Bus services you think are useless.

[SalopBuses]

What bus services do you think are useless? These could be short routes, etc.

I will start with the 13 in Telford, it is a 5 minute long route that serves the Hollinswood Estate during the day, during the morning and evening the 3A follows the route of the 13, the 13 interworks with the 7, thus any delays or cancellations on the 7 carry over to the 13.
In my opinion scrap the 3A and 13 and have every journey on the 3 go through Hollinswood.

 

[Egg Centric]

I don't understand the point of a lot of the buses that run around Alston, often just once a week. Who are they for? Route 889W for example.

 

[JKP]

I don't understand the point of a lot of the buses that run around Alston, often just once a week. Who are they for? Route 889W for example.

The 889W gives a weekly shopping facility for those without their own transport from Nenthead to Alston. The journey to Alston also connects with the route towards Penrith and Keswick, though there is no return.

Perhaps you are not aware of market day bus services often providing one return journey a week which have been around since the start of motor bus routes over 100 years ago and are still greatly appreciated by their users.

Have you been to Alston? There is not much there. An hour and a quarter is probably long enough to do a basic shop.

 

[Megafuss]

Re Alston. I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity with all the money spent by the cumbrian councils earlier this year not to make something like the 680A Monday to Friday. But the Haltwhistle bus is now two hourly, so there is at least that (I believe Northumberland funded?)

 

[em81]

It's been withdrawn now but the 47 bus from Warrington's Own Buses was pretty useless. It was basically using vehicles that were on Lymm High School runs and doing nothing between the morning and afternoon runs. So the entire 47 weekday service was:

Lymm to Knutsford
Knutsford to Warrington
Warrington to High Legh
High Legh to Warrington
Warrington to Knutsford
Knutsford to Lymm

If you wanted to get to Tatton Park from Warrington you had to start very early and change at Lymm, and return at around 2:45 with a change or Lymm. Alternatively get the afternoon direct bus, but then have to walk all the way to Broomedge to get a bus home!

 

[AilsaBus]

Everything ran by First Glasgow.

 

[Egg Centric]

The 889W gives a weekly shopping facility for those without their own transport from Nenthead to Alston. The journey to Alston also connects with the route towards Penrith and Keswick, though there is no return.

Perhaps you are not aware of market day bus services often providing one return journey a week which have been around since the start of motor bus routes over 100 years ago and are still greatly appreciated by their users.

Have you been to Alston? There is not much there. An hour and a quarter is probably long enough to do a basic shop.

I have indeed been to Alston, that's how I know about these bus services, I took one look at them and decided to drive!

If there's an actual use for them then well, who am I to judge? I would have thought it must be terrifying though, having to get your shopping in knowing there's one return bus back a week (yes obviously someone in that position would find another way back in reality, but it's still rubbish imo).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I have indeed been to Alston, that's how I know about these bus services, I took one look at them and decided to drive!

If there's an actual use for them then well, who am I to judge? I would have thought it must be terrifying though, having to get your shopping in knowing there's one return bus back a week (yes obviously someone in that position would find another way back in reality, but it's still rubbish imo).

Bus services of this type have been running for years; the passengers are probably the same each week so they know the drill. It was common for a bus/coach to do a school run, then a market day service and have a 3 hr gap, and then run back in time for the afternoon schools. Rural counties used to have loads but many have disappeared though there's some around Thirsk and Ripon on their market days.

My selection is the T2 in Cambridge. It runs from one Madingley Park and Ride to Fen Ditton and Milton Park and Ride via Impington. I'm sure the idea is to provide links from Histon and Impington (though it avoids the former) to the Eddington development and.... but on the limited viewing I see of it, it's usually a decker with a driver and perhaps one passenger?

 

[Farigiraf]

My selection is the T2 in Cambridge. It runs from one Madingley Park and Ride to Fen Ditton and Milton Park and Ride via Impington. I'm sure the idea is to provide links from Histon and Impington (though it avoids the former) to the Eddington development and.... but on the limited viewing I see of it, it's usually a decker with a driver and perhaps one passenger?

Agree with you there, and the frequency (1bph) is also low enough that few people will pick it over cycling or driving (or walking tbh). At the moment it actually continues past Milton P&R to (surprise) another P&R at Newmarket Road, though this section is panned to be cut back. I think the only realistic use case is for kids living along the route to travel up to Impington college. The cynic in me says that they deliberately trialled a useless route so that they don't have to bother with funding orbital routes as they'll have the failed trial to point to, though they may just be terrible at designing bus services.

