people want to get out of such a gathering?

eezypeazy
 

intercity125

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what the point in the meeting up with simsig?? i don't mind organising a meeting up venue cause i want to know how to do a route building it's no good in expaining it to me how to do, it's better for someone to meet me and show me what to do bit by bit.
 

Dennis

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Please think carefully before answering this question...

What would be the exact purpose of the meet you are proposing and why cannot this be done over open forums?
 

LabRatAndy

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What would be discussed and plan be for this meet?
I think that is Dennis's point.
I for one agree to a point with Dennis and others view that why travel half way across the country(or more in some cases). When the discussions etc could be had via this and or other forums, via e-mail, texting etc.
That said I can also see why some people prefer the face to face discussion but given the distance between most of the BVE community this is at best impractical for most. If you where to say give a firm date, time, location, plans, etc for a meet up well in advance of it. Then I think most would at least consider attending it, even if most people could not attend.
 

Dennis

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Apologies for sounding negative but before I sign up to anthing, I like to know what it is. I wouldn't mind meeting up to discuss BVE (coding), finding solutions to problems etc.

However, if anyone is expecting to learn how to code routes of the quality of those currently published, this is not possible in one day and specific areas of interest would need to be identified beforehand. If this is not done, the resultant meet would have no structure and may result in very little being gained from the day.

On the other hand, a less formal meet could encompass a bit of bashing and anyone attending would need to be made aware that the primary aim of the meet is to chat BVE. Don't forget that with the more widespread availability of lap-tops, power points on trains and FC lounges, it is possible to do things 'on the move'.
 

Techniquest

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I would too like to know what the point of a public BVE meet-up would be. Coding help would be a good idea, get hints and tips from those who know what they are doing (which I would find very useful) and such. But all of this sort of thing can pretty much be discussed over the forums.

I agree with the comment made previously in this thread about upcoming routes to be made by new users which never turn up. I do find it rather irritating. Which is why, although I am in development of a route at this time, I will be not make any formal announcements about details of it or whatever for a while yet, not until I've got it really cracked on with. Got a ton to learn yet (point work and signals being just two bits that come to mind), so the route won't be out for months. Then it'll be on a proto-typical route...
 

Dennis

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Regarding the comment about new routes promised and not turning up, it's not confined to noobs; I'm as guilty as anyone, I've got three routes at various stages of completion that I have publicly stated as being under development plus two more that I am involved with.

Also, what about x-city north, possibly one of the most eagerly anticipated routes? The reason so many never reach fruition is the time it takes, particularly if the routes are either over-complicated or incredibly detailed. It is an unfortunate fact of life that for many, BVE is a passing interest and eventually other priorities take-over. I'm completely amazed that Maybank NWM has kept up such a rate of progress over a sustained number of years; hats off them and all the other developers who publish routes and trains.
 

intercity125

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i want to do a route from aberdare to cardiff and no one is giving me advise, don't tell me the details, i know that i am female but i do know a few things about computers and my boyfriend has shown me BVE 4, but i want to help him build a route, so can someone please give me a step-by-step details please, with links, websites anything to help me, also what i need to do. thanks, erica
 

Dennis

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Not wanting to put you off but there is no way I would construct Cardiff Central as part of a first route; it is simply far too complicated. Aberdare to Queen Street would be much more achievable (a would actually make quite a nice route although the lack of a BVE4 142/3 is bit of a drawback).

Before you can start coding any prototypical route, there are some things that will need to be known (and can be obtained from maps and other published sources). As a minimum, the distances between stations, and a gradient profile would be desirable. Curve radii can be estimated from maps reasonably easily (Google Earth being particularly useful for this) if no other references can be found.

For construction of prototypical routes, photos of all the key features such as stations, distinguishing buildings etc will also be needed. These will serve two purposes; provide reference regarding the layout and appearance and also (providing the images are suitable), be used as textures (when the faces which are going to be modelled are ideally photographed free of obstruction and exactly face on).

I would suggest reading tutorials 1.1 - 1.3 of http://www.freewebs.com/dennislance/ as this really is the first steps to route construction; ask questions on an open forum or by PM if there are any bits you don't understand.

For building objects, Luigi Cartello has written an excellent guide which is available at http://bve.altervista.org/guide.html
 
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Wow! We dont get much female members here do we? ;)

If you needed help to start building a route, you could have just made a post about it instead of planning a meet up. We are more than happy to help.

