Buses not stopping when requested

[Dentonian]

I'm not certain that drivers that miss stops always (or even usually) do so deliberately. Concerned about the cyclist whose path is closer to a sound wave rather than a straight line, whether the pedestrians hanging about near a crossing actually want to cross, the thump-thump-thump of a bottle coming down the stairs, being late because the level crossing was down because two trains had passed, the intermittent fault light that comes on for a second or two at a time, the noisy group of school kids on the upper deck who are up to something (I could go on). So very occasionally they might forget to stop - particularly if there is no physical stop pole or are new to the route. If they are not slowing down, 'This stop please' - other contributors have indicated why the driver might not have heard a ring. Drivers are human, they occasionally get things wrong, its no big thing - and, in my experience, are usually apologetic.

The dictionary definition of a mantra is a statement or slogan, frequently repeated. There is no implication that the slogan is true, or is believed to be true! (Evidence - every general election that I can remember.)

The mantra comment was aimed at the "bad management and greedy shareholders", but maybe I was giving drivers too much benefit of the doubt. This is probably because its a very rare problem in my experience, despite all the other measurements of deterioration in recent years.

 

[Typhoon]

The mantra comment was aimed at the "bad management and greedy shareholders", but maybe I was giving drivers too much benefit of the doubt. This is probably because its a very rare problem in my experience, despite all the other measurements of deterioration in recent years.

I certainly agree with the section I have highlighted! (And, indeed, the point made after it.)

 

[PermitToTravel]

Doesn't allow the "reminder" case I noted, though, meaning more missed stops. If you wanted to stop the "kids messing with it" scenario I suppose you could put in a timer allowing a ring again only after 10 seconds or so.

As far as I can tell, this is how it works on an Enviro MMC - the bells in the cab and in the saloon are independent, and the minimum interval between cab bell rings seems to be about 15 seconds. The bell icon on the dashboard flashes with every press, even ones for which no sound is played.

 

[Romilly]

My nearest bus stop is served by two routes provided by the same company. Until June, Service 1 was semi-express and didn't stop at our stop but only those either side. Likewise until June, Service 2 called at all stops. Since June, Service 1 is an all stops service. Also since June, Service 2 (except on a handful of early morning and late evening journeys) is semi-express and doesn't serve our stop. Outcome: drivers of Service 1 buses are still in pre-June mode and won't stop at our stop (whether requested from the roadside or from within the bus), but drivers of Service 2 buses are in post-June mode throughout the day (so don't stop at our stop - correctly during the day, but wrongly so on the designated early morning/late evening services). So in practice we've gone from one stopping bus and one passing bus per hour to no stopping buses and two passing buses per hour despite it being the case that we are still meant to have one stopping bus per hour. Grrr.

 

[Bryan Andrews]

The reason bus drivers pass stops when the bell has been rung is due to repetitiveness. A bus driver on a typical 12 hour shift may have the bell rung beside his or her ear up to 500 times. You become immune to it. I was driving a bus when four people stuck their hand out to hail me down. I sailed straight past because it had become so normal I didn't see them. I felt really guilty afterwards but tough luck-it had happened.

 

[Bryan Andrews]

I'm not interested in your personal details - beyond a curiosity as to why your profile seems to contradict them, maybe - but I fail to get the link between "cost cutting", which exists throughout British society and has done for many years, and bus drivers not carrying about a basic part of their duty. Especially as, 99%+ of bus drivers DO carry out this basic part of their duty, irrelevant of how bad their management is or how greedy their shareholders are. Besides, I thought the mantra of the private sector was "The customer is always right".

You have missed a bit. The customer is always right. Not so. They always think they are right and most of the time they are wrong. It`s just a companies customer services that calms them down to make them think that were right when they were not.

 

[185143]

I had a First Manchester bus about 3 weeks ago fly straight past me whilst I was on the phone. I was stood right by the bus stop pole-however wasn't facing the traffic, so never saw it until it was far too late.

Of course I couldn't complain as I made no attempt whatsoever to signal the bus, but it was the only bus route to stop at that stop... so should have been obvious I wanted the bus really.

I've been in the same situation onboard too. Pressed the bell very early (unintentionally-I wasn't familiar with the stop and we hit traffic) for one of the stops on Chadderton Broadway. Driver completely forgot and drove straight past. Unfortunately... this was a Cityzap bus! Anyone familiar with the route will know that the next stop is pretty much as far away as legally possible! That was a LONG detour...

 

[PeterC]

I had a First Manchester bus about 3 weeks ago fly straight past me whilst I was on the phone. I was stood right by the bus stop pole-however wasn't facing the traffic, so never saw it until it was far too late.

