Buying ticket on train - prosecution in retrospect

[Deskman50]

If you have boarded a train from a station with working ticket facilities without a ticket and then bought a ticket from the conductor - is this an offense in retrospect?

 

[Wethebest838]

I don't believe so as long as it's mentioned that you can buy tickets from the conductor/guard on the train. I could be incorrect so no one shoot me down

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you have boarded a train from a station with working ticket facilities without a ticket and then bought a ticket from the conductor - is this an offense in retrospect?

It technically is but would not be pursued. If the railway intended to pursue you it would issue an Unpaid Fares Notice or complete an MG11, not sell a ticket or indeed issue a Penalty Fare.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You should really buy a ticket before boarding but on my line, conductors regularly sell tickets (e.g. pay when challenged)

 

[Haywain]

If you have boarded a train from a station with working ticket facilities without a ticket and then bought a ticket from the conductor - is this an offense in retrospect?

It's nothing to be concerned about but the situation would be very different if you had encountered a revenue protection inspector instead of a conductor. So, it's best not to be doing this.

 

[island]

If you have boarded a train from a station with working ticket facilities without a ticket and then bought a ticket from the conductor - is this an offense in retrospect?

Yes. The offence is committed and completed when you choose to join the train. What you do afterwards does not and cannot retrospectively un-commit the offence.

In practice, if the guard sells you a ticket that will be the end of the matter.

 

[Western Sunset]

Back in the days when there were "Pay Trains", which is probably still ingrained in the minds of some rail users, was it technically an offence to board without a ticket?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Back in the days when there were "Pay Trains", which is probably still ingrained in the minds of some rail users, was it technically an offence to board without a ticket?

No, because notices gave permission to do so.

 

[skyhigh]

If you have boarded a train from a station with working ticket facilities without a ticket and then bought a ticket from the conductor - is this an offense in retrospect?

Is there a particular reason you're asking this? Are you in contact with a train company over previous offences, or is it just a question of general interest?

 

[Watershed]

Back in the days when there were "Pay Trains", which is probably still ingrained in the minds of some rail users, was it technically an offence to board without a ticket?

There still are "Pay Trains" on certain regional parts of Greater Anglia's and GWR's network. And there are still some other stations with BR-era signage telling/permitting you to buy your ticket from the conductor. But otherwise, if there are working ticket issuing facilities at your origin station, and you fail to use them, it's an offence.

 

[1955LR]

A lot of TFW lines ,especially Heart of Wales line , have no ticketing facilities at stations especially at request stops , you can always pay on the train in these circumstances & even where there are ticketing facilities the staff don't seem to bother & issue tickets on board without comment. I can see someone used to this system would easily assume it was the same elsewhere

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of TFW lines ,especially Heart of Wales line , have no ticketing facilities at stations especially at request stops , you can always pay on the train in these circumstances & even where there are ticketing facilities the staff don't seem to bother & issue tickets on board without comment. I can see someone used to this system would easily assume it was the same elsewhere

That does catch some people out, yes.

 

[Kilopylae]

A lot of TFW lines ,especially Heart of Wales line , have no ticketing facilities at stations especially at request stops , you can always pay on the train in these circumstances & even where there are ticketing facilities the staff don't seem to bother & issue tickets on board without comment. I can see someone used to this system would easily assume it was the same elsewhere

My friends and family from the depths of GWRland tend to assume that you need to buy a ticket in advance for 'big' trains and can buy on board for 'small' trains — even though this is technically no longer the case on (say) most of the Exmouth line. But I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for pay-when-challenged on local lines in Devon and Cornwall except when boarding at bigger stations like Newton Abbot where there's more than just a TVM.

 

[RPI]

My friends and family from the depths of GWRland tend to assume that you need to buy a ticket in advance for 'big' trains and can buy on board for 'small' trains — even though this is technically no longer the case on (say) most of the Exmouth line. But I've never heard of anyone getting in trouble for pay-when-challenged on local lines in Devon and Cornwall except when boarding at bigger stations like Newton Abbot where there's more than just a TVM.

I can assure you that plenty of people receive Penalty Fares in Devon and Cornwall if they board at a Penalty Fare station! With the exception of Newcourt all of the TVM's in Devon accept both cash and card too (Okehampton is card only but not a PF station). Okehampton and Barnstaple are both currently Paytrain routes, along with all the Cornish branches.

