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Buses in the floods

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ste898

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Just saw this on the news

Horrible experience for the passengers

http://metro.co.uk/2015/12/30/12-pe...ove-through-flood-waters-in-scotland-5592638/
Police this afternoon said they had rescued all 12 passengers from a bus that had got stuck in flood water in Scotland.

The Stagecoach bus became trapped in Dailly, Ayrshire, and seven of the passengers have been taken to Girvan Hospital.

It is believed that the bus was pushed into the trees by the force of the water as it tried to make its way along the submerged road...
 
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Busaholic

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Would this be the first time in the U.K. that a rescue helicopter has winched passengers directly from a bus, or did it happen in Wales in the February coastal flooding last year?
 

Teflon Lettuce

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IMO driver who tried to get that through there should be fired for stupidity.

Dave

IMHO the more likely scenario is that the road was "passable with care" when the driver entered the floodwater... by looking at the pic you can see that it was a long stretch of road that was affected. Anyone who lives near a river in a part of the country that is subject to these flooding events know how quickly the situation can change. My guess is that the driver got to a point of no return just as the water got too deep for him to make it to safety and he had to stop because the water was too deep to continue.. the pic we are seeing is of the bus long after it had got stuck and we can assume that in the time that emergency services took to arrive the water could have risen 3 or 4 foot further.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would this be the first time in the U.K. that a rescue helicopter has winched passengers directly from a bus, or did it happen in Wales in the February coastal flooding last year?

there was a Richards Bros that got stranded on a flooded coastal road when we had the monster high tides... I can't remember if a helicopter was used to rescue the passengers though
 

Stan Drews

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The suggestion appears to be that the river "burst its banks", or a section of wall collapsed as the bus was slowly negotiating a more "normal" flooded section of the road. The force of the rushing water lifted the bus off the road and into the trees, which thankfully brought it to a halt!
 

KendalKing

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IMO driver who tried to get that through there should be fired for stupidity.

I left the bus industry three years ago, having had worked in the industry for over 23-years.

For the life of me, I can not understand the stupidity of some of the drivers!, The driver concerned should be prosecuted for endangering lives, and have they PCV entitlement revoke.

I can't help notice that some people are trying to defend the driver, if it been a First bus, and not a Stagecoach bus, would they still be trying to defend the driver.
 

Darandio

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You were there were you? I suspect not:roll:

Obviously a traumatic experience for all concerned.

I agree, use of a word such as 'firing' is a bit extreme when you don't know the details.

Although the irony meter has just exploded following your reply.
 

Robertj21a

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I left the bus industry three years ago, having had worked in the industry for over 23-years.

For the life of me, I can not understand the stupidity of some of the drivers!, The driver concerned should be prosecuted for endangering lives, and have they PCV entitlement revoke.

I can't help notice that some people are trying to defend the driver, if it been a First bus, and not a Stagecoach bus, would they still be trying to defend the driver.

Well I would certainly defend any driver if he entered an area with only minimal flooding and was then 'washed away' when, as reported, a retaining wall collapsed. Not everyone can be a clairvoyant !
 

d1672

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Hi,

The driver is NOT to blame for this incident. A wall which was holding the river on its course suddenly, without warning collapsed and washed the bus away.

It is sad to see people pointing the finger and making stupid, ill informed statements about the driver before finding out the facts.

Thomas
 

Westnat

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I left the bus industry three years ago, having had worked in the industry for over 23-years.

For the life of me, I can not understand the stupidity of some of the drivers!, The driver concerned should be prosecuted for endangering lives, and have they PCV entitlement revoke.

I can't help notice that some people are trying to defend the driver, if it been a First bus, and not a Stagecoach bus, would they still be trying to defend the driver.

They are defending him because it appears it wasn't his fault. Maybe the driver concerned should be prosecuting you for libel?
 

Antman

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I agree, use of a word such as 'firing' is a bit extreme when you don't know the details.

Although the irony meter has just exploded following your reply.

I'm probably going to wish I hadn't asked, but what is an irony meter and what has caused it to explode?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I left the bus industry three years ago, having had worked in the industry for over 23-years.

For the life of me, I can not understand the stupidity of some of the drivers!, The driver concerned should be prosecuted for endangering lives, and have they PCV entitlement revoke.

I can't help notice that some people are trying to defend the driver, if it been a First bus, and not a Stagecoach bus, would they still be trying to defend the driver.

