Bushey to Shepherds Bush

[Tibbs]

Another thread on here got me thinking.

Soon I'm going to be moving and my local station will be Bushey and/or Watford High Street. However, every once in a while I'll be travelling down to Shepherds Bush.

By the looks of it the quickest way will be to go up to Watford Junction and then the Southern Service to SB, rather than Overground (or LM) from Bushey to Harrow & Wealdstone.

If I change my current season ticket from a 1-10 to a 1-9, will my 1-9 be valid for Bushey-Watford-Shepherds Bush? I know from reading that you only have to touch in & out at your entry and exit station, but on the other hand Watford is in a 'Special Fares Zone' so I didn't know if it had exceptions. There are readers within Watford Junction station, which I assume are for people changing at WFJ to go onto the St Albans line or for going further North than Watford without having to go through the barriers, but I don't know if you have to use them if you're remaining within the Oyster Area.

Any ideas?

 

[bb21]

No. If you use a zonal Travelcard season rather than Oyster PAYG, your season must cover all zones you travel through.

You only need Zones 1-8 if going to Bushey or Watford High Street avoiding Watford Junction.

 

[island]

But Oyster cards are valid by any route as long as you touch in and touch out at the beginning and end of all of your journeys, no?

 

[bb21]

Yes, but the question is "will my 1-9 be valid for Bushey-Watford-Shepherds Bush", and the answer is a resounding no.

If the OP always touches in at the beginning of the journey and touches out at the end of the journey, he might get away with paying a lower fare.

 

[soil]

I didn't think there was a zone 10.

WFJ is Zone W

Bushey is Zone 8.

Z1-8 is £71.20/wk
Z1-9 is £79/wk
Zone 1-9+W is £79.20/wk

So you might assume just to buy the Z1-9+W.

HOWEVER,

I'm not sure at what point BSH-WFJ-SPB is faster than BSH-WIJ-SPB. NRE suggests otherwise:

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/BSH/SPB/tomorrow/1145/dep

And given that this is so, if you travel from BSH-SPB via WFJ (why you would want to, I'm not clear), then you are not going to be charged for a Zone 8-W single (£1.60/£1.50), and so you can just go with Z1-8 (Z9 is Amersham and Chesham only), and save £8/wk. Since your Oyster is validated at BSH, and presumably has some credit on it, there's no reason you shouldn't go via WFJ, since you have a valid ticket for BSH - WFJ, if you were to exit there.

If you can keep out of Zone 1, then a WFJ - London Zone 2-6 is £53.60/wk btw.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No. If you use a zonal Travelcard season rather than Oyster PAYG, your season must cover all zones you travel through.

No that's not the case.

If I live in Northolt and work in Shepherd's Bush, I might buy a £30.20/wk Z2-5 season.

If I were one day to travel to Leyton, then I'd be charged £2.10, because my journey goes through Zone 1.

If I were to travel EVERY day to Leyton, I'd still be charged £2.10 each time.

Nothing wrong with that at all (and with a weekly 1-5 more than £2.10 * 10 more expensive, reasonably logical too).

In this case because via WFJ is not a logical route, you won't be charged for the detour (you could buy a z1-8 season for travel from WFJ, no problem, and you would be charged a Z8-W single each journey).

 

[jb]

So if I read the above right, you could use Watford Junction if you have PAYG credit on your Oyster effectively by saying "I would use PAYG if I were to exit there".

So by the same token does this mean a Z2-6 (say) is OK for traversing Z1 if you have PAYG credit on it?

 

[yorkie]

If I change my current season ticket from a 1-10 to a 1-9, will my 1-9 be valid for Bushey-Watford-Shepherds Bush?

As mentioned in a few threads recently, you MUST ensure you touch in & out correctly and have sufficient PAYG balance (I strongly advise auto-topup, and check your journey history online for any unexpected charges) if going outside the Zones on your Travelcard. And, of course, stay within the overall Oyster area.

In reality I don't expect you will be charged, but if you are caught at WFJ without being touched in, you will be in trouble. So be very careful to always touch in!!

 

[bb21]

No that's not the case.

You have missed my point completely.

 

[causton]

So if I read the above right, you could use Watford Junction if you have PAYG credit on your Oyster effectively by saying "I would use PAYG if I were to exit there".

So by the same token does this mean a Z2-6 (say) is OK for traversing Z1 if you have PAYG credit on it?

Not really, no.

The fact is that if you draw the shortest route from Bushey/WHS to Shepherds Bush it avoids Watford Junction, therefore Oyster doesn't know they've travelled via Watford Junction.

If you travel through Zone 1 and exit, they know you've travelled through Z1 because you've exited at a Zone 1 station
If you travel through Zone 1, out the other side and exit, they know you've travelled through Zone 1 because you've not touched a pink route validator.

I don't know if you could get away with touching a pink reader, getting on the next (or same!) train into Zone 1 then changing in Z1 and exiting in an outer zone again to avoid that, but that's a different query

 

[soil]

So if I read the above right, you could use Watford Junction if you have PAYG credit on your Oyster effectively by saying "I would use PAYG if I were to exit there".