First things first... We welcome new UK routes and would like to see more being built. However, I want to proceed with a warning... I do not want to discourage you but route building is VERY time consuming and it takes many hours to do something little. A decent route can take a year or so to complete and often, results are not as expected and debugging takes up a majority of the time. If you are still up for it, then go ahead and join in the route building community!

There are two ways to build BVE routes, the first method is to use a GUI interface called "Routebuilder" available from http://routebuilder.bve-routes.com/ and the second method is by handcoding (this is the perferred method for most route authors). Handcoding involves writing the route manually by typing in codes.

When I first had an interest n building a route, I tried to use routebuilder, but I found the program unbelievably unintuitive to use and have given up after 6 hours after struggling to make it work. I returned to it a few months later but still I did not understand it. I was about to give up the whole thing until I managed to get a track laid with hand coding and theres where I started.

Theres a few good places to get you started with route building. If you want to have a go at using the GUI program "routebuilder" to build route, you can get it from the link I described above. Theres a manual which covers everything. I did not understand much of the manual so dont be surprised if you dont either.

For hand coding, Dennis has written a set of route building tutorials, if you have not yet seen, you might and to download them from www.freewebs.com/dennislance . He covers everything from track laying to making a functional route.

If you have any questions, please ask.

Good luck!
 

LabRatAndy

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There are two ways to build BVE routes, the first method is to use a GUI interface called "Routebuilder" available from http://routebuilder.bve-routes.com/ and the second method is by handcoding (this is the perferred method for most route authors). Handcoding involves writing the route manually by typing in codes.

When I first had an interest n building a route, I tried to use routebuilder, but I found the program unbelievably unintuitive to use and have given up after 6 hours after struggling to make it work. I returned to it a few months later but still I did not understand it. I was about to give up the whole thing until I managed to get a track laid with hand coding and theres where I started.

Theres a few good places to get you started with route building. If you want to have a go at using the GUI program "routebuilder" to build route, you can get it from the link I described above. Theres a manual which covers everything. I did not understand much of the manual so dont be surprised if you dont either.

I Also Found that Routebuilder is difficult to use and the Manuel I read appears to be from the previous version of Routebuilder. Personally I found Dennis's Tutorials easy to follow, the maths for the converging / diverging tracks took a few hours to get my head around but otherwise it is not that difficult just time consuming. Hopefully Intercity125 now realises that we are not a grumpy old set of weird ohs and that if she requires any advice we will try to give her pointers in the right direction as anyone prepared to take the time to create any route needs encouragement!!!!
 

Techniquest

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Coding is incredibly hard, I can certainly agree with that! Got to be a hand-coded route really, because you know precisely what you are putting into the route!

My current one is a fictional route at 10km, going to extend it for some 125mph opportunities soon, with stations on loops a la Longbridge (best example I can think of) and so forth, but it's working out signalling and pointwork first! Going to download the tutorials that Dennis has done, they seem to be excellent from a quick look!
 

Tom B

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The BVE presence at Acton spawned from a model exhibitor, Jason Berryman, who one year brought a computer or two to the exhibition and ran BVE on it. As the response was such a success, it was repeated each year since on the March weekend. This year was IMO the best yet, we had a large plasma screen connected to a laptop 'behind the scenes', a computer with a joystick for visitors to drive, two other computers set up for visitors/exhibitors to drive via the keyboard, and one monitor controlled from another laptop behind the scenes. It worked pretty well, few things to improve perhaps but it's getting better every year. It's amazing how many people come up, are gob-smacked, then ask "wow, is there something like this that you can buy for your computer at home?". They are then astounded when you tell them that it is a free download, and go away with the Trainsimcentral URL. There's also a few who know about BVE and have a few routes, and there are people from the forums who turn up and say hi. The regular exhibitors vary from route developers through to normal users, anyone can do it really. It does take a bit of organizing - making sure there's enough people to cover the driving, and extras to talk to people / cover breaks, sort out who's bringing what, and even liasing with the grumpy s*d on the security desk for a new table. However it's a fun weekend for all, exhibitors and public alike.
 

Dennis

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The big screen certainly looked amazing - would have been fantastic to have sat in front of it driving.

Bit of an incentive for me to buy a nice, new, big telly!
 
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