Well unless you were there at the time I'm baffled as to how you can make a judgment like that? I'm neither defending nor blaming the driver, I wasn't there so I don't know.
 

Busaholic

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The bus was reportedly on diversion, so the driver may have been unfamiliar with the topography too.
 

mlambeuk

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Another incident today, but in Yorkshire
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/14181922.30_children_rescued_from_bus_stuck_in_floodwater___UPDATED/

NEARLY 30 schoolchildren had to be rescued by 999 crews after a schoolbus became stuck in floodwater.

The bus was travelling between Newton-on-Ouse and Tollerton, outside York, on Tuesday morning when it became stuck due to the flooded New Parks Beck.

North Yorkshire County Council has confirmed the driver drove into a road that had been closed due to flooding since December 26.

Stephensons of Easingwold, which owns the bus, has apologised to the children and their families....
 
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jon0844

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My local bus goes through a section of road (a dip that crosses the former Alban Way rail line) that often floods. The council has failed to clear it in years and their most recent attempt failed abysmally too.

I have no idea what the bus company policy is because some drivers will divert, and the bus company doesn't say anything on social media or its website (so anyone nearby will have to wait a bit to realise there's no bus).

Other drivers seem to just go for it. It's a circular route, so they drive it many times on their shift.

Some go quite quick too, and the last bus I was on was near flooded inside because so much water came in.

I don't think the water is deep enough to do any engine damage, but it is odd to see some drivers just having a 'go for it' mentality, when getting stuck would be extremely awkward for all concerned. Not just getting passengers off, but the negative publicity and explaining back at the depot.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I'm surprised too at the devil-may-care attitude by some bus drivers. There's a notorious dip near my parents' place that regularly floods in heavy rain due to poor quality drainage, and quite a few of the old hands at Yorkshire Tiger (including one character who still wears a Yorkshire Traction Hi-viz vest!) who seem to think (possibly correctly, I'm no expert!) that the best policy is to race through as fast as possible! Quite exciting in a way but a few times this winter it's been rather a white-knucle ride! I'm always slightly wary since my brother drowned his new VW Bora in a flood a few years ago, though.
 

OwlMan

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And one stuck again
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-35281433
Pupils rescued from bus trapped in Farnham floodwater


Six schoolchildren and their driver have been led to safety after the bus they were in became stuck in floodwater in Essex. They were trapped when the bus stopped in water in Mill Hill in Farnham near Bishops Stortford at about 09:10 GMT.
The driver "thought he had stopped in a large puddle" to let a lorry go the other way but it was "deeper than expected", the fire service said.
A spokesman said the children were "all very brave".
Essex Fire and Rescue said the vehicle had become stuck in water from a nearby stream which had overflowed following heavy rainfall overnight.
Firefighter Dave Morland said: "It seems as [the driver] waited, water entered the exhaust, causing the bus problems and the engine cut out leaving the driver and his passengers stranded.
"We carried the children to the water bank, they were all very brave and we were pleased to get them safely out of their predicament quickly and safely.
"A local company took them into their office where they warmed up."
Robert Sinnott, from ACME transport services, which operates the bus, said it was recovering the vehicle and all the children were "fine and had got to school".
"We notified the school that they would be late," he added.
 

KendalKing

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Taken from the BBC website:-

A bus driver who had to be rescued along with 12 passengers after his vehicle became stranded in flood water has been convicted of careless driving.

Tudor Davies believed he could make it through the flood water on the B741, near Dailly, South Ayrshire, during Storm Frank on 30 December.

The Stagecoach 58 bus stalled and all on board were rescued by helicopter.
Davies, 49, was fined £2,000 following a trial at Ayr Sheriff Court and had nine points added to his licence.

The sheriff told Davies, from Patna, East Ayrshire, he had made a significant error of judgement.

The trial had heard how Davies and 10 adults and two children - a boy aged seven and a five-year-old girl - were airlifted from the bus after it became engulfed in water.
At the time of the incident, one of the rescued passengers, Phyllis Young, told BBC Scotland that it had been a terrifying ordeal.

She said: "The water was in the bus. It was coming up and up.
"It got to the window, there was big waves. You could see the current. It was very, very scary."

The passengers were forced to move to the rear of the bus as the front section of the bus was covered with water.

The driver is NOT to blame for this incident.

It would appear that the Sheriff of Ayrshire, disagrees with you!
 
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Busaholic

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Taken from the BBC website:-

A bus driver who had to be rescued along with 12 passengers after his vehicle became stranded in flood water has been convicted of careless driving.

