Buying tickets from your guard

[strange6]

If you ask for a normal day return from a guard, and he knows of a cheaper ticket that you can buy from him, whatever that may be, do you think that most guards would suggest this cheaper ticket or would they keep their mouth shut and take the bigger fare? Because the vast majority of guards are really friendly, professional people, I would imagine they would suggest the cheaper ticket but some TOC's may prefer the later for more revenue perhaps??

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I've never had that problem. I've often asked for a ticket from a guard, and if there's a cheaper one, they've always suggested it.

 

[Greenback]

In my experience they offer the cheapest alternative, and outline the differences so that the customer can make up their own mind.

As an example, a chap wanted a return from Llanelli to Southampton. Initially he wanted to go via Reading, as he said he had gone that way previously. The guard outlined the restrictions on coming bacl through Reading, and also gave detiasl of the cheaper fare via Bristol and Westbury. Eventually the passenger decided he would get the cheaper ticket, but the transaction took almost the whole journey from Llanelli to Swansea.

Sometimes guards will leave the more complicated tickets until they have more time, and do the local passengers first, but on that particular day the train was very, very quiet!

 

[LexyBoy]

They should (and in my experience most do) sell you the cheapest ticket from your origin to your destination* which allows you to travel on that train (and return when you plan to, if applicable). (Unless you're travelling from a station where you could have bought a ticket, when of course you may only have the choice of an Anytime Single). Most people won't ask for a specific ticket type, just a single/return to X, and will be sold the cheapest suitable ticket.

I find ticket salespeople (both on and off train) will often delve a bit deeper, for instance asking about a return journey when people are asking for a single (usually pointing out that it's no more expensive for a return, or that it doesn't have to be a day return), or asking if the customer holds a Travelcard for London journeys (where a Boundary Zone ticket would be cheaper).

*Offering split tickets or tickets which start or finish beyond the station(s) required by the customer, which may be cheaper, is against guidelines so I doubt many guards would offer these.

 

[Bellwater]

Depends on what the TOC instructs their Guards to do, to be honest, and the staff member's knowledge/judgement.

Certain TOCs download what Guards sell on Avantix Machines and if too many, if any, cheap tickets are being sold use it as a discliplinary tool. others are more relaxed, because at the end of the day, a £1.50 fare is better than no fare at all.

Greenback is spot on regarding complicated tickets, try to do that myself.

 

[strange6]

Certain TOCs download what Guards sell on Avantix Machines and if too many, if any, cheap tickets are being sold use it as a discliplinary tool. others are more relaxed, because at the end of the day, a £1.50 fare is better than no fare at all.


Really???? That's a bit nasty! I wonder which TOC's do this? Would be interesting to find out

 

[wibble]

Really???? That's a bit nasty! I wonder which TOC's do this? Would be interesting to find out

TOCs who operate a Penalty Fares area across their patch.

If the Ticket Office is open and the TVM is working, there is no reason for a customer to but an Off Peak or discounted ticket from the guard. (Unless the ticket type and/or discount was not available at the station the boarded at.) It also leads to inconsistencies in a Penalty Fares area when a customer says "But the guard let me buy a Off Peak/discounted ticket on the train last time..."

 

[Clip]

Not all guards do.. Ive often been visiting folks down south and had the odd day trip to london and been sold a london terminals instead of the cheaper Victoria pricebuster. Mind you its me own fault for not having a priv but it does raise questions about the guards knowledge/ability to sell the cheapest ticket

 

[CarterUSM]

Certain TOCs download what Guards sell on Avantix Machines and if too many, if any, cheap tickets are being sold use it as a discliplinary tool. others are more relaxed, because at the end of the day, a £1.50 fare is better than no fare at all.


Really???? That's a bit nasty! I wonder which TOC's do this? Would be interesting to find out

I almost always offer a cheaper ticket where possible, I will even split tickets - common ones anyway, and advise passengers who have purchased at TVM's or the booking office of cheaper alternatives if possible. It's nice to be nice.

 

[strange6]

TOCs who operate a Penalty Fares area across their patch.

