Buy Before You Board help

[claw]

Hello,

I was hoping for some advice as I am freaking out a little bit.

Yesterday (April 9th) I took a Chiltern Railways train from Bicester Village to London Marylebone which is a journey I do semi-regularly. Due to the strikes, the later train I had originally planned to get was a longer service than usual and would have made me late for an appointment in London. I realised my mistake and quickly rushed to make the earlier service, meaning that I was running to catch the train and boarded without a ticket. I live near the Bicester Village station entrance which does not have a barrier or desk (its open air).

Once i got on the train I tried to buy a ticket on Trainline but there's bad signal for the first 15 minutes of that journey. The train inspector came and he saw my phone ticket purchase go through just as he arrived at my seat. He scanned the ticket and my railcard and told me he needed to take my details because I am not allowed to board the train without a valid ticket and that I would receive a letter asking me to explain myself. He scared me quite a bit talking about how he could have fined me or have me taken to court but this letter is the best case scenario. When I said I'll be "Dr" soon when taking my details he told me that if I do not take the letter seriously I'll get a criminal record and not be able to practise. I got so scared I cried for the rest of the journey.

Completely honestly, I had no idea about the buy before you board. I remember some time in the past people were able to buy tickets from the inspectors so I thought as long as you paid the valid fare it was okay. I've never fare skipped or done the shorter journey thing and I always have a valid railcard. However, I have bought my ticket on my phone on the train many times before because I thought this was okay.

I don't know what to expect with this letter. I'm a bit afraid that I'll miss the letter as I'll be travelling on and off this year and then moving abroad more permanently later this year. He said it could take 4-6 weeks to arrive.

Any advice would be very appreciated. Or if there's some way I can go can talk to Chiltern about it in person? Maybe at Marylebone? Can the letter come by email?

Thanks a lot.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

I was hoping for some advice as I am freaking out a little bit.

Yesterday (April 9th) I took a Chiltern Railways train from Bicester Village to London Marylebone which is a journey I do semi-regularly. Due to the strikes, the later train I had originally planned to get was a longer service than usual and would have made me late for an appointment in London. I realised my mistake and quickly rushed to make the earlier service, meaning that I was running to catch the train and boarded without a ticket. I live near the Bicester Village station entrance which does not have a barrier or desk (its open air).

Once i got on the train I tried to buy a ticket on Trainline but there's bad signal for the first 15 minutes of that journey. The train inspector came and he saw my phone ticket purchase go through just as he arrived at my seat. He scanned the ticket and my railcard and told me he needed to take my details because I am not allowed to board the train without a valid ticket and that I would receive a letter asking me to explain myself. He scared me quite a bit talking about how he could have fined me or have me taken to court but this letter is the best case scenario. When I said I'll be "Dr" soon when taking my details he told me that if I do not take the letter seriously I'll get a criminal record and not be able to practise. I got so scared I cried for the rest of the journey.

Completely honestly, I had no idea about the buy before you board. I remember some time in the past people were able to buy tickets from the inspectors so I thought as long as you paid the valid fare it was okay. I've never fare skipped or done the shorter journey thing and I always have a valid railcard. However, I have bought my ticket on my phone on the train many times before because I thought this was okay.

I don't know what to expect with this letter. I'm a bit afraid that I'll miss the letter as I'll be travelling on and off this year and then moving abroad more permanently later this year. He said it could take 4-6 weeks to arrive.

Any advice would be very appreciated. Or if there's some way I can go can talk to Chiltern about it in person? Maybe at Marylebone? Can the letter come by email?

Thanks a lot.

Hi and welcome

Taking your last question first - the answer is no - you can't go and have a talk to someone at Chiltern about it - and also if you have a look at other threads the advice on this forum is that if you are ever offered an interview in these sorts of circs by the railway company you should not attend without legal representation, since such interviews are deemed by forum members to be about gathering evidence against you that can be used in court as people will often incriminate themselves by mistake in such 'discussions'. Avoid talking to any representative of the railway about it in fact. It is almost always better that the matter is dealt with in writing from this point onwards. But don't write to them until they write to you.

More generally - IIRC Chiltern operates train that are not staffed by guards, so there is no one to buy a ticket from on every service - hence the 'buy before you board policy' - what you did can look like a typical fare evasion tactic used by deliberate fare evaders, know as 'pay when challenged' - ie only buy a ticket when you see a ticket inspector coming down the train, because this does not always happen so x times out of y occasions and many stations do not have barriers you get to travel for free. I realise this was not your plan but you will see how it can look to them.

He scared me quite a bit talking about how he could have fined me or have me taken to court but this letter is the best case scenario.

