Busy trains between Milton Keynes & Euston

[eMeS]

My partner joined this train 10.02 Milton Keynes Central to Euston 10.37, from Holyhead via Crewe, yesterday at Milton Keynes to find standing room only, including in the toilets. Anyone know if this is normal? The train manager apologised for the overcrowding. I understand that the First Class coaches were not made available.

I assume it would have been a Super Voyager.

 

[GadgetMan]

With it being Saturday and the run up to Christmas you can expect most services in the late morning/early afternoon for the next 3 Saturdays to be heavily loaded with shoppers going into major cities, and then the same coming out of major cities between 1630 and 1930.

Our railway doesn't have the capacity to deal with peak time/seasonal passenger numbers.

 

[barrykas]

Looking at the timetable, said Virgin service is followed by a 10:05 London Midland service, arriving at Euston at 10:49, which I'd guess may have been less heavily loaded as it's formed from two portions that join at Northampton.

It also appears that the LM service left Milton Keynes before the Virgin one, presumably due to the overcrowding on the latter...

 

[eMeS]

Looking at the timetable, said Virgin service is followed by a 10:05 London Midland service, arriving at Euston at 10:49, which I'd guess may have been less heavily loaded as it's formed from two portions that join at Northampton....

There was a time when we could purchase an "Either/or" ticket but now we have to make a decision for Virgin or LM at the ticket desk, which is some way from the platform, and so impossible to see how many others are already on the platform. The earlier train was chosen as there was an appointment to get to - it wasn't a shopping trip.

Cheers,

 

[Mr Spock]

There was also an England rugby match on which also brings many more people onto the trains to London and lets not forget that LM probably cancelled trains due to staff shortages.

 

[Trog]

LM probably cancelled trains due to staff shortages.

I have been deeply puzzled by how long this problem has been going on.
Surely LM should have been able to buy in some ladders and nice thick cushions for there smaller staff to use by now.

 

[calc7]

There was a time when we could purchase an "Either/or" ticket but now we have to make a decision for Virgin or LM at the ticket desk, which is some way from the platform, and so impossible to see how many others are already on the platform. The earlier train was chosen as there was an appointment to get to - it wasn't a shopping trip.

Cheers,

There is an Any Permitted Off-Peak Day Return but it is more expensive.

 

[tsr]

Anyone know if this is normal?

I've not used this particular service but, as others have implied, such conditions are "normal" during periods of seasonal demand, and, in any case, Virgin's Southbound MKC stops do often result in overcrowding.

One occasion led to me negotiating through approximately 25 people in the single vestibule between me and the wheelchair-accessible toilet. I am used to doing so on crowded Southern services, so I have sufficient skills . Fortunately the toilet was used during the MKC stop, and thus nobody was actually using it as standing room, as they had initially been unable to do so!

I understand that the DfT would very much like further stops at MKC, plus at Nuneaton and Stafford.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That train is a single Voyager, though it could be doubled at Chester or Crewe on a Saturday if VT felt like it.
I know this service attracts day-trippers from Chester and Crewe who use the Super-Saver Saturday return (£36.70 inc Z1-6 Travelcard).
Also loads of football (and on this date rugby) supporters.
When you say "First Class was not made available", there is probably only one coach of First (E).
A second coach (D) can be either First or Standard but on a Saturday I wouldn't have thought this would be First.

 

[calc7]

There's half a chance the single First Class coach was full, anyway. I would not have to think twice about upgrading for only £15 from North Wales to London.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

When they are not stealing other people's football teams, the good people of Milton Keynes are demanding more and more inter city services.

Yesterday I was on a Holyhead - Euston service which arrived in MK filled to capacity in both first and second class, but with virtually nobody standing. Then fifty or so people piled on at MK to stand all the way to London when there were plenty of empty seats they could have had on London Midland trains.

I travel from Chester to London a lot on business and it is a struggle to get a seat at Euston because of all the MK commuters filling up "our" train. They won't even serve you your complimentary drinks in first class till they get off.

In my opinion, MK should be like Watford Junction. Southbound trains should stop to set down only and northbound trains should stop to pick up only. Long-distance travellers should not have to battle for seats with London commuters.

