Buying rangers online?

[Lostin Transit]

Hello,
I’m sure this has been asked countless times so apologies for that but I can’t be bothered to scroll down countless pages,so
I want to do a south pennine day ranger but can I buy it online via an app or do I need to buy it from the ticket office?
Also can I buy it from Derby even though it’s not “in area” and can I buy it from a ticket machine in case there’s a long queue?
Thank you in advance.

 

[Watershed]

Hello,
I’m sure this has been asked countless times so apologies for that but I can’t be bothered to scroll down countless pages,so
I want to do a south pennine day ranger but can I buy it online via an app or do I need to buy it from the ticket office?
Also can I buy it from Derby even though it’s not “in area” and can I buy it from a ticket machine in case there’s a long queue?
Thank you in advance.

Unfortunately it's not possible to buy most rangers or rovers online or on an app. With the exception of the All Line Rover and other products valid in the area served by GWR, they can generally only be bought in person from a ticket office, or from conductors.

In theory, it is possible to buy any ranger/rover from any ticket office or conductor. But the training provided to ticket office staff/conductors to sell rangers/rovers is generally very limited and so they may not know how to do so. It may help to cite the "NLC" for the product - for a South Pennine Day Ranger that's I466. (You can find out the NLC for a given ranger/rover using the very useful RailRover.org site.)

You won't be able to buy a South Pennine Day Ranger from a ticket machine. A handful of local rangers/rovers can be bought from ticket machinies, e.g. the SPT Roundabout, but it's very much the exception to the rule.

So it's probably a good idea to get to the station in plenty of time, in case there's a long queue - or else to buy it in advance. Note that you are only allowed to board the train without a ticket, and buy your ranger/rover onboard, if there isn't a ticket office at your starting station or it's closed when you depart. And if you are travelling in a Penalty Fares area, you need to obtain a Permit to Travel if one is available. If travelling from a Northern-managed station on a Penalty Fares service, it's probably a good idea to obtain a Promise to Pay Notice (although it's questionable whether there is a legal requirement to do so).

 

[ChrisC]

So it's probably a good idea to get to the station in plenty of time, in case there's a long queue - or else to buy it in advance. Note that you are only allowed to board the train without a ticket, and buy your ranger/rover onboard, if there isn't a ticket office at your starting station or it's closed when you depart. And if you are travelling in a Penalty Fares area, you need to obtain a Permit to Travel if one is available. If travelling from a Northern-managed station on a Penalty Fares service, it's probably a good idea to obtain a Promise to Pay Notice (although it's questionable whether there is a legal requirement to do so).

I’m pleased this topic has been raised again because it’s something I’ve been trying to find out about. My local station is in a penalty fares area and has a ticket machine. It’s an EMR managed station and I don’t know whether you can get a Permit to Travel or a Promise to Pay ticket from an EMR machine. Does anyone know? I’m thinking of getting a 7 Day East Midlands Rover and didn’t know what I should do boarding at an unstaffed station. In the past I have always purchased this type of ticket on the train and the EMR conductors have been very helpful and happy to sell me a rover ticket. Now the station is in a penalty fare area I’m not sure that I should do that any more just in case I came across a conductor who was not so accommodating. If I had to buy a single ticket from the machine to either Nottingham of Worksop on my first day would I get this fare refunded when I buy the 7 day rover?

 

[Haywain]

I don’t know whether you can get a Permit to Travel or a Promise to Pay ticket from an EMR machine. Does anyone know?

You can't get such a thing from EMR.

 

[ChrisC]

You can't get such a thing from EMR.

Thanks. I didn’t think you could as I couldn’t remember ever seeing them on the machine. Does that mean that I would have to purchase a single from the TVM to either Nottingham or Worksop and would I get this refunded with no problems when I buy my rover ticket? Surely it would be far more sensible for the guard to be able to continue to sell tickets on the train that are not available from the machine.

 

[Class800]

I've got rangers/rovers in PF area on train no issue - as TVM doesn't sell that ticket - but it was a different TOC, so it's an example rather than explicit recommendation

 

[ChrisC]

I've got rangers/rovers in PF area on train no issue - as TVM doesn't sell that ticket - but it was a different TOC, so it's an example rather than explicit recommendation

I’ve always found EMR guards really friendly and helpful and so buying on the train would probably be ok. It would just be my bad luck to encounter one who wasn’t so helpful and then have problems having boarded a train without a ticket in a penalty fares area. You hear such horrific stories of how passengers can be treated these days although I’ve rarely had any problems.

 

[_toommm_]

Thanks. I didn’t think you could as I couldn’t remember ever seeing them on the machine. Does that mean that I would have to purchase a single from the TVM to either Nottingham or Worksop and would I get this refunded with no problems when I buy my rover ticket? Surely it would be far more sensible for the guard to be able to continue to sell tickets on the train that are not available from the machine.