So by the same token does this mean a Z2-6 (say) is OK for traversing Z1 if you have PAYG credit on it?

Yes it is, but you will typically be charged.

Example:

Holding a Z2-6 travel from Kentish Town to Loughborough Junction on FCC - you will be charged £2.10 http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/f...oughborough+Junction+[National+Rail]&ft=Adult

Contraexample:
West Hampstead Overground - Peckham Rye via Shoreditch High Street (Z1) (http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/servi...PMR/today/1330/dep?via=Shoreditch_High_Street)

you will be charged nothing:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/f...d+[London+Overground]&dn=Peckham+Rye&ft=Adult

 

[Tibbs]

Changing at Willesden Junction results in a ~50% longer journey than even changing at H&W. you also have to travel for almost an hour in side facing seats and that's just miserable.

I'm looking to get the train that leaves Watford at 7:23am. It starts there so I'm guaranteed a seat. At the moment you can get a seat at H&W but since the service started in jan it's been getting busier & busier as people move off the rammed 7:38.

i want to avoid the he interchange at Willesden as it's horrible, and you're jammed in like a sardine between there and SB.

Looking at the exact time I want to travel, I need to get the 7:15 from Bushey to make the 7:23 from wfj at H&W, so the point is essentially moot, but it would be nice to be able to go back to High Street without having to take a long overground journey or changing more than once.

 

[yorkie]

I don't know if you could get away with touching a pink reader, getting on the next (or same!) train into Zone 1 then changing in Z1 and exiting in an outer zone again to avoid that, but that's a different query

There are certain journeys where that is apparently possible, and undercover RPIs might possibly be on the lookout for that happening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So by the same token does this mean a Z2-6 (say) is OK for traversing Z1 if you have PAYG credit on it?

You are entitled to combine a Travelcard on Oyster with Oyster PAYG, on the same Oyster card, providing you touch in & out correctly (as stated in the Oyster Conditions of Use) and have sufficient PAYG balance.

Usually it will charge you for the extra Zones you travel to/from/through, and no more and no less. But in some cases it will charge more*, and in some cases it will charge less. In cases where you are charged more, you can apply for a refund through the Oyster helpdesk.

(* for example a Zone 1-4 Travelcard holder who travels to/from Zone 5 on a "mixed mode including Zone 1" journey will be charged the premium, but if they "split" or broke the OSI, they would not be charged the premium. The Oyster Helpdesk would refund the premium)

 

[barrykas]

Slightly worryingly, The Manual suggests that a PF is payable if you're travelling outside the zones covered by your Travelcard and an entry charge wasn't deducted when you touched in!

The flaw in that logic being that if you started your journey in the are covered by your Travelcard, you usually won't have an entry charge deducted...

 

[island]

Does that date back to OEP days perhaps?

 

[MikeWh]

Slightly worryingly, The Manual suggests that a PF is payable if you're travelling outside the zones covered by your Travelcard and an entry charge wasn't deducted when you touched in!

The flaw in that logic being that if you started your journey in the are covered by your Travelcard, you usually won't have an entry charge deducted...

I've noticed that before and commented. It hasn't been updated since the demise of the OEP.

Going back to the original query. A zone 1-8 travelcard season is NOT valid for travel via Watford Junction. If that is all you have on your Oyster card (ie no PAYG balance) then you might be in difficulty if checked beyond zone 8. However, as long as you have sufficient credit and touch in at the start of your journey and out at the end then you will have no problems. The Oyster system decides what to charge based on the likely route taken given the touches provided and taking account of any travelcards held.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does that date back to OEP days perhaps?

Beat me to it ... damn!

 

[johnnycache]

I have checked this with TfL. Bushey to Shepherd's Bush via Watford Junction would be ok on a zone 2-8 Travelcard (on oyster not on paper) with or without a PAYG balance.

 

[Deerfold]

I have checked this with TfL. Bushey to Shepherd's Bush via Watford Junction would be ok on a zone 2-8 Travelcard (on oyster not on paper) with or without a PAYG balance.

I wouldn't like to try it without documentation saying it was fine - especially as if you get checked at Watford Junction it won't be by TfL.

Not to mention how easy it is to make sure you have a bit of PAYG credit on the card.

 

[MikeWh]

I have checked this with TfL. Bushey to Shepherd's Bush via Watford Junction would be ok on a zone 2-8 Travelcard (on oyster not on paper) with or without a PAYG balance.

I agree with this in principle. Personally I would have enough PAYG credit to allow me to exit at Watford Junction if circumstances changed for whatever reason. Absolutely essential is touching in at Bushey of course, but that should be all that is required to validate the card for making the journey.

 

[Tibbs]

I agree with this in principle. Personally I would have enough PAYG credit to allow me to exit at Watford Junction if circumstances changed for whatever reason. Absolutely essential is touching in at Bushey of course, but that should be all that is required to validate the card for making the journey.

I've had £8 of PAYG credit since I put my season ticket on last year. Looks like this will put it to some use!