Buses receiving damage after road remodelling

[birchesgreen]

Moderator note: Split from

UK Street design and street furniture, do you like how it’s changed over the years? Why? Why not?

Sometimes I like going on Google maps and looking at how streets have changed over the years. One thing I notice about roads is that in the last 20 years they seem less colourful. As in red isn’t used for the bus lane, the traffic crossing and bike box isn’t colour coded again. I think less...

www.railforums.co.uk

A nearby side road junction (Kingsbury Road / Spring Lane) was remodelled recently, much tighter with a lot of bollards now due to improved safety for pedestrians, which is fine.

Unfortunately, road works elsewhere mean the 96 bus has been diverted along that way. I've seen at least two buses stuck and damaged within the last couple of weeks.

 

[Silent]

A nearby side road junction (Kingsbury Road / Spring Lane) was remodelled recently, much tighter with a lot of bollards now due to improved safety for pedestrians, which is fine. Unfortunately, road works elsewhere mean the 96 bus has been diverted along that way. I've seen at least 2 buses stuck and damaged within the last couple of weeks.

I don’t know the junction but why not rely more on safer traffic lights instead of a narrower road

 

[JamesT]

I don’t know the junction but why not rely more on safer traffic lights instead of a narrower road

I took from what @birchesgreen said that it’s the junction itself rather than the roads being narrowed. It’s a trend in road design for residential areas to make the corner be closer to a right angle than a big sweeping curve. This forces drivers to slow down to be able to make the turn.

 

[birchesgreen]

I took from what @birchesgreen said that it’s the junction itself rather than the roads being narrowed. It’s a trend in road design for residential areas to make the corner be closer to a right angle than a big sweeping curve. This forces drivers to slow down to be able to make the turn.

Yes thats what they did, plus added a lot of bollards.

 

[Silent]

Yes thats what they did, plus added a lot of bollards.

Why do you think they make turns sharper? Who does it benefit. I don’t drive.

 

[JamesT]

Why do you think they make turns sharper? Who does it benefit. I don’t drive.

https://archive.strongtowns.org/journal/2023/5/16/how-the-design-of-corners-affects-speed is written from an American POV, but seems to be a reasonable summary of the reasoning behind it. The benefit is generally for pedestrians crossing as the traffic has to slow to go round a tighter bend.

 

[gravitystorm]

The benefit is generally for pedestrians crossing as the traffic has to slow to go round a tighter bend.

... and also the angle at which vehicles emerge from side roads.

If you are turning left out of a side road, it's best if you approach the junction at 90 degrees, so that you can more easily look to your right to check for approaching traffic - particularly for bikes that might be near the kerb line (i.e. further right, from your point of view).

If there is a wide junction flare, you naturally start turning left a little earlier, and approach the give way line at an acute angle. This means you have to look further round to the right, back over your shoulder to check for traffic, and there is an increased risk that you don't really look far enough round and/or the B-pillar hides oncoming traffic.

So as well as slowing vehicles down, the tight radii encourages emerging traffic to be closer to 90 degrees, at the go/no-go decision point.

 

[birchesgreen]

Yes its to aid pedestrians, there are a number of schools nearby (including one i went to many many years ago...)

So, yes its probably a good thing but its just a shame NXWM didn't realise it probably wasn't a good diversion route anymore.

 

[yorkie]

A nearby side road junction (Kingsbury Road / Spring Lane) was remodelled recently, much tighter with a lot of bollards now due to improved safety for pedestrians, which is fine. Unfortunately, road works elsewhere mean the 96 bus has been diverted along that way. I've seen at least 2 buses stuck and damaged within the last couple of weeks.

Is this a question of bus driver competency and/or bus driver training?

Is it the case that (some) bus companies don't take road layout changes into account and just send buses through a new road layout regardless, and without any notice/instructions for drivers?

 

[Titfield]

Is this a question of bus driver competency and/or bus driver training?

Is it the case that (some) bus companies don't take road layout changes into account and just send buses through a new road layout regardless, and without any notice/instructions for drivers?

When I was a bus company Transport Manager we had good communications with the various Highways Departments and TfL who usually consulted with operators about proposed changes. We would ascertain the effect and issue notices to all drivers advising them of any actions required. Frequently I would take a vehicle and an ops manager or supervisor and go through the new layout a few times to get an awareness of any likely issues to put in the notice.

 

[birchesgreen]

I'm not sure its anything to do with the drivers competence, i find the remodelled junction tight enough in my Sandero, an actual bus must be a real challenge

 

[172007]

We had a traffic roundabout installed over ten years ago in a dual carriage way road. The design brief as stated by councellors at the time was that 2 double decker buses can negociate it parallel. Turns out its impossible as not enough room, even a large SUV next to a bus has the possibility of collision.

Must be plenty of pinch points where scrapes occurr.

 

[stevieinselby]

Why do you think they make turns sharper? Who does it benefit. I don’t drive.

Making the turns sharper improves safety for pedestrians and other people on the pavement, by:

• Forcing drivers to slow right down to make the turn instead of swinging round at high speed
• Narrowing the distance that pedestrians have to cross, especially helpful for people who move slower
• Pedestrians waiting to cross are in a position of better visibility - they can see traffic coming more easily, and approaching drivers can see them more easily.

The downside is that making the turn tight enough that car drivers have to slow down for it means it's going to be very tight for a bus or other large vehicle. It sounds like this turn wasn't one that needed to be made by buses until they were diverted that way due to roadworks elsewhere, so that wouldn't have been factored into a risk assessment of the design, but maybe should have been factored into the bus company's diversionary plans.

 

[PeterC]

There was a case some years ago of a Lomdon Borough putting in a speed bump adjacent to a low bridge. This raised the rear wheels just enough for an otherwise compliant bus to jam.

 

[Andyh82]

Whitehall Road heading into Leeds used to have over a dozen buses an hour but now has none* as the council have installed a cycle lane and as a result the road is too narrow to let buses pass each other at speed. First and Arriva buses now use an alternative longer route

* except for the Park & Ride PR1 which only runs in one direction and therefore doesn’t need to pass another bus

 

[43055]

In Burton on Trent the council has installed a cycle lane between January and May and as a result the two traffic lanes are now very narrow and two large vehicles can sometimes not pass each other leading up to the traffic lights by the town hall. The right hand turn is also now very tight were you almost have to drive into the traffic lights to keep the back wheel off the kerb and railings at the back.

 

[MotCO]

Is this a question of bus driver competency and/or bus driver training?

Is it the case that (some) bus companies don't take road layout changes into account and just send buses through a new road layout regardless, and without any notice/instructions for drivers?

Sometimes there are not that many alternative routes available. Especially if roads run parallel to rivers, railway tracks etc.