The guard will sell you the ticket, only the extremely overzealous few will take issue with it. I wouldn’t buy a ticket and try to get the cost of that taken off the rover, as there’s no mention of this in the Conditions of Travel (I think this was only included in the Conditions of Carriage, which the CoT superseded). Bar Sheffield station, I can’t see any issues with you buying it beforehand, as most rovers are in a menu on most TIS’ from what I’ve read (minus the Ffestiniog which is issued as a point-to-point return IIRC).

 

[geoffk]

Bar Sheffield station, I can’t see any issues with you buying it beforehand, as most rovers are in a menu on most TIS’ from what I’ve read (minus the Ffestiniog which is issued as a point-to-point return IIRC).

What happens in Sheffield?

 

[_toommm_]

What happens in Sheffield?

I lived in South Yorkshire for eighteen years, and they were really bad for issuing tickets other than day returns. They refused to sell Northern advances and day rangers and rovers as they couldn’t find either.

 

[Watershed]

I’m pleased this topic has been raised again because it’s something I’ve been trying to find out about. My local station is in a penalty fares area and has a ticket machine. It’s an EMR managed station and I don’t know whether you can get a Permit to Travel or a Promise to Pay ticket from an EMR machine. Does anyone know? I’m thinking of getting a 7 Day East Midlands Rover and didn’t know what I should do boarding at an unstaffed station. In the past I have always purchased this type of ticket on the train and the EMR conductors have been very helpful and happy to sell me a rover ticket. Now the station is in a penalty fare area I’m not sure that I should do that any more just in case I came across a conductor who was not so accommodating. If I had to buy a single ticket from the machine to either Nottingham of Worksop on my first day would I get this fare refunded when I buy the 7 day rover?

There aren't many stations that still have the old Permit to Travel machines. Certainly I'm not aware of any EMR managed stations that have them.

If there's no Permit to Travel machine and no way of obtaining a Promise to Pay Notice, then you are entitled to buy the ticket onboard, notwithstanding the fact that it's a Penalty Fares service. The same goes for if you wanted to pay by a method that wasn't accepted by the ticket machine, e.g. cash if it's a card-only machine, or an RTV.

All EMR trains have guards and if certainly if you proactively approach them on/after boarding, I would be very surprised if you had any difficulties getting the ranger/rover you're after.

 

[Haywain]

My local station is in a penalty fares area and has a ticket machine.

Does it have a ticket office? If so, you need to buy at the ticket office unless it is closed at the time you travel.

 

[geoffk]

I lived in South Yorkshire for eighteen years, and they were really bad for issuing tickets other than day returns. They refused to sell Northern advances and day rangers and rovers as they couldn’t find either.

Does this mean they lack training? In the past when I've bought an out-of-area rover, e.g. a Cheshire Day Ranger from Rochdale, I've had the code ready but found it wasn't needed.

 

[ChrisC]

Does it have a ticket office? If so, you need to buy at the ticket office unless it is closed at the time you travel.

No. That's why I was asking the question as to what to do if the machine does sell the ticket you require.

 

[Llandudno]

I lived in South Yorkshire for eighteen years, and they were really bad for issuing tickets other than day returns. They refused to sell Northern advances and day rangers and rovers as they couldn’t find either.

I have tried to buy TfGM Wayfarers from Sheffield station on a number of occasions, but they point blank refuse to sell them, even though I gave them the code number.
The last time I tried the clerk said just buy one on the train…!

It’s the attitude of staff like this that encourages DfT / Govt to close ticket offices, perhaps the 3-4 clerks I have encountered at Sheffield ticket office are hoping for a decent redundancy pay out!

NB there are no such issues at Chesterfield station!

 

[XAM2175]

If there's no Permit to Travel machine and no way of obtaining a Promise to Pay Notice, then you are entitled to buy the ticket onboard, notwithstanding the fact that it's a Penalty Fares service. The same goes for if you wanted to pay by a method that wasn't accepted by the ticket machine, e.g. cash if it's a card-only machine, or an RTV.

I agree that this is entirely reasonable, but I do note that while the NRCoT codifies this right in respect of the unavailability of your desired method of payment, it doesn't codify it in respect of the unavailability of your desired ticket:

6.1 You must hold a valid Ticket or authority to travel before you board a train where there was the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:

6.1.1 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your only available method of payment (card or cash); and where notices indicate that Penalty Fares may apply from that station, you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for more information about Penalty Fares; or

6.1.2 The station is staffed, and you are specifically permitted to board a train service by an authorised member of staff, or you have received a written notice or heard an audible announcement to this effect; or

6.1.3 At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, because
6.1.3.1 the Ticket office is closed; or
6.1.3.2 a self-service Ticket machine is not in working order, or will not accept your preferred method of payment (card or cash); or
6.1.3.3 You have a disability and Ticket purchasing arrangements at the station you are departing from are not accessible to you.

In these cases, you must, as soon as you are reasonably able, buy an appropriate Ticket to complete your journey. The price of the Ticket you purchase will be the same as if you had bought a Ticket at the station from which you first departed.

I'm hoping (and mostly expecting) that this is simply an oversight on the behalf of the drafting team rather than a deliberate omission, but it's a bit suboptimal all the same.