Butts left Fuming at Haymarket Station

[ainsworth74]

As an aside I've come across many hotels that have stated that it is against the law to smoke on the premises when, in fact, provision has been made in the legislation for certain bedrooms that meet requirements including segregation and ventilation to be designated as 'smoking'.

But surely if they don't have any rooms which meet the requirements then it would be against the law to smoke in that hotel? Obviously if they have smoking rooms then the sign would need modifying but in a hotel with no smoking rooms it seems accurate to me?

 

[Butts]

But surely if they don't have any rooms which meet the requirements then it would be against the law to smoke in that hotel? Obviously if they have smoking rooms then the sign would need modifying but in a hotel with no smoking rooms it seems accurate to me?

Some Hotels still have smoking rooms, indeed I believe Holiday Inn still have such facilities.. They are no different to what they were prior to the legislation coming in. A guests bedroom is not a public area and it is up to the Hotel to decide if people smoke or not.

A lot of businesses seem to be using Laws that don't exist to bamboozle people into believing Smoking Regulations are more draconian than they actually are.

 

[tony_mac]

Some Hotels still have smoking rooms, indeed I believe Holiday Inn still have such facilities.. They are no different to what they were prior to the legislation coming in. A guests bedroom is not a public area and it is up to the Hotel to decide if people smoke or not.

A lot of businesses seem to be using Laws that don't exist to bamboozle people into believing Smoking Regulations are more draconian than they actually are.

It really is more complicated than you think - a hotel room is a place of work so it is covered by the regulations.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/765/contents/made
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/08/02143247/32478

(1) A designated bedroom in a hotel, guest house, inn, hostel or members’ club is not smoke-free.

(2) In this regulation “a designated bedroom” means a room which—

(a)is set apart exclusively for sleeping accommodation;
(b)has been designated in writing by the person having the charge of the premises in which the room is situated as being a room in which smoking is permitted;
(c)has a ceiling and, except for doors and windows, is completely enclosed on all sides by solid, floor-to-ceiling walls;
(d)does not have a ventilation system that ventilates into any other part of the premises (except any other designated bedrooms);
(e)does not have any door that opens onto smoke-free premises which is not mechanically closed immediately after use; and
(f)is clearly marked as a bedroom in which smoking is permitted.

Some hotels do have these facilities and allow smoking, but many do not.

 

[Butts]

It really is more complicated than you think - a hotel room is a place of work so it is covered by the regulations.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/765/contents/made
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2005/08/02143247/32478




Some hotels do have these facilities and allow smoking, but many do not.

That description of a Smoking Room is essentially no different to the facilities that existed prior to 2006/7.

Did you know that The House of Commons and most Royal Palaces are also exempted to some degree, as are Old peoples Homes, Mental Hospitals and Prisons.
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Off topic, but I was on that train today, from New Street to Wigan. Wish I'd known, but then I expect you were in 1st, which was miles from my seat in B .

We should have badges, in case we ever spot another forumite .

Are you not aware "Anoraks" are de rigeur along with a notepad, thermos and pkt of sandwiches

Seriously I did pay £15 to upgrade along with my daughter - I actually had to "wade" through peasant class to obtain my complimentary Drinks from the Shop due to staff shortages. The Guard delivered the Snack Boxes !!

 

[tony_mac]

That description of a Smoking Room is essentially no different to the facilities that existed prior to 2006/7.

That may be true for Scotland - in England we had ventilation systems even before 2006!

Mental Health units in England have banned smoking; prisons are also said to be considering it.

 

[Butts]

That may be true for Scotland - in England we had ventilation systems even before 2006!

Mental Health units in England have banned smoking; prisons are also said to be considering it.

This is indeed a complex area in terms of restrictions.

My main concern as I said was that a fairly senior employee of a TOC operating on a service up here was so woefully ignorant of the difference in regulation between England and Scotland in respect of smoking on open platforms.

When he brings the subject up in the mess he is (hopefully) going to feel a right dickhead when his Scottish Colleagues avail him of the bollock he dropped - albeit unintentionally .

 

[Abpj17]

Holiday Inns are usually pretty big. I'm not sure every hotel can afford separate ventilation systems for smoking vs. non-smoking rooms.

 

[nottsnurse]

Arriva have banned E-Cigs as well.

I'm sure I heard a similar announcement by EMT at Nottingham the other day too.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I'm no fan of smoking and I'm happy that it's banned in so many places. But it's always struck me as a bit mean that smokers aren't allowed to smoke on platforms outside of any canopies or waiting shelters (if no canopy).