Of course I couldn't complain as I made no attempt whatsoever to signal the bus, but it was the only bus route to stop at that stop... so should have been obvious I wanted the bus really.

..

Not obvious at all, I have seen people standing at a stop chatting who totally ignore the bus when the driver stops and opens the doors. Similarly when driving a car I have encountered people who stand at the kerbside at a zebra crossing to use their phone and make no attempt to cross when I stop.

 

[matt_world2004]

I believe in london most buses have an in cab light to denote the bell has been pressed.

 

[PermitToTravel]

All buses everywhere have that.

Many operators have a policy (TfL, Lothian, Stagecoach) of stopping if anyone is at the stop, regardless of whether they signal; unless everyone at the stop signals that they definitely *don't* want to get on that bus. This should be more common IMO

 

[Bletchleyite]

All buses everywhere have that.

Many operators have a policy (TfL, Lothian, Stagecoach) of stopping if anyone is at the stop, regardless of whether they signal; unless everyone at the stop signals that they definitely *don't* want to get on that bus. This should be more common IMO

That's the German approach. Visibly stepping back into the shelter or even waving the bus through is usual practice if you don't want it (and I still do that in the UK from force of habit), though Germany doesn't use the "trunk route" approach we do, so rarely do you get a stop served by more than one or two routes.

Still need a ding to get off, though, as they only stop if someone is waiting.

 

[JN114]

Urban Wiltshire. Busiest route (by far) in town, recently equipped with new buses.

Approaching the busiest stop in town. Numerous bell-pushes as nearly everyone on the bus wanted to get off. Bus driver sailed through the stop as non-one wanted to get on, he was running 10-15 late and didn’t have a changeover that trip. Cue near-riot from all passengers on board where the bus didn’t stop until the next stop - due to roadworks diversion is nearly 2 route km and 15 mins walk away. I got off the bus in silence; but at least two female passengers behind me were having a full round of verbal with the driver. As much as it pains me, I had no sympathy for him.

 

[185143]

Urban Wiltshire. Busiest route (by far) in town, recently equipped with new buses.

Approaching the busiest stop in town. Numerous bell-pushes as nearly everyone on the bus wanted to get off. Bus driver sailed through the stop as non-one wanted to get on, he was running 10-15 late and didn’t have a changeover that trip. Cue near-riot from all passengers on board where the bus didn’t stop until the next stop - due to roadworks diversion is nearly 2 route km and 15 mins walk away. I got off the bus in silence; but at least two female passengers behind me were having a full round of verbal with the driver. As much as it pains me, I had no sympathy for him.

Rightly so! I wouldn't have got off quietly either... driving past a stop because the bus is late and giving most of the bus a 15 minute walk back isn't acceptable. In fact-given the distance, I think had the bus stopped at lights or whatever I'd have been inclined to use the emergency door release and get off (if it were safe to do so obviously).

I was on a Stagecoach Manchester Trident going to school once and none of the bells upstairs were working. The driver didn't know I wanted off and drove past my stop! It wasn't too far to the next one though-he was really apologetic when I told him.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rightly so! I wouldn't have got off quietly either...

I don't know. A good bit of British passive-aggressiveness such as a failure to say "thankyou" (or even saying a muted and clearly dissatisfied "ta"[1]) feels good at times.

[1] A bit like leaving no tip might just mean you don't tip, as some people just never do e.g. my parents, but leaving 1p is a huge statement.

 

[185143]

I don't know. A good bit of British passive-aggressiveness such as a failure to say "thankyou" (or even saying a muted and clearly dissatisfied "ta"[1]) feels good at times.

[1] A bit like leaving no tip might just mean you don't tip, as some people just never do e.g. my parents, but leaving 1p is a huge statement.

Hahaha, well, there is that I suppose!

I have got off the bus before when I've had particularly difficult drivers using tickets that the driver hasn't heard of-and having shown clear proof that the ticket IS valid and said 'Thank You' through very gritted teeth!

 

[185143]

Almost had another...

Caught a bus just as the driver had shut the door-made a comment about me being on the last minute, which was fair enough really!

Came to get off, pressed the bell in good time and stood up when the bus was pretty much at the stop. (Many companies (in particular independants) tell you to stay seated until the bus stops!)

Driver decides to then, in quite an obnoxious manner, give me a lecture about getting on/off in good time and that they can refuse to stop if they don't get enough notice and so on...

I responded by telling him not to delay his bus any further and got off!

Was rather odd... ok, fair point paasing comment for when I got on, but I didn't make him reopen the door!