Unfortunately this is misleading - had you been offered a 'Penalty Fare' (often thought of as a fine by people, and the thing you typically see posters about at stations) you would have been able to pay this with 50% discount for prompt payment and that is the end of the matter. What I suspect has happened is that you have been reported for investigation (A Ticket Irregularity report') by the back office. This is worse than getting a Penalty fare unfortunately.

Were you given any paperwork by the person who stopped you? If so keep it safe.

Have a look at other threads - what will happen next is that Chiltern or company they contract out this work to (TIL - Transport Investigations Ltd) will write to you in hard copy paper most likely, they will threaten you with prosecution but ask for 'your side of the story' - it is vital you get and reply to this letter - this is your opportunity to ask if they will settle the matter without prosecution

It could take some weeks or months even before you get this letter. Make sure you watch out for it at the address you gave, and if you move make sure you make arrangements for your post to be forwarded, if you go on holiday someone needs to check your post as you usually only get a short time to reply to these letters. No reply means escalation towards court (which is what the Inspector alluded to in what you say they said I suspect).

If you are moving / traveling / leaving the country maybe you can set up a Royal Mail redirect to a trusted family member who can watch out for post, scan it and e-mail it to you so you can deal with it from wherever you are at the time.

Sorry this will not be the news you want to read...

BUT - advice for now is:

- Have a look at other threads on the forums (including involving Chiltern) which will give you an idea of what happens next and how these things often progress
- Make sure you can receive any letter they send you (and also check for e-mails that may end up in spam)
- IMHO it is unlikely that an 'honest mistake' made with reference to buying a train ticket would prevent you from practising as a Doctor if you are (in worst case scenario) convicted of fare evasion, which should be possible to avoid in any case - but something you could do would be to check this out with the relevant professional body (BMA?) and / or your medical school. They should be able to give you good confidential advice on how such issues are treated
- Make sure from now on all your tickets are bought correctly, your Railcard is in date etc etc. You do not want another mistake to get flagged when they are looking into your case for obvious reasons.
- When you hear from Chiltern or anyone on their behalf head back here for good advice on how to respond to their letter to get the best outcome possible

There are lots of very helpful experts on here so feel free to ask any questions that come to you and also try not to worry too hard about all this.

Head back here for help as and when you need it.

Hope all this helps you understand more about what to expect next etc

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum!

I think there are two things you should do at this point:
- work out ways to make sure that you see any mail which is sent to your current address, even after you have moved on. Depending on your circumstances (are you sharing your address with people who will still be there? Is there someone who could have post sent to you) it may be possible to get someone to forward stuff on to you or maybe open post and send you pictures of it. Or mmaybe you have relatives who post could be diverted to. The Royal Mail's post redirection service may be useful - see https://www.royalmail.com/personal/receiving-mail/redirection
- find out what your regulator has to say about issues like not paying the right train fare. I assume that you're expecting to qualify as a medic, so have a look at the GMC website: if you're a member of the BMA or another union, talk to a union rep to find out if this will be an issue

More generally, we tend to recommend waiting for the railway to write to you - if you try to contact them before that then there won't be a case reference available so anything you send may not get properly attached to your case papers. And you have already noted down what happened, so you are in a position to refresh your memory when they are in touch. But it's likely that Chiltern (or Transport Investigations Ltd, who they use as an agent for this sort of thing) will write to you threatening prosecution. This is not an empty threat, but it often seems to be the case that if you reply to them accepting responsibility and making it clear that you will not offend again - and if you carry on holding this line when their next letter also threatens prosecution - then they will agree to let you settle out of court for the train fare and their investigation costs. While that isn't cheap, it is cheaper than being taken to court, and avoids the question of a criminal record.

 

[claw]

Hi both,

Thank you for taking the time to help out!

Okay, I won't speak to anyone and I'll look into the royal mail forwarding to my parents' address once we move. Hopefully it comes before then. Sadly he didn't take my email and I didn't have the mental clarity to ask.

I would have happily paid a Penalty Fare, do you know why this wasn't offered? He let me scan a QR code on his badge to a website faq which says something about not being able to pay a Penalty Fare if it's your 2nd time. But I've never had this happen before.

I keep on replaying in my head wondering if I said something wrong, I thought I was very friendly and smiling. Maybe he thought I wasn't taking it seriously enough? I don't know. It probably doesn't matter.

Re the letter, he seemed to suggest that the letter would not involve payment or prosecution unless I ignored it, which I don't intend to. But maybe I misunderstood. He used the words 'a worse scenario would be that I ask you to pay a £100 fine plus the ticket and the very worst scenario is that you get called to court. This way you can explain yourself' and then I think he said something about a warning but I'm not sure. He didn't say I'd be investigated just questioned on why I didn't board with the ticket. I did not receive any paperwork.