Tudor Davies believed he could make it through the flood water on the B741, near Dailly, South Ayrshire, during Storm Frank on 30 December.

The Stagecoach 58 bus stalled and all on board were rescued by helicopter.
Davies, 49, was fined £2,000 following a trial at Ayr Sheriff Court and had nine points added to his licence.

The sheriff told Davies, from Patna, East Ayrshire, he had made a significant error of judgement.

The trial had heard how Davies and 10 adults and two children - a boy aged seven and a five-year-old girl - were airlifted from the bus after it became engulfed in water.
At the time of the incident, one of the rescued passengers, Phyllis Young, told BBC Scotland that it had been a terrifying ordeal.

She said: "The water was in the bus. It was coming up and up.
"It got to the window, there was big waves. You could see the current. It was very, very scary."

The passengers were forced to move to the rear of the bus as the front section of the bus was covered with water.



It would appear that the Sheriff of Ayrshire, disagrees with you!

Does anyone know if he is still driving buses?
 

mbonwick

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No, he was fairly quickly sacked by Stagecoach I've been told.

I still wonder whether charges would have been brought if the wall hadn't given way and swamped the bus. Yes it was foolish to drive into the initial flood, but he couldn't possibly have known how serious things would get?
 

AB93

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I still wonder whether charges would have been brought if the wall hadn't given way and swamped the bus. Yes it was foolish to drive into the initial flood, but he couldn't possibly have known how serious things would get?

I think you've answered your own question there - if he was unable to determine how serious things could get, then it's very very very silly to enter the situation in the first place!

Hence he's been done, the whole wall-falling-down thing is irrelevant, he shouldn't have gone in in the first place. Exactly because something like the wall collapsing might have happened - you can never be sure how quickly the situation may change.

If he had got the bus through in one piece then there probably wouldn't have been any police interest so they probably wouldn't have charged him.

An article I read said he's now working as a delivery driver.
 

mbonwick

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I haven't answered my own question at all. How many hundreds of drivers got themselves caught in floodwater during the winter storms? There were several instances of buses getting stuck as well, I'm not aware of all the drivers being charged.

So what makes this case special other than events which unfolded after the bus became stranded which the driver cannot be responsible for?
 

AB93

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I haven't answered my own question at all. How many hundreds of drivers got themselves caught in floodwater during the winter storms? There were several instances of buses getting stuck as well, I'm not aware of all the drivers being charged.

So what makes this case special other than events which unfolded after the bus became stranded which the driver cannot be responsible for?

You're presupposing the incident happened because of the wall collapsing, and that therefore the passengers being trapped in floodwater wasn't the drivers fault - this is the opposite of the view taken by the court.

The driver went into a risky situation, not knowing what could happen. Then something did happen, and he got his passengers trapped. The root cause of the incident is because he went into a risky situation, not considering what could happen. That's why he was found guilty.

That's why I said you'd answered you're own question. If you take a risk while driving, and it goes wrong - if you're affecting other people you'll probably get done for it.

If nothing happens, you'll probably get away with it, or if you just write your own car off through your own stupidity, the police won't be interested.

Some of the quotes from the court case are interesting:

"Depute Fiscal Scott Toal questioned Davies on his claims that the wall collapsed as he entered the water, causing the water to “surge” into the bus.
The prosecutor said: “At the very second you started moving, the water started seeping through?” Davies replied: “Yes.”
Mr Toal asked: “Is that the truth?”
Again, Davies replied: “Yes.”


"Sheriff Mhairi Mactaggart was forced to interject as he was cross-examined by Mr Toal, using photographs from passengers to show how much of the water could be seen from the front of the bus.
Davies admitted that, at the point the photograph had been taken, he could still have reversed the bus out of the water and prevented the flood."
 

DaveHarries

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Not far from my house is a road in the Henbury area of Bristol which, due to a dip, can be flooded after prolonged heavy rain by a stream which flows either side of it (the stream does not normally flow across the road but it will do if there is enough heavy rain) and it can get seriously deep: I have seen the odd car in there.

There are signs at both ends of the dip saying "IF ROAD FLOODED USE DIVERSION" and, from what I have seen there, even the buses use the diversion - which is a road over a small bridge next to the river crossing - if the dip floods deep enough. FirstGroup do, however, divert services 1, 3 & 4 so that they don't go near the flooded dip even though they use double deckers on those routes.

Dave
 
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