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Regulations and cost incentives are such that are school services are, within the environment that has been created, always vital. In rural areas they also often always will be.
However in urban areas I wonder how many would still exist if the schools were under joined up LA control AND the buses were in school budgets. I feel that you'd suddenly find that it was possible for far more children to go to their nearest school, and that schools would suddenly become far more able to adjust their capacities in order to allow this to happen!
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It's quite fun that in this thread - apart from the Cambridge link-together-park-and-rides-slowly one - there is no service everyone agrees is useless!
Given the inherent usefulness of public transport, and the current commercial & public sector funding environments, it should be almost impossible for a useless service to exist and actually impossible for one to exist more than a year. It's remarkable that there is as many as one!
"Useless" is also a high bar to cross. There are any number of services that are deeply flawed, for example I offer you the T12 service that is also Cambridge and Peterborough Combined Authority funded; https://bustimes.org/services/t12-longstanton-park-ride-sutton#map . It doesn't run frequently enough or connect with services that run reliably enough to exist as a service that doesn't serve any destinations without connections, it doesn't run early or late enough to get you to most of the available connecting destinations at a useful time for work or study, it runs close to but doesn't serve a number of larger settlements that could also benefit from a more frequent bus service, it links to a settlement that far more falls under Ely's sphere of influence than Huntingdonshire's or Cambridge's and that already has a reasonable service that direction, and it fragments services to the places it serves into two directions where a more frequent service on the existing route would give a better overall passenger experience. However it's absolutely not "useless"; just so critically flawed that it is not long for this world!
Likewise, no passenger needs the positioning journeys operators like Shuttle buses run like the 363 Kilwinning to Colmonell: https://bustimes.org/services/363-kilwinning-colmonell However they serve a purpose, just not a passenger one!
If I can stretch the thread to trams then the Herdings Park branch in Sheffield. Any tram route that's only hourly seems like a waste of money. When I travelled on it there were two of us on board at the terminus.
Some services First recently resurrected in Lanarkshire when the resource really should be used to improve services in Glasgow or the likes of the 240 and 267.
243 Lanark to Motherwell as there’s already adequate provision from JMB.
209 Motherwell to Bellshill via Carfin and Jerviston for the same reason as the 243.
211 Motherwell to Airdrie via Holytown and Calderbank for the same reason as the previous two examples.
I think having school children wandering down footpaths and country lanes for miles on end to get to school, especially during the Winter in the dark, would raise quite a few safeguarding concerns!
Or the '1' service form Selby to Pocklington to Selby, which allows people from Pocklington to go direct and spend a whole three hours in Selby a grand total of twice a week and almost always has nobody on departing Selby on its return journey. I have to say that's a quite niche market, so it doesn't surprise me.
The purpose of the 1 isn't to connect Pocklington to Selby, it used to run from Holme On Spalding Moor but was extended to Pocklington to presumably reduce dead mileage to/from depot. When Arriva ran it, it started in Market Weighton. It provides a shopper service for those near Selby. Some places along the route, like Holme On Spalding Moor, Bubwith & Foggathorpe have a 18 running at nearly the same time to York six days a week with more return journeys which is likely more attractive than a twice a week return journey. to Selby.
Or the '1' service form Selby to Pocklington to Selby, which allows people from Pocklington to go direct and spend a whole three hours in Selby a grand total of twice a week and almost always has nobody on departing Selby on its return journey.
When I used the 1 last month I counted 30 people on the bus leaving Selby with 8 of us travelling to either Market Weighton or Pocklington. Just because you might not use it doesn't mean it isn't useful for others.
I nominate the Leicester FirstBus 13W - one direction, once a day at stupid-o'clock. I assume it's a positioning service to begin another service from Beaumont Leys, but from a passenger perspective it's bonkers. https://bustimes.org/services/13w-narborough-road-optimus-point
If I can stretch the thread to trams then the Herdings Park branch in Sheffield. Any tram route that's only hourly seems like a waste of money. When I travelled on it there were two of us on board at the terminus.
Leighton Road and Herdings Park stops might be underused (although the very poor service frequency won't be helping that!) but the Purple route itself is useful to augment the Blue, providing additional capacity between Gleadless and Sheffield centre.
I nominate the Leicester FirstBus 13W - one direction, once a day at stupid-o'clock. I assume it's a positioning service to begin another service from Beaumont Leys, but from a passenger perspective it's bonkers. https://bustimes.org/services/13w-narborough-road-optimus-point
I will nominate the X6 between Sheffield & Rotherham run by First. Mainly supposed to be a workers service for the services at Junction 33 of M1 but generally carries absolutely no one. It could be replaced quite simply with the X11 rerouting to serve the services & Rotherham Interchange to cover it
I will nominate the X6 between Sheffield & Rotherham run by First. Mainly supposed to be a workers service for the services at Junction 33 of M1 but generally carries absolutely no one. It could be replaced quite simply with the X11 rerouting to serve the services & Rotherham Interchange to cover it
I nominate the Leicester FirstBus 13W - one direction, once a day at stupid-o'clock. I assume it's a positioning service to begin another service from Beaumont Leys, but from a passenger perspective it's bonkers. https://bustimes.org/services/13w-narborough-road-optimus-point
As someone else has said, this is a workers service for Optimus Point. I’ve travelled on it, and can tell you that every seat was taken - therefore, far from useless or bonkers.
