Bus stuck on crossing

[WestRiding]

just this min seen the video, what a di**head. he should never be allowed to drive another bus, loaded or otherwise.

 

[90019]

I thought you had to be 21 to drive a vehicle of that size?

It's been 18 for a few years now.

I don't think many 21 year olds are mature enough to be responsible for the lives of a double decker bus worth of passengers.

But there are plenty of us who are.
I think there's one other driver at my depot who's 21, and quite a few who are under 25.

 

[GB]

While what the driver did was stupid, I don't think that alone is enough to bring someones (or a group's) maturity into question.

 

[Tomnick]

I know nothing of how this particular crossing works, but I thought the signalman has to keep the button pressed through the whole sequence. The monitors are normally directly in front. I am surprised the barriers did not stop.

No, at most CCTV crossings, the barrier lowering sequence doesn't necessarily have to be supervised throughout. The Signalman presses the lower button (and, if auto-lower is provided, even that's not required), and only needs to check the crossing again once the barriers are down.

There's been plenty of discussion previously elsewhere on the forum about reducing delays to road traffic - obviously it's good to keep the barriers down for as little time as possible, but sometimes the Signalman's workload makes it necessary to drop them earlier than would normally be the case, or keep them down when there might be an opportunity to raise them briefly. Sometimes it's pure laziness (which I can't and won't defend!), but in the vast majority of cases that isn't the cause!

 

[GearJammer]

As has been said you have to be 21 to drive a HGV.... however, younger drivers can get an HGV licence if they undertake an apprentiship thing (i don't know the details), people as young as 19 i think do these apprentiships and can get an HGV licence and its being proposed to introduce more of it, the road haulage industry is faceing a ticking time bomb regarding a lack of drivers, after 2014 when all drivers must have a CPC driver card is when i personally think it will start to really show, older drivers don't want or need training so are chooseing to leave the industry or retire, and with a complete lack of young people coming into the industry there will be a problem, the trouble is as has been said you have (at the moment) to be 21 before you can start a career as an HGV driver, most people have by that age already chosen a career path, building for example, youngsters can start this as school leavers, you can't go down the driving route straight from school, it seems from whats been said the bus industry has insured itself by allowing young people to drive buses.

As for the crossing incident i think the guy should loose his PCV licence, im also surprised that no action and little comment has been made about the tractor driver, who, lets face it, only just missed getting caught by the barrier themself, if i was a train driver i personnally would much rather hit a bus than a tractor!

 

[90019]

As has been said you have to be 21 to drive a HGV.... however, younger drivers can get an HGV licence if they undertake an apprentiship thing (i don't know the details)

This is no longer the case - it's also 18 for HGV licences, as well as buses. I was 20 when I got my class 2. Not got round to the class 1 yet.

However, the HGV industry isn't helping itself, as a lot of companies won't take on anyone under 25, of those that will, some of them won't take anyone under 23, and others it's no one under 21. Added to that, the majority of HGV driving jobs require you to have 2 years experience.
So we end up with the catch 22, you need the experience to get the job, but you can't get the experiene without getting the job.

My best friend has had his class 2 for about 2 years now, and is currently doing a job that he hates in a shop, because the only driving job he could get was doing recovery for a properly dodgy company that treated it's drivers like sh*t, which he only managed 6 months of (most of their drivers last less than a year). Everything else available either requires experience or he's to young for (he's also 21).

 

[anthony263]

I might learn to drive a lorry soon when I have the money to do so (Especially if my boses would bloody well pay me on time not over a week late).


I can tell you I have seen some people shocked when they learn the bus driver is only 18 and I have had to show some people to prove my point

 

[cainebj]

You can learn to drive both HGV and PCV at 18, but you cannot drive under EU driving regulations, meaning you cannot drive over 50km on an A-B journey (max 50km from start point on Domestic driving regulations). It is this regulation that see's many bus services nowadays being split mid-route, for example Stagecoach service 685 is split as Carlisle-Brampton, Brampton-Hexham and Hexham-Newcastle, at each of those splits the 50km limit is reset as its on the paperwork as a different service. It is more difficult to manage it like that on HGV though, unless it is a set of short deliveries where each drop off or loading is less than 50km apart.

 

[Wikipedia]

And why did the bus sit there with it's door closed? Shouldn't the driver have opened them and told the passengers to get off ASAP?

Nevermind the pax, I'd have been out of there ASAP myself!

