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Buses that the Pacer is based on?

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Busaholic

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I don't believe there are any Leyland Nationals still in day-to-day service in the U.K. Very few, comparatively, have been preserved because they are hardly anybody's favourite bus. A bit like the train derivatives!
 
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Ash Bridge

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The other way round slightly. The first HSFV was the testbed for fundamental research into wheel/rail interactions and vehicle dynamics from first principles. It was gound breaking work and HSFV1 should have had pride of place at the NRM but it wasnt pretty enough.

In the early sixties few freight trains exceeded forty mph and spent hours sitting in loops letting expresses go by. Few expresses exceeded eighty mph - at 90 you really knew about it. The drive was on for long distance fast freights that could keep up with the passengers but there were too many derailments.

Hence the dynamics lab at the research centre in Derby. I joined just as initial work had been done on ideal wheel profiles and one of the first things I was shown was the test rig.

Next step was to determine the dynamics in six degrees of freedom of four-wheeled chassis. One outcome was that instability became worse with longer wheelbases hence the increasing use of bogies even on goods wagons. The upshot was a wagon chassis that could be variously loaded to test its suspension - HSFV1 which achieved 140mph on the test rig.

There were subsequent HSFV derivatives but, more importantly the fundamental principle brought to light form Chapter One of today's railway engineers textbook.

It have always wondered what the dept thought of being asked to design a four wheeled railcar, but I guess they had their arms twisted. Politics you know. But the rideworthiness of the Pacers is nor more or no less than you can expect.

Incidentally HSFV1 still exists at the Coventry Electric Railway Museum and it has recently been announced that, in time, it will go to Shildon to join the APT

Thanks for sharing that, good to hear from someone in the know and not just an armchair enthusiast like myself.
 

455driver

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I don't believe there are any Leyland Nationals still in day-to-day service in the U.K. Very few, comparatively, have been preserved because they are hardly anybody's favourite bus. A bit like the train derivatives!

One of my former colleagues owns/owned a mark 1 National, rather good condition as well!
 

thenorthern

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Where would you say is the home of the Pacer, Leeds or Manchester? I would say Leeds but I know others will say Manchester.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Where would you say is the home of the Pacer, Leeds or Manchester? I would say Leeds but I know others will say Manchester.

Derby, actually! ;)

Leeds had 141s long before Manchester got any 142s, though the first batch of 142s was delivered to Newton Heath.
 

dakta

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As a kid I remember seeing several 141's. Never actually got a ride of one but will if I ever get the chance. I have a bit of respect for the whole family.

It might not be testament to the pacer's strengths that they've had the career they've had, but they've played a massive part in local travel in the northern regions for as long as I've been alive. I'll be the first to admit to being a bit sentimental about these things, simply on the basis of 'once its gone its gone' rather than what material aspects have actually been lost! That said, it does seem that moment isn't going to be too soon!

Very interesting pics of the busses that are related to the pacers. cheers.
 

thenorthern

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According to John Pugh MP the way Pacers are designed is very dangerous and they should be immediately withdrawn because of it. Its strange how a man with a degree in Philosophy could know so much about how rolling stock engineering works.

Back to the main point is the engine used on the pacer based on a bus engine?
 

Busaholic

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The bodyshells of 141s and 142s are based on Leyland Nationals, but 143s and 144s were loosely based on a bus from Alexander, not sure which though. I don't think the bus version sold many more than the train version, despite being considerably more modern than the National, which was already starting to be phased out by the time the pacers entered squadron service.

The 141 was the only version to use the standard-width Leyland National body, albeit with strengthened ends. Hence the 2+2 seating arrangement. The 142 had a widened version of this body i.e. not one that ever appeared in bus form.
 

sprinterguy

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Back to the main point is the engine used on the pacer based on a bus engine?
Originally, yes, the Pacers were fitted with Leyland TL11 engines, a variant of the same engine fitted to Leyland Tiger buses and coaches. All have since been retro-fitted, as DT611 says, with Cummins engines.
 
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