 

[DeverseSam]

There still are "Pay Trains" on certain regional parts of Greater Anglia's and GWR's network. And there are still some other stations with BR-era signage telling/permitting you to buy your ticket from the conductor. But otherwise, if there are working ticket issuing facilities at your origin station, and you fail to use them, it's an offence.

And Hull Trains, Grand Central, possibly Lumo

 

[SouthEastBuses]

There still are "Pay Trains" on certain regional parts of Greater Anglia's and GWR's network. And there are still some other stations with BR-era signage telling/permitting you to buy your ticket from the conductor. But otherwise, if there are working ticket issuing facilities at your origin station, and you fail to use them, it's an offence.

EMR's Robin Hood Line is another line where you can buy tickets onboard - at least according to the Penalty Fare notice at Bulwell station.

 

[Watershed]

EMR's Robin Hood Line is another line where you can buy tickets onboard - at least according to the Penalty Fare notice at Bulwell station.

Definitely not the case - it's a Penalty Fares route as you say!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Definitely not the case - it's a Penalty Fares route as you say!

There are Penalty Fares stations where you can buy on board now PFs extend to very rural stations which have no facilities. Also if a notice says you can then you can!

 

[Watershed]

There are Penalty Fares stations where you can buy on board now PFs extend to very rural stations which have no facilities. Also if a notice says you can then you can!

That's true, I was just correcting the statement that you can generally buy on board on the RHL.

 

[Lucy1501]

If you are in possession of a Disabled Person’s Railcard, you are always able to buy on the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you are in possession of a Disabled Person’s Railcard, you are always able to buy on the train.

I don't believe the concession is that broad, more that it is allowed if your disability would prevent you using the facilities provided. If you have one due to mild deafness and there's a TVM, good luck with that.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you are in possession of a Disabled Person’s Railcard, you are always able to buy on the train.

That’s not correct. As @Bletchleyite says, it’s only if the nature of your disability means the facilities before travel are inaccessible to you.

I have a Disabled Railcard but the nature of my disability means I am still able to use all points of sale without a problem, so I must buy before I board, every time.

 

[some bloke]

If you have boarded a train from a station with working ticket facilities without a ticket and then bought a ticket from the conductor - is this an offense in retrospect?

Yes (if it was an offence in the first place), but you could argue that prosecuting for that offence is abuse of process

- where the company caused you to have a reasonable impression that the matter was closed by selling the ticket.

 

[LowLevel]

There are Penalty Fares stations where you can buy on board now PFs extend to very rural stations which have no facilities. Also if a notice says you can then you can!

Yes, but the one at Bulwell definitely doesn't say that you can buy in all cases on the train, it has a cash and card TVM and inspectors who travel on trains and dish out penalty fares.

Plenty of people do still choose to chance buying on board on the Robin Hood line however, and given the anti social behaviour issues that have always been a bit present up there the guards generally aren't interested in questioning that, you always take plenty of fares up there.

The Revenue protection inspectors generally won't work alone up there and are in at least pairs if not more, often with additional security staff or the police.

Even in the afternoon and evening the guard will often take more than their days wage in revenue on one trip.

On a recent late turn confined to the Robin Hood line I took over 600 quid and sold over 100 tickets, although several TVMs were out of service.

 

[Snow1964]

There are plenty of stations in GWR Wessex area without ticket issuing facilities. Yesterday the single TVM at my local station was displaying a not in service message too.

Not that easy for a guard/conductor on a 5car 165/166 unit to issue tickets either

 

[[.n]]

I don't believe the concession is that broad, more that it is allowed if your disability would prevent you using the facilities provided. If you have one due to mild deafness and there's a TVM, good luck with that.

My memory is a bit vague on this point, but ISTR there is/was a 50% discount that you can get as a wheelchair user [or visually impaired user] without a railcard (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/44965.aspx), that is also permissible to purchase onboard [because I think its not possible to purchase from a TVM]. I've certainly only ever purchased this onboard in the past

 

[Haywain]

My memory is a bit vague on this point, but ISTR there is/was a 50% discount that you can get as a wheelchair user [or visually impaired user] without a railcard (https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations_destinations/44965.aspx), that is also permissible to purchase onboard [because I think its not possible to purchase from a TVM]. I've certainly only ever purchased this onboard in the past

It's 50% off an Anytime Day Return, or 34% off Anytime Single, Anytime Return or Anytime Day Single, for a customer travelling in their own wheelchair (and for a companion if there is one). The same discounts apply to registered blind or visually impaired customers travelling with a companion but do not apply for them if they are travelling alone.