 

[Dentonian]

Rightly so! I wouldn't have got off quietly either... driving past a stop because the bus is late and giving most of the bus a 15 minute walk back isn't acceptable. In fact-given the distance, I think had the bus stopped at lights or whatever I'd have been inclined to use the emergency door release and get off (if it were safe to do so obviously).

It would never be safe - or legal - for a passenger to use the emergency door release, unless in a genuine emergency (ie. bus was on fire). At the very least the bus would be disabled leading to congestion and conflict. In saying this, the most common scenario I have seen this happening is nothing to do with drivers missing stops, its where buses have been waiting to turn right at very busy cross roads, and passenger(s) have just lost patience, opened the door and leapt into the path of traffic crossing the junction in the inside lane. Example being Denton, Crown Point which if you went to school on Stagecoach Manchester buses, you may just be familiar with.

 

[185143]

It would never be safe - or legal - for a passenger to use the emergency door release, unless in a genuine emergency (ie. bus was on fire). At the very least the bus would be disabled leading to congestion and conflict. In saying this, the most common scenario I have seen this happening is nothing to do with drivers missing stops, its where buses have been waiting to turn right at very busy cross roads, and passenger(s) have just lost patience, opened the door and leapt into the path of traffic crossing the junction in the inside lane. Example being Denton, Crown Point which if you went to school on Stagecoach Manchester buses, you may just be familiar with.

Yes-I can imagine it happening there. It doesn't disable the bus-I've used them twice (after being told to can I add!)

The first time I wanted off on Sir Thomas Street as my bus to the Wirral was right behind. Driver said 'I can't let you off-but I can't stop you pressing that green button up there' (or similar).

The second time was just a few days later! The driver's door release wasn't working for some reason so he asked me to do him a favour and press it (as I was getting off).

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Yes-I can imagine it happening there. It doesn't disable the bus-I've used them twice (after being told to can I add!)

The first time I wanted off on Sir Thomas Street as my bus to the Wirral was right behind. Driver said 'I can't let you off-but I can't stop you pressing that green button up there' (or similar).

The second time was just a few days later! The driver's door release wasn't working for some reason so he asked me to do him a favour and press it (as I was getting off).

It does temporarily disable the bus in that the bus will not release the brakes until doors are closed again.. and on certain makes of buses that isn't a simple act of pressing the close button... in particular MAN's you have to reset the doors.. press open and then close again to make the doors work properly after an emergency door activation...

 

[185143]

It does temporarily disable the bus in that the bus will not release the brakes until doors are closed again.. and on certain makes of buses that isn't a simple act of pressing the close button... in particular MAN's you have to reset the doors.. press open and then close again to make the doors work properly after an emergency door activation...

Wasn't aware of that! I was under the impression (as the buses in both cases drove on pretty much immediately-certainly the first one) that it didn't have any effect on the bus.

 

[185143]

I've just put my arm out to catch a bus, then stepped back into the shelter to pick up my bag. In doing so, the bus drove straight past... I'll assume the driver took my retraction from the pavement edge as 'actually, I don't want that bus'?

 

[Dai Corner]

Where there are several routes serving one stop I make an exaggerated head-shaking movement when a bus I don't want approaches (and there is nobody else waiting). This is normally acknowledged by the driver and, I would think, appreciated.

 

[185143]

Where there are several routes serving one stop I make an exaggerated head-shaking movement when a bus I don't want approaches (and there is nobody else waiting). This is normally acknowledged by the driver and, I would think, appreciated.

I would say (I'm not a bus driver mind), but unless there is a clear signal that the passenger doesn't want your bus, then stop.

Absolutely only make a 'no thanks' signal if you're the only one at the stop though! I was waiting for the bus when I was about 12. There was another family there and the young kids kept putting their arms out. The mother pulled them back and waved the bus on-completely unaware that I specifically needed that bus!

I caught up with the bus by getting the quicker one and bailing out. The driver seemed surprised and apologized, believing me to be with the other family...

 

[Lezlee]

My local bus company generally treats all bus stops as request stops, so the bus needs to be hailed, with the exception of the busiest stops.

As for the bus driver missing stops, it may be a case that they simply forgot the bell was rung or that they didn't hear the bell through the rattles and bumps in the road. Most buses have an indicator of some description to show a stop has been requested, but with the driver having to concentrate on getting everyone safely to their destination, they don't always have the opportunity to check for a light, which isn't always easy to spot in any case.

I strongly doubt that the majority of drivers skip stops deliberately or for menace. From what i've seen, most drivers are apologetic when they miss a stop and usually stop in a safe location straight away when they realise or are told.