If the Ticket Office is open and the TVM is working, there is no reason for a customer to but an Off Peak or discounted ticket from the guard. (Unless the ticket type and/or discount was not available at the station the boarded at.) It also leads to inconsistencies in a Penalty Fares area when a customer says "But the guard let me buy a Off Peak/discounted ticket on the train last time..."

haaaaaa, didn't think of that. Good enough reason I suppose but it still shows an element of distrust in the guards though.

 

[Dolive22]

haaaaaa, didn't think of that. Good enough reason I suppose but it still shows an element of distrust in the guards though.

No modern business would just trust someone working alone with such opportunity to lose the company money or even pocket it*. Half the reason prices end in .99 is to make the staff open the till to make change, forcing them to ring up the transaction.

BR staff were reputed to have their own unofficial catering concessions going. Sandwiches, drinks etc. in, cash out.

*Issue the cheaper ticket, take the higher fare, plenty of time to skim just the right cash on the journey. The right amount of money is handed in, so it looks fine to the auditors. But the customer and/or TOC is out of pocket and the guard is raking it in.

 

[Greenback]

No modern business would just trust someone working alone with such opportunity to lose the company money or even pocket it*. Half the reason prices end in .99 is to make the staff open the till to make change, forcing them to ring up the transaction.

BR staff were reputed to have their own unofficial catering concessions going. Sandwiches, drinks etc. in, cash out.

*Issue the cheaper ticket, take the higher fare, plenty of time to skim just the right cash on the journey. The right amount of money is handed in, so it looks fine to the auditors. But the customer and/or TOC is out of pocket and the guard is raking it in.

The price is printed on the ticket, so wouldn't it be a big risk that the passenger would notice that they had paid more than was stated?

 

[Scotrail84]

No modern business would just trust someone working alone with such opportunity to lose the company money or even pocket it*. Half the reason prices end in .99 is to make the staff open the till to make change, forcing them to ring up the transaction.

BR staff were reputed to have their own unofficial catering concessions going. Sandwiches, drinks etc. in, cash out.

*Issue the cheaper ticket, take the higher fare, plenty of time to skim just the right cash on the journey. The right amount of money is handed in, so it looks fine to the auditors. But the customer and/or TOC is out of pocket and the guard is raking it in.

Haha aye good yin mate. You wiil find that there are very few people at the lash on the railway and if there is they are usually found out in time. I take you are not a guard as a guard certainly wouldnt come out with something like that

 

[martinsh]

Last week I was on a Crewe - Stafford journey when the passenger opposite me asked for a Crewe - Hampton in Arden single. Thats what he got - even though I'm sure a West Midlands Day Ranger is cheaper. (NB was after morning peak)

 

[reb0118]

[/B]

Haha aye good yin mate. You wiil find that there are very few people at the lash on the railway and if there is they are usually found out in time. I take you are not a guard as a guard certainly wouldnt come out with something like that

Mind, what's his coupon tried that on. I think he was found out guy quickly and wis banjoed.

All occupations hae jaikies & charlatans - jist check oot yon banker laddies!

Forbye that though maist guards widnae risk a well paid job fir a few quid - sheer madness

 

[Greenback]

I don't think it's realistic for a guard to know that a West Midlands Day Ranger is the cheapest fare for such a journey.

 

[Scotrail84]

Mind, what's his coupon tried that on. I think he was found out guy quickly and wis banjoed.

All occupations hae jaikies & charlatans - jist check oot yon banker laddies!

Forbye that though maist guards widnae risk a well paid job fir a few quid - sheer madness

Exactly found oot very quickly.

 

[Flamingo]

Of course, if the passenger started from a station with ticketing facilities available etc etc, the only ticket that they should be sold on-board is the full-priced anytime.

Anything less than that is a bonus, so any complaints that the guard sold me a more expensive ticket, in these cases, is just sour grapes, IMHO.

 

[yorkie]

I agree with Flamingo. It really depends on what the status of the origin station is.

I will back people up who start their journey at an unstaffed station, in that the guard should give them the best possible deal (the guard effectively acts as if he/she were a ticket office), but if not then they can't complain (that said I did hear a case in about 2006 where a member here was denied an Anytime Return on board and the guard insisted on an Anytime Single, which is clearly wrong and made no sense at all. The TOC was Virgin and I encouraged the passenger to complain but I don't think I was told what the outcome was.)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Of course, if the passenger started from a station with ticketing facilities available etc etc, the only ticket that they should be sold on-board is the full-priced anytime.