 

[dk1]

All routes into London where very busy yesterday. On Anglia many Intercity services where full & standing not helped by a broken rail near Chelmsford. The 08.00 ex-Norwich left passengers behind at Colchester, the 09.30 had 350 reservations & was then cancelled, the 10.00 was full from Ipswich & 10.30 full from Colchester.

 

[generalvegitable]

When they are not stealing other people's football teams, the good people of Milton Keynes are demanding more and more inter city services.

the MK Dons are doing far far better now than they ever were in Wimbledon, and the MK Lions Basketball team are moving into the basketball court in the Olympic village, seems like a fair trade doesn't it?

Yesterday I was on a Holyhead - Euston service which arrived in MK filled to capacity in both first and second class, but with virtually nobody standing. Then fifty or so people piled on at MK to stand all the way to London when there were plenty of empty seats they could have had on London Midland trains.

So your train was full and standing after a football match? And it just happened to be the quickest one into London at the time? Put yourself in their shoes, would you rather get home sooner on an express train (with onboard catering) or get home later on an all shacks with no catering?

I travel from Chester to London a lot on business and it is a struggle to get a seat at Euston because of all the MK commuters filling up "our" train. They won't even serve you your complimentary drinks in first class till they get off.

Its as much our train is it is your's. Anyway Milton Keynes is one of the fastest growing large towns in the UK (we should be a city), and has a population of roughly 200,000, Reading for example has every intercity train calling at it and only has about 155,000 people (according to Wikipedia), so how is it fair that a smaller town has a much better intercity service where every Intercity train that goes through there stops?

In my opinion, MK should be like Watford Junction. Southbound trains should stop to set down only and northbound trains should stop to pick up only. Long-distance travellers should not have to battle for seats with London commuters.

What about the leisure travellers? what about those travelling long distances? what about those with large luggage, now forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't pendolinos and voyagers better at swallowing up luggage than 350s? after all they do have those massive luggage compartments at the ends? Should Reading be pick up/set down only in the peaks?


I'm sorry if I seem angry but as a proud resident of Milton Keynes I feel I must state my views to this, if I had my way a lot more intercity trains would stop at Milton Keynes Central

 

[Cherry_Picker]

the MK Dons are doing far far better now than they ever were in Wimbledon, and the MK Lions Basketball team are moving into the basketball court in the Olympic village, seems like a fair trade doesn't it?

Without meaning to derail, no they arent. Unless they have had fifteen years in the Premier League and won the FA cup and I've just not noticed. MK Dons are the most loathsome team in the league.

Anyhoo, MK station is another matter entirely. It serves a huge town (It's bigger than Derby and Norwich, isnt it?) and given that the overwhelming majority of people who live in Milton Keynes arent actually from Milton Keynes then there is a strong argument that they are more deserving of a good intercity service than almost any other town or city because so many people who live there have roots in other parts of the country and therefore a good rail connection is going to be appreciated.
Obviously there are a lot of people just using the fast service as an express train to commute to London and it's difficult to persuede them to catch the semi fast because it isnt such a nice train (in theory of course, I'd much rather sit on a lightly loaded semi fast than stand on an rammed express just to save 10-15 minutes) but I'm not sure denying MK the decent intercity service it so clearly deserves is the answer.

Its as much our train is it is your's. Anyway Milton Keynes is one of the fastest growing large towns in the UK (we should be a city), and has a population of roughly 200,000, Reading for example has every intercity train calling at it and only has about 155,000 people (according to Wikipedia), so how is it fair that a smaller town has a much better intercity service where every Intercity train that goes through there stops?

I do think you are barking up the wrong tree with that argument though. Reading is a major junction and one of the busiest interchanges in the country, which is why the number of passengers who use the station is so astonishingly high.

 

[generalvegitable]

Without meaning to derail, no they arent. Unless they have had fifteen years in the Premier League and won the FA cup and I've just not noticed. MK Dons are the most loathsome team in the league.

just shows how reliable some of my mates are. they're the ones who told me that the Dons are doing well compared to their past :roll:

I do think you are barking up the wrong tree with that argument though. Reading is a major junction and one of the busiest interchanges in the country, which is why the number of passengers who use the station is so astonishingly high.