I agree. Yes, it isn't pleasant in the main concourse of stations when you have smoke blowing in your face, and it's for this reason why I'm glad the smoking ban came into place, however if one is stood at the extreme end of a platform then it shouldn't be a problem as no one will be down there so it wouldn't affect anyone. I suppose it's all ultimately down to discretion.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

E-cigs are a vague issue, there seem to be a dozen different "reasons" for banning them.

In a restaurant recently I saw a sign saying that since it was a family restaurant, they were banned to "avoid being seen by children as being acceptable".

Most others seem to go down the route of avoiding it looking like people are smoking in case it makes people think they are okay to smoke - in which case, better ban chewing on rolled up white paper or those white candy sticks or lollipop sticks, just in case...

(For the record, I loathe smoking and wish more people would use e-cigs so they can kill themselves but not me)

 

[PHILIPE]

What annoys me is smokers standing in the doorways of pubs and people have to pass through their smoke to get in and out. Even at Wetherspoons pubs with outside smoking area, people still go and stand at the front door.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It is illegal to smoke on any part of the station and people are picked up for it and are fined for doing so. Penalty for smoking on the station is now £80 on the spot. Take note of the posters at Waterloo.

Don't like the non smoking rules/laws,the solution is quite simple, find an alternative mode of transport.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

It is illegal to smoke on any part of the station and people are picked up for it and are fined for doing so. Penalty for smoking on the station is now £80 on the spot. Take note of the posters at Waterloo.

Don't like the non smoking rules/laws,the solution is quite simple, find an alternative mode of transport.

Did you read the OP?

Further, law applies to smoking in an enclosed station building (which would apply to 90% of Waterloo). Byelaw applies to smoking on open platforms. So therefore illegal is not the right word to use here.

 

[Darandio]

It is illegal to smoke on any part of the station and people are picked up for it and are fined for doing so. Penalty for smoking on the station is now £80 on the spot. Take note of the posters at Waterloo.

Don't like the non smoking rules/laws,the solution is quite simple, find an alternative mode of transport.

And as I predicted, the tobacco police have arrived. Seemingly without reading the thread as well! :roll:

 

[fusionblue]

I try to employ a bit of common sense - if its at the far end of the platform not bothering anybody i don't mind.

What i do mind (and this doesn't apply solely in a railway context) is when people smoke into the path of other people, or smoke and walk. The ash frequently gets in my eyes and burns either my eyes or contact lenses.

As entertaining as it would be, i can't walk around with my eyes shut forever :P

 

[Darandio]

or smoke and walk.

So despite being only able to smoke outside in most cases these days, you also want us to stand still whilst doing so?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

If it's in Scotland they can do what they like. Down here it's different.

No matter which way you look at it smoking isn't the brightest thing in the world to do, as it gives you cancer, emphysema, bronchitis etc, etc, etc.

As a point,two employees have been dismissed for smoking on platforms (open) and OK,they subsequently won their jobs back on appeal,but it proves that if you're stupid enough to smoke either at work in the cabs, messrooms, toilets,waiting rooms & so on, you can only get your just desserts.

If you don't like the laws or bylaws, don't travel. Simples!

 

[Darandio]

If it's in Scotland they can do what they like

Which is exactly what the thread is about, all the rest of your post is straight from the department of the obvious. Apart from the needless insult, that is.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Which is exactly what the thread is about, all the rest of your post is straight from the department of the obvious. Apart from the needless insult, that is.

Well...I'm sorry,but it just needles me the way smokers going on all the time about being persecuted & picked on all of the time. It gets on me bleedin' wick! :roll:

Best thing of all don't smoke. You won't get pestered or use an electronic one, for some reason they don't take any action on them!

 

[fusionblue]

So despite being only able to smoke outside in most cases these days, you also want us to stand still whilst doing so?

It would make avoiding the smoke (and ash, and by extension the eye troubles it causes) a whole lot easier

For the people that i know that smoke i only ask them if i can step over here out of the way and they are OK with it. Naturally i can't do that in a public environment when walking around as people don't provide loud audible warnings they're about to eject ash like a volcano in a few seconds

 

[reb0118]

When he brings the subject up in the mess he is (hopefully) going to feel a right thickhead when his Scottish Colleagues avail him of the bullock he dropped - albeit unintentionally .

XC Guards don't mix with us mere mortals in the bothy. They have their own lounge (smoke free) in the North Block whaur the high heid yins bide.

