Bus ticket accounting/audit

[Busaholic]

Down here in Cornwall we're just grateful when the bus turns up, has a driver with a steering wheel he/she is able to use and gets us to where it's supposed to go. Sometimes our buses even lack roofs! Seriously, don't waste money on tracking etc down here, spend anything available on the services plus a bit for advertising those services (timetables, properly-flagged bus stops,etc). What may be a necessity in London and the big cities is very low priority down here. By the way, in Cornwall concessionary pass users are asked for their destination.

 

[radamfi]

Down here in Cornwall we're just grateful when the bus turns up, has a driver with a steering wheel he/she is able to use and gets us to where it's supposed to go. Sometimes our buses even lack roofs! Seriously, don't waste money on tracking etc down here, spend anything available on the services plus a bit for advertising those services (timetables, properly-flagged bus stops,etc). What may be a necessity in London and the big cities is very low priority down here. By the way, in Cornwall concessionary pass users are asked for their destination.

My view is that the aim should be buses of uniformly high quality in terms of vehicle standards, driver standards, roadside infrastructure and reliability regardless of where you live. Of course frequencies will be lower in rural areas, but the bus service should still be decent. If money is tight, then a few high quality services is better than a larger number of poor services. That may seem harsh but if you run poor quality services then people will stop using the services as soon as they can, leading to service withdrawal. Then you will wish you had gone done the high quality route to begin with.

I travel around the Netherlands several times a year and there are no obvious regional disparities in service quality. For example, real time info is available on every bus in the country. Very useful if you have the OV-info Android App.

 

[Qwerty133]

Arriva actually have bus tracking around here, it'd be much more use for them to have spent the money replacing the 90% of the fleet which struggle to keep to time even when they are the only veichles on the road... especially 4779

 

[Busaholic]

My view is that the aim should be buses of uniformly high quality in terms of vehicle standards, driver standards, roadside infrastructure and reliability regardless of where you live. Of course frequencies will be lower in rural areas, but the bus service should still be decent. If money is tight, then a few high quality services is better than a larger number of poor services. That may seem harsh but if you run poor quality services then people will stop using the services as soon as they can, leading to service withdrawal. Then you will wish you had gone done the high quality route to begin with.

I travel around the Netherlands several times a year and there are no obvious regional disparities in service quality. For example, real time info is available on every bus in the country. Very useful if you have the OV-info Android App.

I share Utopian aspirations and know that these are nearer to being achieved in many Northern European countries, as far down as Switzerland, but the reality is that outside London and, to a lesser extent, some other but not all major cities, the 'market' dictates use of vehicles that are on their last legs and couldn't sustain high quality services that would be very unlikely to see significant increased usage, particularly with 'feeder' and other services cut. If you are a carless pensioner in a village with a once-a-week service into your local town you're unlikely to be impressed on being told it's being withdrawn so that a more regular route can have buses with a new paint-job or wifi, not that that would ever be admitted to by the bus company.

 

[Robertj21a]

Arriva actually have bus tracking around here, it'd be much more use for them to have spent the money replacing the 90% of the fleet which struggle to keep to time even when they are the only veichles on the road... especially 4779

 

[ECML180]

My view is that the aim should be buses of uniformly high quality in terms of vehicle standards, driver standards, roadside infrastructure and reliability regardless of where you live.

That makes pretty bad business sense, and given that the bus industry is (largely) private sector is unlikely to happen.

You wouldn't put a tri-axle double decker on every route, probably wouldn't fit through little villages. Neither would you put a minibus on every route, it often wouldn't cope with passenger numbers. For that same reason a uniform service wouldn't work.

You could probably get away with charging a bit more and putting wifi/charger equipped buses on a university route with a clientèle that would appreciate it, but put that on a route through an area popular with 'older professionals' and pensioners and it would be wasted. Again you could charge more for a nicer bus (Citaro with high backed leather seats maybe?) when travelling through a 'well to do' area of a city, but a cheap and cheerful old Excel chugging along until it's next breakdown would suit an area of deprivation and low employment.

Like any product, it works best when targeted at the consumers. Although I share the view that buses can and probably will move upmarket, we as an industry need to appreciate that it's not as black and white as it used to be. There are a number of different markets and each need different products and delivery strategies.

Further reading: everything about Trent Barton

 

[Busaholic]

That makes pretty bad business sense, and given that the bus industry is (largely) private sector is unlikely to happen.

You wouldn't put a tri-axle double decker on every route, probably wouldn't fit through little villages. Neither would you put a minibus on every route, it often wouldn't cope with passenger numbers. For that same reason a uniform service wouldn't work.