 

[Stephen55a1960]

Indeed. The only reason he got trapped is because he did something incredibly stupid. The guy should be sacked and stripped of his licence as he's obviously not responsible enough to drive a PSV.

I believe he was sacked by the bus company: and went on to work, for a second company?

 

[83G/84D]

I've been on a down train approaching Gwinear road ahb crossing, I could see cars crossing, then the next view, barriers coming down 10 to 15 seconds later we were on the crossing. train speed 60 mph approx.

I know nothing of how this particular crossing works, but I thought the signalman has to keep the button pressed through the whole sequence. The monitors are normally directly in front. I am surprised the barriers did not stop.

As for drivers doing this type of offence, at least a few weeks ban and/or retake their test, should be the least they get.

AHB crossings are not operated by a signalman but by a train operating treadles on the approach to it.

 

[Bushy]

Must be something about buses and railways in that part of Essex. This was less than a month later on the adjacent bridge. Perhaps the driver didn't want to risk running the crossing.

My son got his PSV licence when he was 18. He is a better driver than many older drivers, including me and some professionals. He seems to have a spacial awareness that enables him to manoeuvre any vehicle with little difficulty and know what other drivers are doing.

There is a limited height bridge on a main road near our local bus depot. It is a company rule that no buses use that route, even if they do not exceed he limit.

He has given up driving buses after incidents of abuse. In one incident he was attacked, in a shop on his way to work, by a guy who accused my son of cutting him up. The guy was convicted for ABH. Chances are it was him trying to overtake the bus on a roundabout or similar.There were other incidents involving passengers which led to him giving up.

Regards

Bushy

 

[notadriver]

I'm a (part time) coach driver. There is more to being a good psv driver than being able to drive the vehicle safely. I believe to even have the mentality that you're a better (PSV) driver than others is shortsighted. I don't think I'm a better driver than others but I'm more tolerant and get on well with passengers.

 

[richw]

I thought you had to be 21 to drive a vehicle of that size? Most 18 year olds (I include myself in that when I was 18, too!) can't be trusted with anything more than a 1.25 Fiesta hence the enormous insurance premiums that result if they pick anything else

I had a 1.8 escort estate when I was 18, was cheaper to insure than a 1.2 clio. Ended in a scenario you suggest in your post, found my self sideways into a hedge at 2am one morning after taking a corner in the wet whilst in excess of the national speed limit! The car somehow came out without damage except for mud all inside the wheel rims.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

 

[tsr]

Nevermind the pax, I'd have been out of there ASAP myself!

Yes; and not only that, but if I were the driver, I'd make sure I used any emergency phone that was there - pronto!

 

[bnm]

What I'm very surprised about is the fact that despite this incident and now having nine points on his licence another PSV operator has seen fit to employ him.

Are competent bus drivers very hard to come by in East Anglia?

 

[Ivo]

Must be something about buses and railways in that part of Essex. This was less than a month later on the adjacent bridge. Perhaps the driver didn't want to risk running the crossing.

Manningtree Corssing is known for its double routes. Put simply, if you have something small, you can use the road that passes under the line. If not, wait at the crossing. It's as simple as that.

No double deck bus (or HGV, etc) is going to fit under that gap, so why some people are stupid enough to try is beyond me. Similarly, why some people are stupid enough to run a crossing is beyond me; do they not value their lives?

And it's not excatly a quiet crossing is it? There are as many as 12 trains an hour (allowing for freight) over that route, so people should know that the crossing will be down regularly and to plan for it - but on routes that require regular closures, the barriers do their job tremendously and are never down for (much) longer than is necessary...

 

[Robsignals]

I suspect local road drivers know that full Barrier Crossings are monitored and a train won't approach unless it's clear, at AHB's from barriers fully lowered there's a minimum of 7 secs before a train arrives. In reality 18 year olds only get to drive buses or lorries by being employed which they won't be unless they demonstrate the required competence, how many are claiming not to have made errors of judgement at 21? It would be very harsh to end this man's career over a relatively minor error which we can be sure he won't make again, it's a paradox that drivers are safer after an incident...that they survive.

 

[GB]

The consequence of this incident was minor, the error that led to it was pretty severe.

 

[Robsignals]

Wouldn't have happened with usual 4 barrier arrangement and probably not if it wasn't a tractor in front. Many drivers don't stop until the barriers descend and probably think that's the correct procedure, nothing would've happened in this case if someone at NR hadn't decided to report it. As buses are GPS tracked the operator given the time can easily identify the driver who might be a rail enthusiast who knew he was in no danger on the crossing.