 

[Dentonian]

I've just put my arm out to catch a bus, then stepped back into the shelter to pick up my bag. In doing so, the bus drove straight past... I'll assume the driver took my retraction from the pavement edge as 'actually, I don't want that bus'?

You are very unlucky! I don't think it has ever happened to me (unless the bus is full) in nearly 45 years of regular bus use. I have seen it happen occasionally - very occasionally - with the last time probably being a decade ago. Indeed, I have witnessed the reverse this very afternoon. The Stagecoach bus I was on slowed down and virtually came to a stop for two teenagers at a regularly used stop who had not signalled. Eventually, the driver didn't actually stop, and the reaction from the teenagers was, well... non-existant. Clearly, they were not using the stop and shelter for the reason it was provided for. Note, no other route is served from this stop.
I might have mentioned further up the thread that I have seen complaints figures for different operators in GM, and whilst overall First attract about twice as many complaints (roughly equal sized ops nowadays) as Stagecoach, the category for "failing to stop" barely registers at all with Stagecoach, but apart from "Bus not turning up" is about the biggest cause for complaint with First.

 

[185143]

You are very unlucky! I don't think it has ever happened to me (unless the bus is full) in nearly 45 years of regular bus use. I have seen it happen occasionally - very occasionally - with the last time probably being a decade ago. Indeed, I have witnessed the reverse this very afternoon. The Stagecoach bus I was on slowed down and virtually came to a stop for two teenagers at a regularly used stop who had not signalled. Eventually, the driver didn't actually stop, and the reaction from the teenagers was, well... non-existant. Clearly, they were not using the stop and shelter for the reason it was provided for. Note, no other route is served from this stop.
I might have mentioned further up the thread that I have seen complaints figures for different operators in GM, and whilst overall First attract about twice as many complaints (roughly equal sized ops nowadays) as Stagecoach, the category for "failing to stop" barely registers at all with Stagecoach, but apart from "Bus not turning up" is about the biggest cause for complaint with First.

I have a list of times First haven't turned up on me this year. Given that I've used the service so little-the length of it is shocking!

I came out of 'Spoons in Shaw at 20:25 intending to catch either the 20:29 59 or 20:31 181 to Manchester.

Neither turned up!

And don't get me started on the 582 from Bolton to Leigh...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would never be safe - or legal - for a passenger to use the emergency door release

I don't know about *legality* though it is certainly going to be in breach of the bus company's conditions of carriage and cause some disruption unless you have your finger poised on "close" as you get off (watch how just about every bus driver leaves the vehicle at the layover point). But it is no more *unsafe* than opening a car door at the same point as a passenger. Roads aren't railways.

 

[pdsalford]

However, for reasons I can only guess at, its a MUCH bigger problem with First Manchester than with Stagecoach Manchester, or certainly has been historically. And that's taking into account that per passenger carried, First have always been a bigger cause of complaint generally.

Nothing has changed. First Manc drivers are probably worse than ever.

 

[Dentonian]

I have a list of times First haven't turned up on me this year. Given that I've used the service so little-the length of it is shocking!

I came out of 'Spoons in Shaw at 20:25 intending to catch either the 20:29 59 or 20:31 181 to Manchester.

Neither turned up!

And don't get me started on the 582 from Bolton to Leigh...

The 2031 is actually a 182 (but I'm being pedantic). More to the point, I think this is also relevant, as passengers seem more reluctant to complain about service failures than about other things like failing to stop, not issuing tickets (ie. potential theft), dangerous driving, impoliteness etc. Bearing in mind, the evening 181/2 is subsidised, these should really be complained about to TFGM. 59 (for now) and 582 are fully commercial, so if they are regular failures, it may need to be flagged up with VOSA or the Bus Appeals Board.

 

[185143]

The 2031 is actually a 182 (but I'm being pedantic). More to the point, I think this is also relevant, as passengers seem more reluctant to complain about service failures than about other things like failing to stop, not issuing tickets (ie. potential theft), dangerous driving, impoliteness etc. Bearing in mind, the evening 181/2 is subsidised, these should really be complained about to TFGM. 59 (for now) and 582 are fully commercial, so if they are regular failures, it may need to be flagged up with VOSA or the Bus Appeals Board.

The 582...

I've used it 6 times this year so far.

3 in the evening when it is half hourly.
1 on a Friday mid afternoon
1 on a Tuesday late morning
1 today.

Out of those, ONE has turned up on time! Just one!

The three evening journeys all failed to show-resulting in a half an hour wait. The Tuesday morning one didn't show, resulting in a 10 minute wait. The bus this afternoon arrived nearly 10 minutes late. The Friday afternoon one ran ok. Not good at all...

I don't use the 59 too often-but I normally find it to be one of the better services.