I used to travel South Eastern so maybe my experience of people buying from inspectors only applied to that company. Or that things have changed in 5+ years and I haven't thought about it.

In any case, I really hope that they look at my history and see that I'm always correctly travelling this same journey from where I live.

Thanks again, I will post here when I get the letter.

 

[Haywain]

I would have happily paid a Penalty Fare, do you know why this wasn't offered?

Possibly because a Penalty Fare is not appropriate to what you were doing or had done. Had one been issued it would have been a simple case to appeal as it would not have been issued in line with the PF legislation. Whether the inspector knew this or got lucky we cannot know.

 

[claw]

Yes possibly, I know very little about this stuff. The FAQ that his barcode led to is here: https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/buybeforeyouboard. The last question seems to suggest that a Penalty Fare can be given if it is your first time? Or maybe it's just up to the discretion of the inspector. In any case, I wouldn't have wanted to appeal, it would've just been nice to have this sorted.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes possibly, I know very little about this stuff. The faq that his QR code led to is here: https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/buybeforeyouboard . The last question seems to suggest that a Penalty Fare can be given if it is your first time? Or maybe it's just up to the discretion of the inspector. In any case I wouldn't have wanted to appeal, it would've just been nice to have this sorted.

Legally speaking a Penalty Fare cannot be issued if you show a valid ticket, but bought it after boarding. It is an unintended lacuna in the regulations which did not anticipate people boarding, and then using a mobile device to buy their ticket.

 

[claw]

Oh gotcha, thanks. That is unfortunate.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi both,

Thank you for taking the time to help out!

Okay, I won't speak to anyone and I'll look into the royal mail forwarding to my parents' address once we move. Hopefully it comes before then. Sadly he didn't take my email and I didn't have the mental clarity to ask.

I would have happily paid a Penalty Fare, do you know why this wasn't offered? He let me scan a QR code on his badge to a website faq which says something about not being able to pay a Penalty Fare if it's your 2nd time. But I've never had this happen before.

I keep on replaying in my head wondering if I said something wrong, I thought I was very friendly and smiling. Maybe he thought I wasn't taking it seriously enough? I don't know. It probably doesn't matter.

Re the letter, he seemed to suggest that the letter would not involve payment or prosecution unless I ignored it, which I don't intend to. But maybe I misunderstood. He used the words 'a worse scenario would be that I ask you to pay a £100 fine plus the ticket and the very worst scenario is that you get called to court. This way you can explain yourself' and then I think he said something about a warning but I'm not sure. He didn't say I'd be investigated just questioned on why I didn't board with the ticket. I did not receive any paperwork.

I used to travel South Eastern so maybe my experience of people buying from inspectors only applied to that company. Or that things have changed in 5+ years and I haven't thought about it.

In any case, I really hope that they look at my history and see that I'm always correctly travelling this same journey from where I live.

Thanks again, I will post here when I get the letter.

I wouldn't over think what you were told on the train. There are often cases on here where staff report people's names and addresses and the passenger says here that they were told 'this would then be sorted out and it probably would not be a problem' - or some such wording - but it seems likely to me at least that staff say that sort of thing to diffuse a situation where a passenger might get angry or distressed because they feel they have not really done anting wrong, and were unaware that the policy when strictly adhered to does not permit buying on board.

It's not really helped by what looks like inconsistent approaches by on train staff that then lead people to genuinely believe it is fine to buy a ticket on board. Just last Saturday I got on a train at my local (large city centre station with well staffed ticket office, lots of ticket machines etc) - my local train company operates a buy before you board and Penalty Fare system. The guard checked tickets soon after departing and in my area of the train there were 8 passengers including me and my 2 friends who all had tickets before boarding. None of the other 5 passengers had bought tickets before boarding. The Guard happily sold those 5 people the tickets they needed, complete with Railcard discounts where they had a Railcard. Yet the policy if strictly adhered to would have meant those 5 people would / should have either been reported like you have been or potentially given Penalty Fares. And if a Revenue Inspector had been checking instead of the Guard they all would have been issued with such tougher sanctions. But they would have been given no clue that the (friendly) guard was doing them a favour by issuing tickets as she did and might not understand why next time they would not be so lucky....this does not really help.

There are circs where you are permitted to board without a ticket but these are broadly
- where there is no working ticket issuing facility at the station (no ticket office / machine not working) - you are not required to use your own phone to buy
- where you only have a method of payment that is not possible to use at the station (eg can only pay in cash, ticket machine will not accept cash).