I find it quite common to hear both EC & XC guards announce that smoking is banned on all stations that their trains stop at when travelling with them north of Edinburgh. We know that is not the case but the real reasons for this might just be to keep things simple (as the trains are cross border) and also to avoid delays with passengers getting on & off for a fly puff at every station - one of my bug bears.

 

[Chouette]

Mental Health units in England have banned smoking; prisons are also said to be considering it.

Yes, and this is quite a serious issue, as most of the mental health units house some patients who are not allowed to leave unaccompanied by a member of staff. If the staff aren't available, no smoke break. So, on top of the stress of being extremely mentally unwell, and detained against their will, they have to detox from nicotine as well - despite smoking being quite a common and relatively harmless form of stress relief for people with mental health problems.

I detest smoking, but in this particular case the ban just heaps more stress onto people who are already in a really bad place, at no fault of their own.

 

[anme]

If smokers ever think about non-smokers then non-smokers may have some sympathy with smokers

Where do smokers stand outside a station ?, right by the door, a pub ?, right by the door, an office building ?, right by the door, always making non-smokers walk through a cloud of disgusting second hand smoke and fag ends

Sympathy and understanding for smokers ?, earn it first people

I seriously hope you do not drive a car.

 

[richw]

E-cigs are a vague issue, there seem to be a dozen different "reasons" for banning them.

Someone sat next to me on a FGW HST a few weeks ago using an e cgi and my throat felt awful and I got nauseous from the vapour. I'd rather the other passenger lit up a real fag to be honest I felt so bad from the vapour he was giving off.

Yes I know FGW ban e cigs but the TM walked by twice without saying a word.

 

[ExRes]

I seriously hope you do not drive a car.

Say what you mean or don't bother quoting me
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I seriously hope you do not drive a car.

Well fancy, I was just helping the next door neighbour plunge her outside toilet and your witty remark became clear to me

What you forget to do was add a little to your mention of the car, next time try adding, bus, taxi, van, lorry, motorbike, ambulance, scooter, moped, fire engine, police car, combine harvester, mobile fish and chip van, tractor, diesel train, jet aircraft, helicopter, piston aircraft, ship (non-nuclear naturally) and not forgetting the ever reliable motorhome

You could also, of course, tell me how any of these are the same as people deliberately standing outside doors and selfishly blowing their second hand cigarette smoke over everyone trying to use them

 

[Altnabreac]

... also to avoid delays with passengers getting on & off for a fly puff at every station - one of my bug bears.

I've often heard guards on the West Highland Line make announcements about there being time for a smoke at stations if awaiting a passing train.

Probably more practical than punters trying the same thing at Polmont.

 

[455driver]

You could also, of course, tell me how any of these are the same as people deliberately standing outside doors and selfishly blowing their second hand cigarette smoke over everyone trying to use them

I really dont have a problem with people who enjoy a cigarette blowing their second hand by-product (the smoke) over me as long as it is okay if I do the same?

I like a drink, the by-product of this is urine, so do I presume that it is okay if i p+ss all over them?


This is not meant to be a serious post so dont get all ar5ey about it!
On the other hand?

 

[Butts]

I've often heard guards on the West Highland Line make announcements about there being time for a smoke at stations if awaiting a passing train.

Probably more practical than punters trying the same thing at Polmont.

Well that is an extremely civilised action for the Guard to take - wonder if he is popping off to join them

 

[No Fault Found]

Someone sat next to me on a FGW HST a few weeks ago using an e cgi and my throat felt awful and I got nauseous from the vapour. I'd rather the other passenger lit up a real fag to be honest I felt so bad from the vapour he was giving off.

Yes I know FGW ban e cigs but the TM walked by twice without saying a word.

No rail company can ban e-cigarettes as it doesn't contravene the railway byelaws. They tried banning them and realised legally they cannot. All TM's are told to ask customers to stop using them though if they're seen using them.
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I really dont have a problem with people who enjoy a cigarette blowing their second hand by-product (the smoke) over me as long as it is okay if I do the same?

I like a drink, the by-product of this is urine, so do I presume that it is okay if i p+ss all over them?


This is not meant to be a serious post so dont get all ar5ey about it!
On the other hand?

Funny the first time :roll:

 

[Butts]

No rail company can ban e-cigarettes as it doesn't contravene the railway byelaws. They tried banning them and realised legally they cannot. All TM's are told to ask customers to stop using them though if they're seen using them.

Well that's interesting.

I'm sure they would be trying to ban "sweet cigarettes" if they still existed