OK bad example, but its the only comparison I could think of at the time, that'll teach me for using local population instead of usage figures

 

[IanD]

In my opinion, MK should be like Watford Junction. Southbound trains should stop to set down only and northbound trains should stop to pick up only. Long-distance travellers should not have to battle for seats with London commuters.

The commuters of MK were promised a much improved service after the WCML upgrade. Instead, after 2 years of an appaling service during the upgrade, we were left with no fast trains at peak times thanks to Virgin High Frequency service and London Midland terminated one of their services at Tring.

Milton Keynes must be the only "commuter" station that gets its best service during the off peak, non-commuter hours.

 

[Squaddie]

Milton Keynes is one of the fastest growing large towns in the UK (we should be a city), and has a population of roughly 200,000, Reading for example has every intercity train calling at it and only has about 155,000 people (according to Wikipedia), so how is it fair that a smaller town has a much better intercity service where every Intercity train that goes through there stops?

It's probably simply because Reading is a major interchange station whereas Milton Keynes isn't.

 

[tractakid]

I haven't looked at the timetable in detail yet- but there will be one express London Midland train per hour to Euston after the new timetable, 09:00 then 10:14 onwards. An email came through today advertising it. It's from Crewe, and is a fairly slow train until Milton Keynes, which is the last stop before Euston. 37 minutes travel time.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

So your train was full and standing after a football match? And it just happened to be the quickest one into London at the time? Put yourself in their shoes, would you rather get home sooner on an express train (with onboard catering) or get home later on an all shacks with no catering?

Sorry I think you misunderstand me. I was on the 0835 Virgin train from Chester (ex Holyhead) to Euston when a comfortable second class carriage was turned into a sardine can when loads of people, probably shoppers, piled in at MK Central instead of taking a local train.

Why pay more to stand, even if it does save a few minutes?

In countries like Germany, there is a large enough fare differential to discourage short distance travellers off ICE trains. If this doesn't work, then maybe MK should indeed be a "stop to set down" only station.

The present overcrowding situation doesn't help either group of passengers. The train only had 3 and a bit second class carriages - some times they put two units on, but not yesterday.

I also feel sorry for people joining trains at places like Stockport (TP east) & Coventry (XC south) which always arrive ram jam full.

 

[tsr]

Reading for example has every intercity train calling at it

To the very best of my knowledge, that's factually untrue, but I'll let you off just this once!

...if I had my way a lot more intercity trains would stop at Milton Keynes Central

As I posted prior to this comment, I believe the DfT feel the same way and are likely to encourage this in the near-ish future.

 

[IanD]

I was on the 0835 Virgin train from Chester (ex Holyhead) to Euston when a comfortable second class carriage was turned into a sardine can when loads of people, probably shoppers, piled in at MK Central instead of taking a local train.
....
Why pay more to stand, even if it does save a few minutes?

They are probably not paying more to stand. As previously mentioned in this thead the virgin and london midland only tickets are the same price but you have to make your mind up before you get to the platform. Given the choice of 3 virgin trains an hour that take 35 minute out/30 back or 3 London Midland trains an hour that take 37, 45 and 59+ each way then the choice is really made for you. A possible 50% saving in journey time is hardly "a few minutes."

Overcrowding is a deficiency of the rail industry not the passengers. If you want a seat and not to be bothered by people standing next to you then you should investigate the possibility of flying from Chester to London or takng the coach.

And since when have shoppers been "commuters"?

 

[Westboy]

I travel from Chester to London a lot on business and it is a struggle to get a seat at Euston because of all the MK commuters filling up "our" train. They won't even serve you your complimentary drinks in first class till they get off.

In my opinion, MK should be like Watford Junction. Southbound trains should stop to set down only and northbound trains should stop to pick up only. Long-distance travellers should not have to battle for seats with London commuters.

God forbid the commuters who travel every day and pay a small fortune for the privellege should get on a train that stops and goes to their destination. How rude!

No, what is clearly more important is that the ocassional traveller traveller from the north should be able to glide into nd out London on an empty train unemcbumered by these working oiks from MK. :roll:

 

[cle]

God forbid the commuters who travel every day and pay a small fortune for the privellege should get on a train that stops and goes to their destination. How rude!