On these points:

Re the letter, he seemed to suggest that the letter would not involve payment or prosecution unless I ignored it, which I don't intend to.

It probably won't request payment at the initial stage, but it will almost certainly look like a threat to prosecute you. If you ignore it things seem to just go in the automatic 'escalate to court' pile so he did not mislead you about that

He used the words 'a worse scenario would be that I ask you to pay a £100 fine plus the ticket

This is a Penalty Fare - the £100 is reduced to £50 if paid Promptly, it comes with a Right of Appeal and appealing them prevents further action in court. It's almost certainly the best option, or least worst option, not the worst!

and the very worst scenario is that you get called to court.

Yes, that would be the worst scenario and it can't be ruled out, but if you engage with advice from here there is a strong chance you can avoid this.

He didn't say I'd be investigated just questioned on why I didn't board with the ticket.

They will do things like try to check your on line ticket buying records to see if there is evidence of you doing thigs like this habitually, or other things they think might be wrong (eg buying tickets with Railcard discounts when you do not have a Railcard( - but essentially the letter they will send will ask for your version of events / your side of the story.

Although they may be happy to then take no further action I fear it is more likely that they will seek to charge you for another ticket (on the basis that yours was not valid because you did not buy it before boarding) and some sort of 'admin fee' of circa £150.

I did not receive any paperwork.

Thanks for clarifying

I used to travel South Eastern so maybe my experience of people buying from inspectors only applied to that company. Or that things have changed in 5+ years and I haven't thought about it.

See my example above, things can be inconsistent - but the Government (who control the train operators) want them to move towards buy before you board backed up by things like penalty fares or other sanctions, this is part of the government objective, IMHO, to get rid of train guards and reduce the numbers of staff employed on the railway.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

To add to what has already been said, what will happen next is that Chiltern Railways, or a company called Transport Investigation Limited who sometimes act on their behalf will write to you. The letter will typically take a couple of months to arrive but recent reports on this forum suggest Chiltern are taking quite a long time to get these initial letters out at present. If you are going to be away for a period of time or are moving then I suggest making arrangements to make sure you get this letter.

When the letter does arrive it will say that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events before deciding how to proceed. The letter is usually written in a rather threatening style. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Chiltern are one of the more 'robust' train companies to deal with but are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) to people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and they are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they decide to do so

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare at the full Anytime rate. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[John R]

When I said I'll be "Dr" soon when taking my details he told me that if I do not take the letter seriously I'll get a criminal record and not be able to practise.

It's worth noting that assuming you cooperate when contacted then you are likely to get a settlement offer and it will not go to court.

But..., suppose for some strange reason they play hard ball and do take you to court? If, as you say, this is an isolated example, I find it hard to believe that any profession would bar someone for not realising they have to buy before you board. It would be a completely different matter if you had been caught for short faring, "doughnutting" or some other activity where there was clearly an intent to avoid paying the correct fare. You would however, be best advised to notify any profession or regulatory body of any conviction though - often failure to notify is more serious than the conviction itself. But it's very unlikely to come to that - an out of court settlement is highly likely.

 

[claw]

Thank you for the replies everyone. After spending yesterday reading through the forums for Chiltern I am a little reassured that a settlement should be possible. I don’t short fare or skip or refund or anything like that and it seems people are offered settlements doing a lot worse than failing buy before you board. Obviously breaking the regulation is still bad but at least I haven’t cost them any money. Very hard not to overthink and stress about it all though. I was returning through Marylebone today and felt like a criminal and that every member of staff was out to get me. Awful feeling, I can’t believe how shaken I am by the whole thing.

I will post here when I get the letter. I very much hope that they do not play hard ball as I am trying to move to the US with my partner and a conviction would likely ruin that.

Thanks for the anecdote WesternLancer, yes stuff like that reinforces the idea that it’s okay to buy on board. I’ve seen on another thread someone say that they used to let people off but tell them that they could get in trouble but people ended up just antagonising them so they stopped bothering to mention it. It’s sad that the actions of a few, i.e. fare evaders and bad customers, make the situation worse for everyone else.

For anyone curious, I’ve written out how I remember the interaction with the inspector to have been. It’s very unlikely to be exact but I think I just wanted to get it out of my head. I apologise that this reads like lame fan fiction.