 

[GearJammer]

Wouldn't have happened with usual 4 barrier arrangement and probably not if it wasn't a tractor in front. Many drivers don't stop until the barriers descend and probably think that's the correct procedure, nothing would've happened in this case if someone at NR hadn't decided to report it. As buses are GPS tracked the operator given the time can easily identify the driver who might be a rail enthusiast who knew he was in no danger on the crossing.

Hmmmm, might have to try that in my 44tonner, run the lights and block the crossing, when i get hauled in front of a court i can say 'hey its fine, im a railway enthusiast' and it will all be fine!

:roll:

 

[YorkshireRider]

What I'm very surprised about is the fact that despite this incident and now having nine points on his licence another PSV operator has seen fit to employ him.

Are competent bus drivers very hard to come by in East Anglia?

Are they easily available anywhere? I am a train catering worker and my mate is a first Leeds bus driver, i come out with £200 more a month excluding any overtime, i consider his job a lot more difficult than mine. I feel more money on offer to bus drivers would help the situation.

 

[Goatboy]

I suspect local road drivers know that full Barrier Crossings are monitored and a train won't approach unless it's clear, at AHB's from barriers fully lowered there's a minimum of 7 secs before a train arrives. In reality 18 year olds only get to drive buses or lorries by being employed which they won't be unless they demonstrate the required competence, how many are claiming not to have made errors of judgement at 21? It would be very harsh to end this man's career over a relatively minor error which we can be sure he won't make again, it's a paradox that drivers are safer after an incident...that they survive.

Running a level crossing light is not a minor error nor is it something which is easy to do accidently. It is done deliberately.

 

[OuterDistant]

Similarly, why some people are stupid enough to run a crossing is beyond me; do they not value their lives?

It's economics, but with time instead of money. No matter what the rights and wrongs are, 5 seconds' work ignoring the lights will likely save you 5 minutes, and there's usually a very small chance of being caught.

 

[Robsignals]

Running a level crossing light is not a minor error nor is it something which is easy to do accidently. It is done deliberately.

At all Traffic Signals whether to stop when Yellow shows can be a fine judgement call. At Xings it can mean a delay of some minutes so drivers routinely cross until the barriers stop them. This drivers error was copying the behaviour of his elders and betters when as a professional driver he has too much to lose and probably nothing to gain from saving those minutes.

 

[Goatboy]

At all Traffic Signals whether to stop when Yellow shows can be a fine judgement call. At Xings it can mean a delay of some minutes so drivers routinely cross until the barriers stop them. This drivers error was copying the behaviour of his elders and betters when as a professional driver he has too much to lose and probably nothing to gain from saving those minutes.

You would need to cross the line on a flashing red in order to be forced to stop by a lowering barrier on the other side.

I maintain my opinion that it is not a mistake or an accident that these sort of things happen - it is a calculated and deliberate decision to make a manevouer known to be both illegal and dangerous but which they think they can get away with.

We don't want people with that mentality driving public service vehicles so I remain astounded he got another job with another operator!

 

[BestWestern]

In most cases I know of CCTV camera pictures are of insufficient quality to enable signalling staff to take details of offending vehicles such as colour and registration.

For a start most pictures are black and white and the images are NOT recorded so it would prove rather difficult to pursue any action against any offenders.

Regardless of the design of the barriers,all of which meet all standards and legislation, motorists should STOP once the red lights start flashing.

In my view the bus driver should have his PCV license taken away permanantly.

Surely some locations must record the images, or how else would they end up on YouTube/television etc!?

I agree regarding this idiot's PCV entitlement.

 

[tsr]

Are competent bus drivers very hard to come by in East Anglia?

Yes (from experience). But anyway...

 

[matchmaker]

Wouldn't have happened with usual 4 barrier arrangement and probably not if it wasn't a tractor in front. Many drivers don't stop until the barriers descend and probably think that's the correct procedure, nothing would've happened in this case if someone at NR hadn't decided to report it. As buses are GPS tracked the operator given the time can easily identify the driver who might be a rail enthusiast who knew he was in no danger on the crossing.

Am I missing something? I can see 4 barriers..................

 

[GB]

Am I missing something? I can see 4 barriers..................

Perhaps you have had too much sherry

There is definitely one barrier on each side of the railway at Manningtree.