No, what is clearly more important is that the ocassional traveller traveller from the north should be able to glide into nd out London on an empty train unemcbumered by these working oiks from MK. :roll:

Haha good point. MK season tickets subsidise the railways for retired, pampered baby-boomers hitting the theatre on cheap weekender tickets.

 

[bnsf734]

Looking at the timetable, said Virgin service is followed by a 10:05 London Midland service, arriving at Euston at 10:49, which I'd guess may have been less heavily loaded as it's formed from two portions that join at Northampton.

It also appears that the LM service left Milton Keynes before the Virgin one, presumably due to the overcrowding on the latter...

Having used that London Midland service many times in the past, I would imagine the 10:05 service would be very full as well. It is busy even when England are not playing Rugby or Xmas is coming.

 

[MK Tom]

I would discourage people from thinking of MK as being the same kind of 'near London' as Watford. Watford is about three miles away from the border. There is no station this far from London that has set-down only services into London in Britain to my knowledge.

When I go to London I always choose Virgin if their early evening finishes or peak times don't prevent me. It's all very well getting one of the faster LM services if timings allow but most (all later) evening LM services back stop EVERYWHERE. It takes over an hour when you're stopping at Kings Langley and all that. Plus a 350/2 is an exceptionally uncomfortable thing to travel on and the few times I've gone down on a not-Virgin ticket I've come back via Kensington with Southern just for a more comfortable ride. They accept LM tickets on the WCML. Also Watford is set-down only because it has two extra LM services as well as three Overground and countless Underground services into London.

More MKC stops are on the cards (apparently another Birmingham service every other hour?) but that's going to be delayed by the franchising cock-up I expect.

 

[The Ham]

Its as much our train is it is your's. Anyway Milton Keynes is one of the fastest growing large towns in the UK (we should be a city), and has a population of roughly 200,000, Reading for example has every intercity train calling at it and only has about 155,000 people (according to Wikipedia), so how is it fair that a smaller town has a much better intercity service where every Intercity train that goes through there stops?

You have to be careful arguing population numbers, as although Reading "only" has a population of 155,000 however if you include the Reading/Wokingham Urban Area the population jumps to 370,000 (2001 census, so likely to be much higher than that now).

 

[tractakid]

They (Southern) accept LM tickets on the WCML.

I did not know this. So I can use 'London Midland ONLY' on Southern? that saves some good money. If you plonk in MKC to KPA on the NR website it will sell you an 'any route permitted' ticket.

I thought the best way to do it was to split the ticket at Bletchley.

 

[yorkie]

the MK Dons are doing far far better now than they ever were in Wimbledon,

The original comments by Old Yard Dog stand as far as I am concerned. MK were never in Wimbledon, but let's not get off-topic, especially about such an emotive topic (there is a thread for that in General Discussion!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry I think you misunderstand me. I was on the 0835 Virgin train from Chester (ex Holyhead) to Euston when a comfortable second class carriage was turned into a sardine can when loads of people, probably shoppers, piled in at MK Central instead of taking a local train....

Same train as eMeS' partner then!

People will not take a local train if they have paid for the "Any Permitted" (or even Virgin Only) fare and it's quicker!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I did not know this. So I can use 'London Midland ONLY' on Southern? t

Not that I know of! They are both owned by the same parent company (Govia) so it is possible there is an unofficial acceptance by guards, or an official acceptance that is not advertised.

 

[87015]

Why pay more to stand, even if it does save a few minutes?

Its not more expensive, its the same price or cheaper. As Virgin WANT the passengers and the revenue then they should be providing proper capacity not stupid short DMUs up and down the WCML.

Plus, LM are truly crap which doesn't help.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Let's face it, five-car Voyagers are not big enough to carry both Chester / N. Wales and MK passengers into London. Maybe some of the high frequency Manchester pendolinos should stop at MK instead (if they don't already?)

But Chester/NWales need stops somewhere on the WCML to make connections. I'd prefer Nuneaton for the east and local services southwards, and Watford Jn for southern region and Gatwick.

Actually its amazing how bad VT's connections at Nuneaton are for travellers to Peterborough, Cambridge & Stansted. I would have gone via Liverpool & Nuneaton on Saturday instead of via Chester & London if it hadn't involved almost an hour's wait at such a boring station, long before the wonderful real ale pub nearby opened.