----

Him: Any tickets from Bicester?
Me: Yup! One second it’s just processing, there we go it’s gone through.
Inspector moves to sit down diagonally opposite from me and looks at me very seriously.
Him: Why did you board the train without a valid ticket?
I realise that I’ve done something wrong from his question but I don’t know yet how serious it is. I assumed he would tell me I shouldn’t do that and that would be it.
Me: I was running late and ran to catch the train. It’s why I’m all sweaty and gross.
Him: Okay well I’m going to have to take down some details and you’ll get a letter where you get to explain yourself. This is the best case scenario.
I take this at face value but it’s pretty obvious that being late isn’t a good excuse for breaking a rule in the letter so I start to get a little worried. This reply is probably where I made a mistake? I thought I was being friendly/funny but I think on reflection that I just came across as a smart arse (either that or someone had been really difficult with him earlier).
Me: I think best case scenario would be not getting a letter haha.
Him: Well a worse scenario is that I charge you £100 plus the full price of the ticket and even worse is that you get a summons to court so don’t tell me how to do my job.
I realise I’ve offended him and instantly feel terrible but I don’t know how to respond properly now that I’m starting to worry, but I try to stay jovial.
Me: Oh no of course, sorry I was just joking around. Yes those do sound like worse outcomes.
He starts to take my details and scans my ticket and railcard and seems to relax a little seeing I had a valid railcard (but maybe I imagined that body language).
Him: Did you use the open entrance to Bicester Village?
Me: Yes
Him: I understand that the barriers can be a pain and it can take a long time, especially if you’re running late…
Me: I just use that entrance because live closest to it.
Him: You shouldn’t tell me that.
Now I’m really confused, what’s wrong with using that entrance? There are no signs saying you can’t use it (I checked thoroughly on my way back home today) and it has a ticket machine right outside it. I don’t question him on it though.
He asks about my name and we have the ‘Dr’ interaction that I specified earlier. I’m not actually training to be a medical doctor but finishing my doctorate degree (in a week tomorrow) but I thought it wasn’t wise to keep on sounding like a smart arse so I don’t correct him. My research is in the medical space however so I started to freak out in my head when he mentioned the criminal record.
Me: How long will it take for the letter to arrive?
Him: Around 6-8 weeks.
I start to panic now because I know I’ll be travelling on and off in the next few months. I misremember exactly what he said after this because of the internal panic. It was something like:
Him: If you don’t receive the letter scan this barcode and [something I can’t remember].
He puts his badge on the table and I can hardly find the barcode in my panic, thinking that if I don’t find it soon enough then I’ll somehow be in worse trouble. I don’t mentally register anything else on his badge, but I find and scan the barcode. My eyes are welling up at this point. The QR code goes to the faq website, but in my head I assumed it would be his contact details for him to help out in case I didn’t get the letter. Fully crying now.
Me: I think this might be wrong.
Him: No that’s correct.
Him: There’s no need to get upset.
Me: Sorry.
Him: Do you have any more questions?
I shake my head because I just want him to go away at this point, as I can’t stand people seeing me cry. I obviously should have asked more questions.

----

 

[Pushpit]

My first thought about the "You shouldn't tell me that" statement was that (e.g.) if you were a foreign visitor or didn't know the station, you perhaps wouldn't be familiar with the layout of this brand new station, whereas if you knew the station well and lived nearby then you don't really have a good excuse to travel ticketless for 15 minutes, which doesn't look good, and only magically appear with a ticket just as soon as he is next to you.

Now I say that, but I also want to say that your script pretty much gives the impression you were bullied by the staff member (at least to some degree) and made very upset by some of his behaviours, which don't come across as professional or with appropriate levels of courtesy. But there isn't a lot you can do other than set up a strong process to ensure that you see any letters over the next few weeks and to engage positively with those letters. Hopefully your medical background will help you place this incident in a more comfortable spot, mentally. You've done the "Connect with others" - don't forget the "stay focused" and "keep positive".

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the replies everyone. After spending yesterday reading through the forums for Chiltern I am a little reassured that a settlement should be possible. I don’t short fare or skip or refund or anything like that and it seems people are offered settlements doing a lot worse than failing buy before you board. Obviously breaking the regulation is still bad but at least I haven’t cost them any money. Very hard not to overthink and stress about it all though. I was returning through Marylebone today and felt like a criminal and that every member of staff was out to get me. Awful feeling, I can’t believe how shaken I am by the whole thing.

I will post here when I get the letter. I very much hope that they do not play hard ball as I am trying to move to the US with my partner and a conviction would likely ruin that.

Thanks for the anecdote WesternLancer, yes stuff like that reinforces the idea that it’s okay to buy on board. I’ve seen on another thread someone say that they used to let people off but tell them that they could get in trouble but people ended up just antagonising them so they stopped bothering to mention it. It’s sad that the actions of a few, i.e. fare evaders and bad customers, make the situation worse for everyone else.

