The previous thread has been locked, so here's a new one. I've noticed that TfL buses are now appearing on the map. This is the area around Victoria for example.
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Andy Pacer
Established Member
Interesting development, thanks for sharing. Years ago I used to use the other tracker for TfL (can't remember the name now or the URL) where you could search by fleet number, stop or route but obviously had no map function.
Great to see this - I was wondering if TfL buses would ever be added to this. As I understand it, TfL has completely different tracking systems to the rest of the UK, which is the reason it wasn’t on there before. I’m glad a solution was found, and it now adds a big piece to the puzzle. The majority of operators seem to be on there now, but still quite a few to go.
gka472l
Member
I think the main large operators not showing are the First operations in Wales & Scotland, although they have tracked in the past, albeit briefly.....
They'll not track until their respective governments make it a requirement I'm afraid. Rather backwards approach if you ask me...not like they use different equipment to their English operations.
gka472l
Member
Indeed, although Stagecoach and Arriva track everywhere including Scotland & Wales, plus others like Lothian & McGills......
RomeoCharlie71
Established Member
I was told back in January that First would be looking into this over the course of this year: https://twitter.com/FirstManchester/status/1354368719322046465?s=20
The location data for Lothian and McGills (and every other Scottish operator that tracks, bar Stagecoach) doesn't come from the Bus Open Data Service, though
That's garbage, doesn't take a year to get Scottish operations data sorted... They'll kick the can down the road until they're forced to act. Although I do appreciate they've a lot of other more important things to deal with at this time...
Andy Pacer
Established Member
Is it a government requirement in England then?
markymark2000
On Moderation
The biggest issue here is that it costs a lot of money. Ticketer is something like £100 per machine, per year I think it was. For First Cymru that is over £25k per year. May not seem like much to a big operator but with all of the losses and now trying to recover financially, £25k is a lot of money to put on something that you have no obligation to do, just doing it because you can.
I think it's worth noting as well how few people seem to know about live tracking apps. There are still people to this day who are completely baffled by the fact that their buses track online and you can see it moving on the screen. Adding to that, there aren't many live tracking apps which show multiple operators. Bustimes and BusRadar are the only two that I know of which use the open data. MyTrip by Passenger shows live tracking but only for operators who sell tickets through it's platform. I don't think that many places have worked out that open data is around and if they do know, they don't know how to use it yet or haven't adapted to using it. Right now, live tracking multiple operators is more of an enthusiasts thing, not a widespread, used by the public, thing. Operators own apps seem to be where people go to and even then, the numbers who know of and make use of the feature seems to be very small.
Yes
johncrossley
Established Member
I know quite a few non-enthusiasts in London who have long been aware of tracking. Even when accessing the countdown.tfl.gov.uk website was the main way of doing it. Scotland and Wales are now over 10 years behind London. Quite a few places in Europe had it long before London.
Something I've noticed recently (maybe about 6 months) both First and Arriva used to showed which depot the bus is based (excluding Outstations where bus is based, for example a Arriva bus in Macclesfield outstation, would show as Winsford depot), now they have stopped.
Mosr Stagecoach/Gi Ahead show which garage the bus is based
Mosr Stagecoach/Gi Ahead show which garage the bus is based
Some First companies still do (Bristol for instance). It depends if somebody is willing to update the bustimes database with the information, and if what they update it with is correct.
markymark2000
On Moderation
There are some people who know, I am not saying it isn't known about because it 100% is. The numbers though are quite low I would say in comparison to the amount of people using buses.
Most 'Depot' data used to be inputted by users. The owner amended it so that it was taken automatically from the operators AVL data and so if the operators doesn't specify that data, it isn't given out to the open data. That is why you will find that you can't edit the 'depot' anymore.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
National Express West Midlands haven't been tracking since 16th December. Any plans for them to return soon?
markymark2000
On Moderation
It's down to NXWMs bus open data. Bustimes doesn't pick and choose operators to and not to track, it's via the bus open data.
Andy Pacer
Established Member
I'd noticed Nottingham City Transport hadn't been tracking as well where it used to before although I notice from BODS (Bus Open Data) that their data is inactive and undergoing validation.
jay38a
Member
I think us at Aircoach are the only Operations outside the the UK to track on bus times.
As we're not in the UK I guess it just gets the tracking information straight from ticketer information?
As we're not in the UK I guess it just gets the tracking information straight from ticketer information?
150249
Established Member
Have first South Wales or first Glasgow forbidden the tracking of their buses or have bustimes.org just not gotten round to it yet?
GusB
Established Member
Answered earlier in the thread
150249
Established Member
Oh sorry, I'm not the most attentive.Answered earlier in the thread
From tracking my local buses it seems a complete mess. I have seen buses reporting as running in the opposite direction to the movement on the map or reporting as being on a different route to the one they are following.
I assume that this is down to drivers not pressing the right buttons on the ticket machine rather that with the site.
I assume that this is down to drivers not pressing the right buttons on the ticket machine rather that with the site.
150249
Established Member
In exeter the 48010 and 36247 just don't show up and occasionally the 36229 reappears in the Indian ocean.
ValleyLines142
Established Member
I'm aware. Hoping it returns soon.It's down to NXWMs bus open data. Bustimes doesn't pick and choose operators to and not to track, it's via the bus open data.
Does anyone know the root cause of this? Looking on the DfT website it looks like they pushed an update to the validator some time in mid-December, I'm wondering if this has resulted in several feeds now being flagged as invalid and therefore not entered on to the open data system? Or it could just be that the validator wasn't properly tested.
Either way, if this is the cause then a quick roll back to the previous version would surely be a quick fix. Even if the data incoming isn't valid then surely a roll-back until it can be fixed would be a sensible idea so passengers have access to tracking again. Rural areas are a big issue here as buses are infrequent and they are often served by smaller operators who don't have their own tracking front end.
Either way, if this is the cause then a quick roll back to the previous version would surely be a quick fix. Even if the data incoming isn't valid then surely a roll-back until it can be fixed would be a sensible idea so passengers have access to tracking again. Rural areas are a big issue here as buses are infrequent and they are often served by smaller operators who don't have their own tracking front end.
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