Buses and the coronavirus

[Bikeman78]

Yes I agree, and what follows may be viewed as Controversial but...

I hope some respected figures in the public transport industry stand up and say this - yes maybe it is a case of biting the hand that feeds you but I feel unless this happens we might as well plan now to close the doors on a sizeable proportion of our public transport.

I believe that without removal of social distancing free home-to-school transport won't be able to function and local authorities may as well inform parents that they won't be providing it and that parents are responsible for themselves getting their children to-and-from school.

Service buses will require enormous subsidy if they are to continue running. Cardiff bus has made big losses the past two years. Until March several routes run eight times an hour, mainly single deckers. At weekends and rush hours they were often full and standing with something like 50 people on board.

 

[londonbridge]

I was going to post this in the TFL bankrupt thread but I note it’s been closed so this one seems the next appropriate thread. Friday, get a 157 home from work, it was middle door boarding and no touch in. Saturday, get a 157 and it’s front door boarding plus touch in. A quick check of the TFL website showed it as being on the list of routes which were now charging fares again as of Saturday 13th. Fair enough. Yesterday, when the bus came along it was back on middle door and no touch! Either it’s board at the front and pay or it’s not, they can’t have it both ways with a mix of different buses on the same route.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are there perhaps delays fitting the new fully enclosed screens? Or is one driver perhaps rebelling?

 

[MrTurbostar170]

According to the first bus tracker many of my local buses are still fairly empty, which I find surprising!

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to the first bus tracker many of my local buses are still fairly empty, which I find surprising!

Most car owners use them by preference, if the Government is telling people to use them are you surprised?

 

[hassaanhc]

I was going to post this in the TFL bankrupt thread but I note it’s been closed so this one seems the next appropriate thread. Friday, get a 157 home from work, it was middle door boarding and no touch in. Saturday, get a 157 and it’s front door boarding plus touch in. A quick check of the TFL website showed it as being on the list of routes which were now charging fares again as of Saturday 13th. Fair enough. Yesterday, when the bus came along it was back on middle door and no touch! Either it’s board at the front and pay or it’s not, they can’t have it both ways with a mix of different buses on the same route.....

On Sundays the 157 uses buses from Thornton Heath garage, which don't appear to be front board yet. For the rest of the week, the buses are from Norwood garage, and they are front board.

 

[Andyh82]

According to the first bus tracker many of my local buses are still fairly empty, which I find surprising!

No students travelling
Hardly any office workers travelling - working from home
No furloughed staff travelling
Car users who use the bus by choice not because they have to not travelling
No leisure travellers

I don't find it surprising

 

[londonbridge]

On Sundays the 157 uses buses from Thornton Heath garage, which don't appear to be front board yet. For the rest of the week, the buses are from Norwood garage, and they are front board.

Talk about confusing! Surely they shouldn't specifty a particular route as 'fares in operation' until all buses that service that route have been converted.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

According to the first bus tracker many of my local buses are still fairly empty, which I find surprising!

I too followed my local First route this afternoon (Stoke-on-Trent). One bus spent the entire afternoon 'full' so a fault there somewhere, not exactly useful for the intending traveller. One other departure from the city centre was 'full', the others predominantly empty - carrying minimal numbers of passengers.

As others have said, what would one expect when passengers have been threatened for 12 weeks with 'instant transportation to a gulag' if you dared to try and travel, add to that a population s**t scared of going anywhere near other people, plus a city centre consisting mostly of metal barricades to contain the expected queues of excited shoppers.

Personally, no thanks. I've managed for 12 weeks without a single bus (or train) journey. I will return when I am genuinely welcome and that means no masks and no taped off seats. Fortunately I used up my last m-ticket on the Friday before lockdown.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Post quoted from here, @GaryMcEwan

That's one way to speed up the service cuts they've been longing to do for a long time...

Completely agree, with no return to normal passenger numbers for the foreseeable future, I can only assume operators will start to push ahead with the unpopular service cuts they've been wanting to do for ages.

Definitely going to be a long-lasting impact on the industry.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Post quoted from here, @GaryMcEwan
Completely agree, with no return to normal passenger numbers for the foreseeable future, I can only assume operators will start to push ahead with the unpopular service cuts they've been wanting to do for ages.

Definitely going to be a long-lasting impact on the industry.

It definitely give them the opportunity to get rid of the X1 once and for all. I can see a few of the routes that serve the east end Glasgow which is hardly served at the best of times going completely.

 

[PaulMc7]

It definitely give them the opportunity to get rid of the X1 once and for all. I can see a few of the routes that serve the east end Glasgow which is hardly served at the best of times going completely.