For anyone curious, I’ve written out how I remember the interaction with the inspector to have been. It’s very unlikely to be exact but I think I just wanted to get it out of my head. I apologise that this reads like lame fan fiction.

----

Him: Any tickets from Bicester?
Me: Yup! One second it’s just processing, there we go it’s gone through.
Inspector moves to sit down diagonally opposite from me and looks at me very seriously.
Him: Why did you board the train without a valid ticket?
I realise that I’ve done something wrong from his question but I don’t know yet how serious it is. I assumed he would tell me I shouldn’t do that and that would be it.
Me: I was running late and ran to catch the train. It’s why I’m all sweaty and gross.
Him: Okay well I’m going to have to take down some details and you’ll get a letter where you get to explain yourself. This is the best case scenario.
I take this at face value but it’s pretty obvious that being late isn’t a good excuse for breaking a rule in the letter so I start to get a little worried. This reply is probably where I made a mistake? I thought I was being friendly/funny but I think on reflection that I just came across as a smart arse (either that or someone had been really difficult with him earlier).
Me: I think best case scenario would be not getting a letter haha.
Him: Well a worse scenario is that I charge you £100 plus the full price of the ticket and even worse is that you get a summons to court so don’t tell me how to do my job.
I realise I’ve offended him and instantly feel terrible but I don’t know how to respond properly now that I’m starting to worry, but I try to stay jovial.
Me: Oh no of course, sorry I was just joking around. Yes those do sound like worse outcomes.
He starts to take my details and scans my ticket and railcard and seems to relax a little seeing I had a valid railcard (but maybe I imagined that body language).
Him: Did you use the open entrance to Bicester Village?
Me: Yes
Him: I understand that the barriers can be a pain and it can take a long time, especially if you’re running late…
Me: I just use that entrance because live closest to it.
Him: You shouldn’t tell me that.
Now I’m really confused, what’s wrong with using that entrance? There are no signs saying you can’t use it (I checked thoroughly on my way back home today) and it has a ticket machine right outside it. I don’t question him on it though.
He asks about my name and we have the ‘Dr’ interaction that I specified earlier. I’m not actually training to be a medical doctor but finishing my doctorate degree (in a week tomorrow) but I thought it wasn’t wise to keep on sounding like a smart arse so I don’t correct him. My research is in the medical space however so I started to freak out in my head when he mentioned the criminal record.
Me: How long will it take for the letter to arrive?
Him: Around 6-8 weeks.
I start to panic now because I know I’ll be travelling on and off in the next few months. I misremember exactly what he said after this because of the internal panic. It was something like:
Him: If you don’t receive the letter scan this QR code and [something I can’t remember].
He puts his badge on the table and I can hardly find the QR code in my panic thinking that if I don’t find it soon enough then I’ll somehow be in worse trouble. I don’t mentally register anything else on his badge but I find and scan the QR code. My eyes are welling up at this point. The QR code goes to the faq website but in my head I assumed it would be his contact details for him to help out in case I didn’t get the letter. Fully crying now.
Me: I think this might be wrong.
Him: No that’s correct.
Him: There’s no need to get upset.
Me: Sorry.
Him: Do you have any more questions?
I shake my head because I just want him to go away at this point as I can’t stand people seeing me cry. I obviously should have asked more questions.

----

Always a very good idea to get some notes down whilst things fresh in your mind as it could be some time before you hear from them. Even if you don't need to use them. This would have to go very wrong for this to end up with anything other than a settlement. Just a case of engaging with the process - which in itself is frustrating and time consuming for an 'honest mistake' of course.

 

[claw]

My first thought about the "You shouldn't tell me that" statement was that (e.g.) if you were a foreign visitor or didn't know the station, you perhaps wouldn't be familiar with the layout of this brand new station, whereas if you knew the station well and lived nearby then you don't really have a good excuse to travel ticketless for 15 minutes, which doesn't look good, and only magically appear with a ticket just as soon as he is next to you.

That makes sense but I had already told him that my reason was because I was running late so I'm not sure what not knowing the station would add. It was taking my address that prompted him to ask if I used the open entrance so he already knew I lived nearby and I have quite a British accent (though I may look a bit foreign).

Thank you for the kind words though. Yes I should just focus on my thesis now.

Always a very good idea to get some notes down whilst things fresh in your mind as it could be some time before you hear from them. Even if you don't need to use them. This would have to go very wrong for this to end up with anything other than a settlement. Just a case of engaging with the process - which in itself is frustrating and time consuming for an 'honest mistake' of course.

