Buses and Scottish Independence

[Deerfold]

With Arriva now being German and both Stagecoach and First being nominally Scottish, if the Yes campaign win are there any implications to the vast majority of bus services in the rest of the UK being run by foreign companies?

 

[northwichcat]

both Stagecoach and First being nominally Scottish

Some Scottish companies have said if Scotland votes yes they'll cancel their Scottish registration and register as an England & Wales company, I don't know if either transport operator will go down that route.

 

[radamfi]

In many ways, the nationality of the owner is neither here nor there. Just because an operation happens to be owned by a foreign organisation, it makes little or no difference to the service on the ground. They still have to work within the regulation (or lack of) in this country. Even with aspects of operation that aren't regulated, the culture of how buses and trains are run is still typically British even with foreign ownership as British staff are employed in management. Arriva even still has its head office in Sunderland.

So called 'British owned' companies are not strictly speaking entirely UK owned even if they are based in the UK. The major groups are all listed, so the shares can be bought by any individual or organisation in the world. Obviously First and Stagecoach are listed on the London Stock Exchange.

As discussed in the past, Scotland has already had the powers to end deregulation but they haven't done so yet. Many blame the powerful influence of Souter. So if Scotland becomes independent, deregulation is even less likely to end.

Maybe Souter won't be so interested in lobbying in England if Scotland becomes independent, so that might mean an end of deregulation in England if a different government is elected in England. However, removing Scottish MPs from Westminster will make it easier for the Conservatives to win elections, so continuing deregulation and poor funding for buses.

 

[oldman]

Maybe Souter won't be so interested in lobbying in England if Scotland becomes independent, so that might mean an end of deregulation in England if a different government is elected in England. However, removing Scottish MPs from Westminster will make it easier for the Conservatives to win elections, so continuing deregulation and poor funding for buses.

Stagecoach would go on lobbying anywhere they did business if they perceived a threat to that business. Souter's nationality is irrelevant.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As discussed in the past, Scotland has already had the powers to end deregulation but they haven't done so yet. Many blame the powerful influence of Souter. So if Scotland becomes independent, deregulation is even less likely to end.

Maybe Souter won't be so interested in lobbying in England if Scotland becomes independent, so that might mean an end of deregulation in England if a different government is elected in England. However, removing Scottish MPs from Westminster will make it easier for the Conservatives to win elections, so continuing deregulation and poor funding for buses.

This does feel like you're looking at every instance at being an end to deregulation....

The truth is that Stagecoach's more profitable operations (in terms of % and in cash terms) are in England. One of which is Busways, which is why Souter has been so vocal in opposition of the Nexus proposal.

Don't kid yourself that Stagecoach will simply allow their businesses to be taken away from them

 

[radamfi]

My prediction is that buses will continue to be deregulated throughout Scotland and the UK regardless how the vote goes.

However, clearly if passenger numbers continue to decline then the operators will just give up anyway. Driverless taxis will eventually make buses unnecessary.

 

[Deerfold]

Driverless taxis will eventually make buses unnecessary.

I do hope not.

Hardy a solution to congestion - or very economic unless there's some really cheap fuel around (or fares are much higher than the bus services they replace).

 

[radamfi]

I do hope not.

Hardy a solution to congestion - or very economic unless there's some really cheap fuel around (or fares are much higher than the bus services they replace).

Taxis are expensive at the moment because you have to pay the driver.

(Although even now, some places have particularly cheap taxis, due to cut-throat competition, which buses find hard to compete against. I think Corby is such a place.)

A driverless taxi should be cheaper than driving your own car, as the fixed costs of driving are shared among all users. So not only would bus users inevitably switch, but many people may decide not to own their own car too, especially given there would no longer be a need to worry about parking. I certainly can't see a driverless taxi being more expensive than current bus fares.

On high volume corridors, driverless buses could have their place, with people connecting onto these using driverless taxis to reach the suburbs and rural areas.

 

[Robertj21a]

Taxis are expensive at the moment because you have to pay the driver.

(Although even now, some places have particularly cheap taxis, due to cut-throat competition, which buses find hard to compete against. I think Corby is such a place.)

A driverless taxi should be cheaper than driving your own car, as the fixed costs of driving are shared among all users. So not only would bus users inevitably switch, but many people may decide not to own their own car too, especially given there would no longer be a need to worry about parking. I certainly can't see a driverless taxi being more expensive than current bus fares.

On high volume corridors, driverless buses could have their place, with people connecting onto these using driverless taxis to reach the suburbs and rural areas.

Fine in theory but, despite ongoing progress, it's still decades away from being adopted generally - probably never, except for a few niche situations.

 

[Titfield]

The more pertinent point is operators who operate services that run between England and Scotland.
At the moment this is "domestic" and only a Standard National Operators Licence is required.
If Scotland becomes an independent country then it will become "International" and the Operator will have to be in possession of a Standard International Operators Licence.
The issue with that being that the TM (Transport Manager) will need an International CPC as opposed to the National CPC. Unfortunately you can no longer upgrade. You have to pass the full exam (2 papers 1 multi choice and 1 case study) from scratch.

 

[Deerfold]

Ah, well. Looks like it's all academic for a few more years.

 

[radamfi]

Greater independence for city regions in England could have transport implications.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Greater independence for city regions in England could have transport implications.

Only if the funding is there..... have you not noticed the news this week about Birmingham City Council?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fine in theory but, despite ongoing progress, it's still decades away from being adopted generally - probably never, except for a few niche situations.

Agree with you on that one. I'm still waiting for hoverboards.....

 

[radamfi]

Only if the funding is there..... have you not noticed the news this week about Birmingham City Council?

City Regions could get tax-raising powers.

 

[Deerfold]

City Regions could get tax-raising powers.

Ooh, that'd make them popular.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ooh, that'd make them popular.

Quite! The experiment in Bristol a few years back demonstrated that.