I think the X1 is under threat but they'll provide the Hamilton part of the route with something. Don't know about the east end tbh because even the smaller services like the 32 and 43 can be pretty busy at times. I think it's just a wait and see kind of thing

 

[anthony263]

Sooner restrictions are lifted the better many passengers fed up now about reductions in capacity and I know us drivers are fed up too arguing with passengers about them trying to pay by cash because they are trying to get a free ride

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Sooner restrictions are lifted the better many passengers fed up now about reductions in capacity and I know us drivers are fed up too arguing with passengers about them trying to pay by cash because they are trying to get a free ride

There's been the odd occasion where contactless wouldn't work on Stagecoach's ERG machines and the drivers have just let me on.

Stagecoach don't seem to actually mind taking cash up here.

 

[Huntergreed]

There's been the odd occasion where contactless wouldn't work on Stagecoach's ERG machines and the drivers have just let me on.

Stagecoach don't seem to actually mind taking cash up here.

We have a very strict “exact fare only” policy for the time being in my region, yet there’s nowhere the fares are advertised so it’s impossible to know what the “exact fare” will be unless you’ve used the service before.

They’re making it tough to generate revenue by doing this, and I know some operators who operate like this on a permanent basis. It seems almost like they’re not interested in getting new passengers just to make their drivers lives slightly easier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We have a very strict “exact fare only” policy for the time being in my region, yet there’s nowhere the fares are advertised so it’s impossible to know what the “exact fare” will be unless you’ve used the service before.

They’re making it tough to generate revenue by doing this, and I know some operators who operate like this on a permanent basis. It seems almost like they’re not interested in getting new passengers just to make their drivers lives slightly easier.

Substantially safer, you mean, because they usually have no access to the secure farebox?

Do they take contactless? If so that's enough for me. Near enough every car owner will have a credit or debit card of some kind, and your potential new customer base on a bus comes almost entirely from car owners, you mostly (other than things like rural day trips) are not going to be able to generate demand on your own, it's all about poaching that demand from less desirable options like the car.

That said, I've long agreed that non-advertised, complex fares (whether exact fare or not) are silly. In most towns/cities, two or at most three levels of single fare, a day ticket and a weekly are all you need, and that should be plastered all over the stop and on the first window of the bus.

 

[scotrail158713]

We have a very strict “exact fare only” policy for the time being in my region, yet there’s nowhere the fares are advertised so it’s impossible to know what the “exact fare” will be unless you’ve used the service before.

They’re making it tough to generate revenue by doing this, and I know some operators who operate like this on a permanent basis. It seems almost like they’re not interested in getting new passengers just to make their drivers lives slightly easier.

First Bus don’t operate your local buses do they? I know they’re really bad for that - it shouldn’t be hard to publish, but clearly it seems to be. Contactless makes it slightly easier, but it’s still preferable to know beforehand how much it will cost.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

First Bus don’t operate your local buses do they? I know they’re really bad for that - it shouldn’t be hard to publish, but clearly it seems to be. Contactless makes it slightly easier, but it’s still preferable to know beforehand how much it will cost.

Stagecoach are also like this, fare stages change about every 4 stops.

 

[scotrail158713]

Stagecoach are also like this, fare stages change about every 4 stops.

At least Stagecoach make it easy to find prices though. First have nothing - and an email to their customer services a couple of months back came back with, pretty much, “Find out on the bus, we’re not telling you”.
(I feel we’re maybe drifting a bit OT though )

 

[route101]

I think the X1 is under threat but they'll provide the Hamilton part of the route with something. Don't know about the east end tbh because even the smaller services like the 32 and 43 can be pretty busy at times. I think it's just a wait and see kind of thing

My local route the 31 , id be suprised if it came back to my bit. It had 2 weeks nearly just before the lockdown where it was diverted , so its hardly ran up my bit.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I think the X1 is under threat but they'll provide the Hamilton part of the route with something. Don't know about the east end tbh because even the smaller services like the 32 and 43 can be pretty busy at times. I think it's just a wait and see kind of thing

The 46 is usually pretty dead between Shettleston and Easterhouse, but if that was to go then Cranhill would lose it's remaining bus service as nothing else goes into there.

Another thing that might happen is that they cut the services back and then have the begging bowl out for SPT to subsidize part of the route.

 

[PaulMc7]

The 46 is usually pretty dead between Shettleston and Easterhouse, but if that was to go then Cranhill would lose it's remaining bus service as nothing else goes into there.

Another thing that might happen is that they cut the services back and then have the begging bowl out for SPT to subsidize part of the route.

Yeah I expect most companies to try and get SPT to subsidise services at some point. Wouldn't surprise me if the 64 was one of them given that the evening and Sunday journeys are subsidised already

 

[bearhugger]

Currently on a Stagecoach operated bus and noticed the capacity sticker on the driver cab door says 11 Advisory Capacity No Standing.
There's a few more than 11 passengers on too.

 

[route101]

Yeah I expect most companies to try and get SPT to subsidise services at some point. Wouldn't surprise me if the 64 was one of them given that the evening and Sunday journeys are subsidised already

I seen Shuttle Buses on the M2.