Fingers crossed! I had a look through my emails from Trainline and I lead a very boring Oxford <-> Bicester Village <-> Marylebone life.

 

[claw]

Hello everyone, the letter arrived.

I have moved abroad now and set up Royal Mail forwarding but it went to the original address anyway. Thankfully my mother-in-law happened to be stopping by and picked it up!!

I've attached the letter here and it looks like I have until the 2nd of August to reply. Ideally I'd like to reply tomorrow.

I would appreciate any advice on writing the email response.
My plan is to apologise profusely, say I was running late which is no excuse and I have not made this mistake again since the incident, nor will I make it again in future. Not sure if I should mention the strikes which is why I was late, I don't want it to seem like I'm anti strike. I'm also not sure if I should mention that I do not fare skip and I am appalled when people do, and that I live on an entrance to Bicester Village station with no barriers, so I was not intensionally avoiding barriers to board the train.

Thank you all!

 

[furlong]

The wording looks wrong. It claims you failed to show a valid ticket - but you told us that you did, just that you bought it after boarding, and that the ticket was scanned so they have evidence of that.

Was it a 100% correct ticket? If so, you'll need to point that out to them, then explain how it came about similar to what you've told us (but just the key points, live by entrance, rushing for train, no signal, ticket was scanned etc.), apologise for having no idea you were meant to buy before boarding, include an image of the ticket again, add whatever reassurances you feel you can give them and trust that will resolve the matter.

[There is a basically an offence to board without a valid ticket, but normally once the ticket has been bought, prosecution would be seen as wasting the court's time - there is no unpaid fare for them to claim and no financial loss, and you'd expect a warning instead unless a trawl through your ticket purchase history showed up other problems.]

 

[Haywain]

The wording looks wrong. It claims you failed to show a valid ticket - but you told us that you did, just that you bought it after boarding, and that the ticket was scanned so they have evidence of that.

If the inspector "saw the purchase go through", then a valid ticket was not initially shown.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==

prosecution would be seen as wasting the court's time

By you, apparently.

there is no unpaid fare for them to claim and no financial loss,

A court is interested in whether the offence that has been charged has been committed or not, and does not reach a verdict based on whether there has been financial loss.

 

[John R]

If the inspector "saw the purchase go through", then a valid ticket was not initially shown.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2024 ==


By you, apparently.

A court is interested in whether the offence that has been charged has been committed or not, and does not reach a verdict basedon whether there has been financial loss.

If TOCs couldn’t prosecute if someone bought a ticket only once an inspector appeared on the basis that there was no financial loss then it would open the floodgates for “pay when challenged” evasion.

 

[island]

[There is a basically an offence to board without a valid ticket, but normally once the ticket has been bought, prosecution would be seen as wasting the court's time - there is no unpaid fare for them to claim and no financial loss, and you'd expect a warning instead unless a trawl through your ticket purchase history showed up other problems.]

This is complete nonsense. Boarding without a ticket is an offence, and prosecution is not in the slightest way seen as "wasting the court's time". Magistrates up and down the country deal with this offence week in week out. "Buy only when challenged" is not acceptable.

 

[furlong]

So how many threads for fare evasion have you seen on here - other than some recent ones misusing barriers on TfL - where there were proceedings with no compensation to claim as there was no unpaid fare? When someone is caught evading a fare, I think train companies go out of their way to make sure they do not accept payment to resolve the matter so that they can easily justify using the courts and claim compensation by demonstrating an actual loss. When there's no financial loss, prosecution comes up against the public interest test, an expectation that the discretion of any prosecuting authority not to prosecute would be exercised, and then if it does reach court it's the sort of case where the defendant can reasonably argue for a discharge.

If the inspector "saw the purchase go through", then a valid ticket was not initially shown.

But then why did he scan the ticket? If the OP tried to get a refund, it would show as used - his fare has been paid - prosecution over a technicality when a warning should suffice?

That's not to say the OP won't decide any risk of court action is too great and seek to pay an inflated settlement, but it's important the OP is aware of potential weaknesses in the case before making decisions.

 

[island]

When there's no financial loss, prosecution comes up against the public interest test, an expectation that the discretion of any prosecuting authority not to prosecute would be exercised, and then if it does reach court it's the sort of case where the defendant can reasonably argue for a discharge.

This may be your personal opinion on how things should be, but in no way resembles how things actually are. If you think things should change, I would suggest you write to your MP. As for this thread, we are here to advise the OP on reality, not agitate for changes.