You could probably get away with charging a bit more and putting wifi/charger equipped buses on a university route with a clientèle that would appreciate it, but put that on a route through an area popular with 'older professionals' and pensioners and it would be wasted. Again you could charge more for a nicer bus (Citaro with high backed leather seats maybe?) when travelling through a 'well to do' area of a city, but a cheap and cheerful old Excel chugging along until it's next breakdown would suit an area of deprivation and low employment.

Like any product, it works best when targeted at the consumers. Although I share the view that buses can and probably will move upmarket, we as an industry need to appreciate that it's not as black and white as it used to be. There are a number of different markets and each need different products and delivery strategies.

Further reading: everything about Trent Barton

Yep, what might work in Abingdon, Brighton or Harrogate is not going to go down a storm in Penzance, Plymouth or Preston.

 

[radamfi]

That makes pretty bad business sense, and given that the bus industry is (largely) private sector is unlikely to happen.

You wouldn't put a tri-axle double decker on every route, probably wouldn't fit through little villages. Neither would you put a minibus on every route, it often wouldn't cope with passenger numbers. For that same reason a uniform service wouldn't work.

You could probably get away with charging a bit more and putting wifi/charger equipped buses on a university route with a clientèle that would appreciate it, but put that on a route through an area popular with 'older professionals' and pensioners and it would be wasted. Again you could charge more for a nicer bus (Citaro with high backed leather seats maybe?) when travelling through a 'well to do' area of a city, but a cheap and cheerful old Excel chugging along until it's next breakdown would suit an area of deprivation and low employment.

Like any product, it works best when targeted at the consumers. Although I share the view that buses can and probably will move upmarket, we as an industry need to appreciate that it's not as black and white as it used to be. There are a number of different markets and each need different products and delivery strategies.

Further reading: everything about Trent Barton

It should not be about 'business sense', when we are talking about an important public service. However, you can still run a decent service even when buses are run by the private sector. For example, in the Netherlands, outside the three main cities where they are still council run, all buses are run by private firms.

I am asking for uniformly high quality. That does not mean running the same vehicle type on every route. Taking the Netherlands as an example again, they run bendy buses where demand is high, but not on less busy routes.

I do find it rather offensive to suggest that just because an area is deprived, they only deserve a poor quality service. If you look at mainland Europe, it is actually rather common for poorer areas to have particularly good service. For example Amsterdam Zuid Oost and Husby in Stockholm are served by the metro, and the poorer suburbs of Utrecht have a tram, the only tram line in the city.

 

[ECML180]

It should not be about 'business sense', when we are talking about an important public service. However, you can still run a decent service even when buses are run by the private sector. For example, in the Netherlands, outside the three main cities where they are still council run, all buses are run by private firms.

Agreed, the service is a merit good and is beneficial to the community, but where it is provided by a company out to make a profit, very few companies consider the need to provide a public service the first priority.

I am asking for uniformly high quality. That does not mean running the same vehicle type on every route. Taking the Netherlands as an example again, they run bendy buses where demand is high, but not on less busy routes.

I think you missed my point, in the same way that capacity can be mismatched with demand, so can the features and 'extras' on a service. Like you say, less busy routes don't need big buses and so you can follow on that routes with less disabled/elderly need less low floor seating. Each service and consumer group need different things for what they consider a high quality service.

I do find it rather offensive to suggest that just because an area is deprived, they only deserve a poor quality service. If you look at mainland Europe, it is actually rather common for poorer areas to have particularly good service. For example Amsterdam Zuid Oost and Husby in Stockholm are served by the metro, and the poorer suburbs of Utrecht have a tram, the only tram line in the city.

I don't think anyone suggested that. You've now moved the goalposts with a good service now seeming to mean 'better vehicles' or more capacity. Areas of deprivation tend towards low priced goods and services, buses should be no different. Try and charge more and not only does it make bad business sense but it means you are providing the public service to less people, effectively you're excluding the poor. Likewise, public transport is usually more popular at the lower end of the income scale, hence why when trams, light rail and metros become a viable option for a city, it is often the poorer areas that receive it.

 

[yorkie]

The thread title is Bus ticket accounting/audit but recent posts appear to have been discussing Funding and regulation of bus services.

It has been proposed posts #40 onwards are split into a new thread. If anyone has any concerns, objections or comments, please reply via PM (not on this thread), if there are no concerns I will enact the proposal later today.

Edit: this has been done, the thread is Funding and regulation of bus services