 

[squizzler]

Today I rode a LibrtyBus in Jersey, Chanel Islands into town and back. With only single digit number of cases at large on the island, most passengers were foregoing the recommended face coverings. I was less comfortable with most of the windows being shut on the return journey, which is contrary to the operator's policy.

I live at the rural end of what is a typical provincial bus network that radiates from town into country. The impression was that there were the normal number (maybe actually more, due to school situation) of people boarding at the country end but that the town end where most passengers would be collected was quieter. Busses are capped here at 50% occupancy, and was close to that limit at the start of the return trip. Both my trips were off peak, mid-morning inwards, lunchtime homebound.

Based on my experience, I feel that reports of the death of the UK's public transport system have been greatly exaggerated. I suspect that as anxiety deceases and social and economic activity returns, so will the travel, whether operators like it on not. We are perhaps a month of two ahead of the mainland. It is worth noting that, whilst on an island that effectively contained its outbreak, the official advice is still to avoid busses where alternatives are available, and experience suggests them now being used quite normally.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Today I rode a LibrtyBus in Jersey, Chanel Islands into town and back. With only single digit number of cases at large on the island, most passengers were foregoing the recommended face coverings. I was less comfortable with most of the windows being shut on the return journey, which is contrary to the operator's policy.

I live at the rural end of what is a typical provincial bus network that radiates from town into country. The impression was that there were the normal number (maybe actually more, due to school situation) of people boarding at the country end but that the town end where most passengers would be collected was quieter. Busses are capped here at 50% occupancy, and was close to that limit at the start of the return trip. Both my trips were off peak, mid-morning inwards, lunchtime homebound.

Based on my experience, I feel that reports of the death of the UK's public transport system have been greatly exaggerated. I suspect that as anxiety deceases and social and economic activity returns, so will the travel, whether operators like it on not. We are perhaps a month of two ahead of the mainland. It is worth noting that, whilst on an island that effectively contained its outbreak, the official advice is still to avoid busses where alternatives are available, and experience suggests them now being used quite normally.

The problem is, some bus companies have strictly limited capacity without increasing frequency. Continuing their long act of suicide by insisting they will simply leave people at the roadside if the bus is full: Double decker 19 capacity, single decker 11 capacity. It doesn't take much of an uptake to mop up that capacity. A single bus missing on a route, with each half full means the next bus along will be full. To quote the First Bus advice:

If your bus is full, you'll need to wait for the next service

Tough s**t basically. The actions of a company expecting an endless line of government support. A shock awaits when they realise all those people quoted as 'searching for cheap cars' are, in fact, bus passengers deserting the industry.

 

[Dai Corner]

Nigel Winter of Stagecoach South Wales and Scott Pearson of Newport Transport are giving evidence to the Senedd (Welsh Parliament) Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee this afternoon. The subject is how Coronavirus has affected their businesses.

Agenda for Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee - Fifth Senedd on Thursday, 18 June 2020, 13.00 | Senedd

All published information, including reports, for Agenda for Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee - Fifth Senedd on Thursday, 18 June 2020, 13.00

business.senedd.wales

The webcast may be if interest to followers of this thread.

 

[Bikeman78]

I went for a ride on Cardiff Bus today. First public transport for three months. I was pleasantly surprised to see 14 people on the way out and 15 on the return. Only two people with face masks on each bus. There were no seats taped off, apart from the two single seats right behind the driver. There were a few laminated A4 signs regarding keeping two metres apart. It all seemed pretty normal, there were elderly passengers and mums with buggies. At the bus stops they have even printed off new departure sheets to reflect the amanded timetables. It's nice to see a public transport provider just getting on with the job rather than going all out to discourage people.

On Monday the shops reopen in Wales. I've no idea what the company policy is regarding max number of people per bus. At the moment they are running 50% of the normal service every day so I expect they will have to increase it soon.

 

[317 forever]

I saw a Diamond Bus Solo parked at its terminal stop near the supermarket I had used on Thursday. I didn't get on, but I did see that they had labelled alternative rows of seats out of use for social distancing. I like the right side seat above the wheel. Although this seat would still have been free to use, I can't help thinking that there will be examples of operators sealing off the preferred seats for some passengers in the name of social distancing.

 

[Bikeman78]

I saw a Diamond Bus Solo parked at its terminal stop near the supermarket I had used on Thursday. I didn't get on, but I did see that they had labelled alternative rows of seats out of use for social distancing. I like the right side seat above the wheel. Although this seat would still have been free to use, I can't help thinking that there will be examples of operators sealing off the preferred seats for some passengers in the name of social distancing.

I get the impression that Cardiff Bus is leaving it up to the passengers to decide for themselves how full the bus can get. If some one doesn't want to get on because the bus is too full, that's up to them. Anyone already on board has the option of getting off if they want to. There were a few people in consecutive rows today, no one seemed bothered by this. The real test will be next week when the shops open.