 

[claw]

Whilst I agree with the principle it seems like they are in their rights to prosecute. I noticed last month that quite aggressive adverts on Chiltern services starting popping up about failing 'buy before you board' being a criminal offence. In any case, I want to resolve this as smoothly as possible since we are abroad now. I appreciate the replies though, it certainly feels like a harsh consequence! I took a South Eastern train last month where they announced the train would split at X station and if anyone wanted to buy a ticket from the conductor they should find him before the split... So different!

I am drafting the email reply now, will post in a bit.

 

[furlong]

This may be your personal opinion on how things should be, but in no way resembles how things actually are. If you think things should change, I would suggest you write to your MP. As for this thread, we are here to advise the OP on reality, not agitate for changes.

And I'm pointing out that in practice, cases where the inspector sold or accepted a valid ticket tend to be the ones that result in a warning.

 

[claw]

Dear Fraud and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to the Notice of Intended Prosecution with customer reference [].

While I understand that this is by no means a valid reason to board the train without a ticket, I will explain a little how this situation came about.

On April 9th there were train strikes which meant that trains were running a slightly longer service than usual. I was due for an appointment in London and when I checked the trains again, I realised that the service I had intended to get would make me late. I rushed to make the earlier service and as I live near the entrance without barriers, I boarded without a ticket. To clarify, I am not anti-strike nor do I blame the strikes, this was simply why I was running late. It was entirely my fault.

Once on the train, I tried to get a ticket on my phone but there was bad signal and the payment wouldn’t go through. The payment went through just as the inspector came by and he scanned my ticket and rail card.

I apologise for my actions and have learnt from my mistake. Since this incident, I have not failed ‘buy before you board’ and I will not do so in future. I understand the importance of these policies to prevent fare evasion and I fully support them.

If it is amenable you, I would appreciate settling this matter without prosecution. I am happy to pay for any administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you and I apologise again.

Thank you,
[]

 

[Haywain]

And I'm pointing out that in practice, cases where the inspector sold or accepted a valid ticket tend to be the ones that result in a warning.

The letter the OP has received does not look like a warning to me.

 

[furlong]

The letter the OP has received does not look like a warning to me.

But we are also told that it is factually incorrect as already discussed.

 

[Hadders]

Discussion about whether a ticket that has been purchased after boarding is a valid ticket for travel is a very technical area, and this discussion is probably best done in a separate thread. If the OP is intending to reply on this as a defence then I would advise taking specialist advice.

If the OP enages with Chiltern's investigation then I expect they will be offered an out of court settlement which, as long as the settlement is paid, would make the issue go away.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Dear Fraud and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to respond to the Notice of Intended Prosecution with customer reference [].

While I understand that this is by no means a valid reason to board the train without a ticket, I will explain a little how this situation came about.

On April 9th there were train strikes which meant that trains were running a slightly longer service than usual. I was due for an appointment in London and when I checked the trains again, I realised that the service I had intended to get would make me late. I rushed to make the earlier service and as I live near the entrance without barriers, I boarded without a ticket. To clarify, I am not anti-strike nor do I blame the strikes, this was simply why I was running late. It was entirely my fault.

Once on the train, I tried to get a ticket on my phone but there was bad signal and the payment wouldn’t go through. The payment went through just as the inspector came by and he scanned my ticket and rail card.

I apologise for my actions and have learnt from my mistake. Since this incident, I have not failed ‘buy before you board’ and I will not do so in future. I understand the importance of these policies to prevent fare evasion and I fully support them.

If it is amenable you, I would appreciate settling this matter without prosecution. I am happy to pay for any administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you and I apologise again.

Thank you,
[]

"Thank you for giving me the opportunity" sounds false.

Since you say you don't have a valid reason, then perhaps don't waste their time telling them about the irrelevant reason. They have loads of cases to process, and if you want them to decide not to go to court you need to make their life easy...

The last bits are fine in my view.

 

[claw]

I would very much like to make the issue go away.

Thanks I will shorten the explanation. Updated email:

---
Dear Fraud and Prosecutions Team,

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the Notice of Intended Prosecution with customer reference [].

I do not have a valid reason for failing ‘buy before you board’. I mistook the train arrival times due to strikes, which is completely my fault, and rushed to make an earlier service. As I live near the entrance without barriers, I boarded the train without a ticket with the intension of buying it on my phone. I understand that this is unacceptable.

I apologise for my actions and have learnt from my mistake. Since this incident, I have not failed ‘buy before you board’ and I will not do so in future. I understand the importance of these policies to prevent fare evasion and I fully support them.

If it is amenable you, I would appreciate settling this matter without prosecution. I am happy to pay for any administrative costs in dealing with this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you and I apologise again.

Thank you,
[]
---