Anything less than that is a bonus, so any complaints that the guard sold me a more expensive ticket, in these cases, is just sour grapes, IMHO.

Then I guess I enjoyed a sweet young French grape after being recently declined a ticket on-board.
The guard's 'excuse' was a half-apology that (s)he just couldn't find the cheap fare which (s)he was sure had been in the machine earlier in the week, and there's no way they would be selling me a ticket costing any more than necessary. So no sale.

[My gratitude to the guard didn't seem to be appreciated - the sort of response we'd get from the Cornish or in the Scots Western Isles. Don't we love stereotypes?]

 

[WestCoast]

Of course, if the passenger started from a station with ticketing facilities available etc etc, the only ticket that they should be sold on-board is the full-priced anytime.

Anything less than that is a bonus, so any complaints that the guard sold me a more expensive ticket, in these cases, is just sour grapes, IMHO.

Isn't this the plain and simple NRCoC in non penalty fare zones? After all the obligation is on the passenger to buy their ticket before boarding if facilities exist - I don't see why guards should have to ignore this.

In some countries an onboard supplement on top of the 'anytime fare' is charged where the passenger has the chance to purchase before boarding - I'd like to see this system implemented in the UK.

 

[yorkie]

In some countries an onboard supplement on top of the 'anytime fare' is charged where the passenger has the chance to purchase before boarding - I'd like to see this system implemented in the UK.

The supplement is already built-in to our Anytime fares! And more! It costs a lot more to buy on board Manchester to London than the equivalent fare on board in France.

I would be fine with your system if the existing fares were massively reduced, or if there was a national railcard for discounts when buying before boarding.

 

[WestCoast]

The supplement is already built-in to our Anytime fares! And more! It costs a lot more to buy on board Manchester to London than the equivalent fare on board in France.

I was thinking more of local journeys in non-PF zones where the difference between "Off-Peak" and "Anytime" is not so great but for the longer distance journeys yes the anytime fare is effectively a very large supplement!

 

[222007]

Isn't this the plain and simple NRCoC in non penalty fare zones? After all the obligation is on the passenger to buy their ticket before boarding if facilities exist - I don't see why guards should have to ignore this.

Exactly. If ticketing facilities are open and availible for use then i will not sell a discounted ticket (SDS/R or SOS/R only). Although today i did sell split tickets as the passenger had joined from an un-staffed station which was the right thing to do.

 

[radamfi]

What about selling tickets in advance? How good are guards, in your experience, in doing that?

What about unusual tickets in advance, such as Day Rangers, GM Bus and Train Daysaver, SPT Roundabout, Plusbus etc.?

 

[scotsman]

What about selling tickets in advance? How good are guards, in your experience, in doing that?

What about unusual tickets in advance, such as Day Rangers, GM Bus and Train Daysaver, SPT Roundabout, Plusbus etc.?

SPT Daytripper can be sold as an 'exchange' where it must be exchanged at the first opportunity (first time they come to a ticket office in the SPT Zone)

 

[222007]

What about selling tickets in advance? How good are guards, in your experience, in doing that?

I have done this a number of times. We have a few un-manned stations in our area and people will often ask if i can do them tickets for the rest of the week not a problem from my point of view.

 

[transportphoto]

I have bought split tickets for travel the next day from a guard before (I think it was something like 7 splits (the joys of XC :roll which was 14 tickets due to it being for two people. (the splits saved us £20)

I have also purchased inboundary travelcards from gaurds before (technically in advance).

Also - slightly off topic - I have seen tickets issued by guards that have had more than one person on and then others it has dispensed all of them separately... why is this? (using Avantix Mob)

 

[222007]

Also - slightly off topic - I have seen tickets issued by guards that have had more than one person on and then others it has dispensed all of them separately... why is this? (using Avantix Mob)

It is possible to to do this although i have never done it myself mainly to avoid the possibility of one person returning earlier than the other. I have only ever seen it a couple of times though

 

[transportphoto]

It is possible to to do this although i have never done it myself mainly to avoid the possibility of one person returning earlier than the other. I have only ever seen it a couple of times though

Is it an option during sales then?

Can the guards choose to issue them all one one ticket?

Also - I guess places where it could happen are F&F RC (where the child has to be present) Grp Save etc...