Nu-Venture 151 extending to Mereworth (a small village near Kings Hill) on Saturdays only every 2 hours to apparently connect with 7 to Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells, but the journeys I have done to Mereworth and from, I have been the only user onboard and even surprised a driver when I got on at Mereworth one time.
The 77 which ran from West Malling / Kings Hill to Tonbridge (2 journeys to/from Maidstone Hospital) during the week was withdrawn last month but 151 to Mereworth journeys however still run.
Nu-Venture 151 extending to Mereworth (a small village near Kings Hill) on Saturdays only every 2 hours to apparently connect with 7 to Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells, but the journeys I have done to Mereworth and from, I have been the only user onboard and even surprised a driver when I got on at Mereworth one time.
The 77 which ran from West Malling / Kings Hill to Tonbridge (2 journeys to/from Maidstone Hospital) during the week was withdrawn last month but 151 to Mereworth journeys however still run.
Quite a few KCC routes seem to have certain journeys or sections which seem a bit pointless.
For example, on the 36 (Herne Bay Westcliff - Margate) there are 2 journeys which divert to serve Reculver, and 2 journeys which divert to serve St Nicholas at Wade (if drivers don’t forget!)
There is also the first journey of the day which starts at Tankerton rather than Westcliff - but there is no return facility for this.
St Nicholas at Wade already has a frequent bus route to Margate (including to the QEQM hospital that the 36 goes to) in the form of the 8/8A from the main road. The one return journey on the 36 is timed for people to go to Margate, rather than Herne Bay which would perhaps be more useful in terms of coverage.
With Reculver, I have used this journey twice recently and no one has got on or off. Maybe some people do use it but it doesn’t seem worth it for quite a lengthy diversion down a narrow road, which gets highly congested during summer (and especially when there is a solar eclipse! )
I wonder if odd diversions like this are kept just so an authority can say they still serve a certain settlement, or they might just be kept because no one in the authority has actually reviewed the route.
Not so much a service but a single bus journey which is the 19.27 short journey on the 407 from Moreton Cross to Laird Street, this could easily be withdrawn as a 38 goes around the same time & goes further.
In Bicester the first 21 of the day starts at Chesterton. There is currently absolutely no other public transport to the village during the day and this has been like this since 2016!
This changes from 20th September when the village gets a full day service back for the first time in 10 years.
Not so much a service but a single bus journey which is the 19.27 short journey on the 407 from Moreton Cross to Laird Street, this could easily be withdrawn as a 38 goes around the same time & goes further.
I guess it's because it's a placement journey and the 38 is Stagecoach not Arriva.
That said, some folks have a fascination with everything running in service cos, you know, there may be someone wanting to travel at 0513 from depot to odd place. Some of those placement journeys are registered (and many more were when you had to do so to get fuel duty rebate) and whilst they have a use (i.e. to get a bus from a depot to start it's day, or back), they're of little practical use to most passengers.
Any hail & ride service as unless you know it exists there is absolutely no indication on street of its presence. Should be a requirement of a small sign on lamp posts and road sign poles plus occupied timetable cases at frequent intervals.
I came to say Bws Ogwen, which was an 8 minute/4.5 mile shuttle bus between Bethesda and Llyn Ogwen. I've used it a few times, but it was ultimately a 9-seater minibus filling gaps in the full bus T10 service. It was only really of use to people doing an odd northwesterly route on the Carneddau, which isn't that popular as most people either go northeast on the Cambrian Way or indeed are queueing for a photo on the Yr Wyddfa/Snowdon summit.
First Huddersfield's 382. Not completely useless but being scheduled at the same time as the 184 - especially on a Sunday when both services are only every two hours - rather than providing a more regular service makes it fairly pointless for most who could benefit from it.
First Huddersfield's 382. Not completely useless but being scheduled at the same time as the 184 - especially on a Sunday when both services are only every two hours - rather than providing a more regular service makes it fairly pointless for most who could benefit from it.
Quite a few KCC routes seem to have certain journeys or sections which seem a bit pointless.
For example, on the 36 (Herne Bay Westcliff - Margate) there are 2 journeys which divert to serve Reculver, and 2 journeys which divert to serve St Nicholas at Wade (if drivers don’t forget!)
There is also the first journey of the day which starts at Tankerton rather than Westcliff - but there is no return facility for this.
St Nicholas at Wade already has a frequent bus route to Margate (including to the QEQM hospital that the 36 goes to) in the form of the 8/8A from the main road. The one return journey on the 36 is timed for people to go to Margate, rather than Herne Bay which would perhaps be more useful in terms of coverage.
I wonder if odd diversions like this are kept just so an authority can say they still serve a certain settlement, or they might just be kept because no one in the authority has actually reviewed the route.
The 36 diversion via St Nicholas at Wade was introduced when the former Eastonways routes that terminated in the village were withdrawn. There were sufficient numbers of passengers - especially from an OAP complex at The Oaks, where Eastonways had terminated - that offering them something to get to and from Margate was worthwhile, bearing in mind that the main road stops are around 600m away. Whether that is still the case post-Covid, I don't know, but it certainly wasn't useless at the time.
However, I would agree that local authorities do not always review routes, if only because the information generally requested from contractors will be little more than revenue and maybe a breakdown by class of passenger. It's interesting that the Bus Services Act now compels operators to provide more or less full ticket machine data if requested, suggesting that there may have been a reluctance on the part of some to do so.
I guess it's because it's a placement journey and the 38 is Stagecoach not Arriva.
That said, some folks have a fascination with everything running in service cos, you know, there may be someone wanting to travel at 0513 from depot to odd place. Some of those placement journeys are registered (and many more were when you had to do so to get fuel duty rebate) and whilst they have a use (i.e. to get a bus from a depot to start it's day, or back), they're of little practical use to most passengers.
Daft thing is the previous 2 services 18.09 & 1829 from Liverpool to Moreton run dead from Moreton to the depot, so the 18.49 could easily run dead back to the depot after it arrives in Moreton, no one gets the 19.27 as they get the 38 instead regardless of who the operator is, i know this as i live next to both routes.
Currently useless are the two Saturday. Monday and Thursday 139 Ripon-Fountain Abbey (and return) workings given the hourly York-Ripon are extended for the summer to Fountains Abbey running 5 minutes in front to the Abbey and 10/20 later from the Abbey than the 139.
Currently useless are the two Saturday. Monday and Thursday 139 Ripon-Fountain Abbey (and return) workings given the hourly York-Ripon are extended for the summer to Fountains Abbey running 5 minutes in front to the Abbey and 10/20 later from the Abbey than the 139.
Yes but no doubt that the 139 is under contract and very often it is more convenient to leave alone rather than deregistering and re registering journeys over a short period of time. The only saving if these journeys did not run would be a drop of fuel.
Nu-Venture 151 extending to Mereworth (a small village near Kings Hill) on Saturdays only every 2 hours to apparently connect with 7 to Tonbridge/Tunbridge Wells, but the journeys I have done to Mereworth and from, I have been the only user onboard and even surprised a driver when I got on at Mereworth one time.
The 77 which ran from West Malling / Kings Hill to Tonbridge (2 journeys to/from Maidstone Hospital) during the week was withdrawn last month but 151 to Mereworth journeys however still run.
Back in the day the 77 was an Arriva route which ran Tunbridge Wells - Tonbridge - Kings Hill (and on to Maidstone on Sundays in place of the 72). The Mereworth extension might be a replacement for that.
Yes but no doubt that the 139 is under contract and very often it is more convenient to leave alone rather than deregistering and re registering journeys over a short period of time. The only saving if these journeys did not run would be a drop of fuel.
There is a single journey on Bee Network route 360 from Stockport to Hayfield via Hazel Grove and Disley, leaving at 0520 am on weekdays only. The bus then runs as route 358 from Hayfield to New Mills Newtown railway station and back, before returning to Stockport as the first through service on route 358. The 0520 am journey appears to be primarily a positioning move that is run in service; it is unlikely to be of much use to passengers so early in the morning.
Currently useless are the two Saturday. Monday and Thursday 139 Ripon-Fountain Abbey (and return) workings given the hourly York-Ripon are extended for the summer to Fountains Abbey running 5 minutes in front to the Abbey and 10/20 later from the Abbey than the 139.
Yes but no doubt that the 139 is under contract and very often it is more convenient to leave alone rather than deregistering and re registering journeys over a short period of time. The only saving if these journeys did not run would be a drop of fuel.
I don't think I can think of a service in the places I've lived that I would describe as useless. You could possibly point at the old winter evening service on Leeds 22 to Temple Newsam, which basically served a stately home (it's been canned completely although it used to be busy on sunny summer weekends). I think it survived intact for so long because until 1959 it had been a tramway service, which as such often enjoyed a bias over those which had always been bus operated even after the wires were downed.
I've gone to the extremes now, living in a village in Cumbria with one minibus a week although that can be a lifeline for people who don't have a car or have been rendered unable to drive.
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