The plan is to rework it into a proper orbital route to Trumpington via Coton and Grantchester (in theory connecting with the southern orbital at Trumpington P&R, a sorry excuse for an interchange), with the northeastern part totally scrapped with no alternative. Not much better, as it'd still be hopelessly slow and not frequent enough to be competitive with other modes but frankly I'm glad it's not being fully cut - it's a reocurring gripe of mine but I still can't get over the fact that CPCA is franchising buses just to make it easier to cut services (to 'reduce taxpayer costs'). Laughably out of touch!

Sadly though a lot of great examples for mostly-useless buses are being cut back and replaced with DRT, as otherwise I'd have nominated the once-a-day one-way 6am 13B service from Nosterfield End to Linton, which can't even classify as a subsidised shuttle for 1-2 people as I don't think a single person used it.

 

[stevieinselby]

For me, it's very short town buses that I question the merit of. Routes like the RS1 in Ripon which does a useful loop out to the Bishopton area of town, then has a 7–8 minute wait at the bus station before doing a run out to an M&S that takes 2–3 minutes each way – then it returns to the bus station, sits and waits for 15 minutes, does another hop out to M&S and back, waits for another 7–10 minutes and then heads off to Bishopton. With the long wait at the bus station, for most people travelling from Bishopton to M&S they would be quicker to get off at the bus station and walk! The wait doesn't help the scheduling either but pushes it further away from being an even 30 minute frequency compared to if it ran straight through. I can't believe there are that many people who want to get the bus from the town centre to M&S but can't/won't walk half a mile each way that it merits 2 buses an hour!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

For me, it's very short town buses that I question the merit of. Routes like the RS1 in Ripon which does a useful loop out to the Bishopton area of town, then has a 7–8 minute wait at the bus station before doing a run out to an M&S that takes 2–3 minutes each way – then it returns to the bus station, sits and waits for 15 minutes, does another hop out to M&S and back, waits for another 7–10 minutes and then heads off to Bishopton. With the long wait at the bus station, for most people travelling from Bishopton to M&S they would be quicker to get off at the bus station and walk! The wait doesn't help the scheduling either but pushes it further away from being an even 30 minute frequency compared to if it ran straight through. I can't believe there are that many people who want to get the bus from the town centre to M&S but can't/won't walk half a mile each way that it merits 2 buses an hour!

Think of the demographic using that service... mainly ENCTS?

 

[Kite159]

Re Alston. I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity with all the money spent by the cumbrian councils earlier this year not to make something like the 680A Monday to Friday. But the Haltwhistle bus is now two hourly, so there is at least that (I believe Northumberland funded?)

That 681 seems to have changed from running to Birdoswald, to only going as far as Carvoran to provide a higher frequency service towards Alston

Although I wonder how many passengers will be on the route 691 each day (06:30 from Hexham) which I presume acts solely as a positioning service for the 681

 

[joieman]

Last month, Arriva introduced the hourly Sundays-only service 127A (Leicester to Shepshed), which runs via Meeting Street, Chaveney Road and Woodhouse Lane in Quorn instead of Loughborough Road, to provide a bus service to the Great Central Railway's Quorn & Woodhouse railway station on the corner of Chaveney Road and Woodhouse Lane. But Centrebus's service 154, which also runs via Meeting Street and Chaveney Road, has already had a Sunday service since last year.

Back in April, Arriva also replaced the service 49 with a complicated series of extensions to the 44/44A, including a new service 44B to Kibworth Beauchamp. Why there needed to be a new bus service to Kibworth, separate to the 44A to Fleckney and with no intermediate bus stops between Wigston Magna and Kibworth apart from a solitary stop in Wistow (towards Leicester only!), is quite perplexing. Why not just have one bus service to Fleckney AND Kibworth Beauchamp, like with the Sunday service 44S?!

 

[Simon75]

Not a service but First Potteries 25 Hanley to Keele University, extends about 1/2 a mile to Keele village. This is basically as there , as there is turning circle/lay over in village by the pub.
Rare to see a local on the bus (apart from visitors catching a bus to the pub)

 

[gingerheid]

My selection is the T2 in Cambridge. It runs from one Madingley Park and Ride to Fen Ditton and Milton Park and Ride via Impington. I'm sure the idea is to provide links from Histon and Impington (though it avoids the former) to the Eddington development and.... but on the limited viewing I see of it, it's usually a decker with a driver and perhaps one passenger?

I came here to say the same thing.

I think what's incredible about it is:
- the fact that Cambridge couldn't benefit from orbital services but the two we got carefully avoids most of the places they could usefully serve
- the number of places they serve that you would only be at if you had a car... that would in almost every case be a better way of completing the journey

To me the potential destinations of an orbital service in Cambridge are places without an existing link to:

- Addenbrooke's
- West Cambridge
- The science park
- A supermarket (as the ones in the centre are a bit small)
- A railway station

Or park and ride sites that don't have an existing link to places with no or expensive parking, AND where it wouldn't be easier to drive to somehwere that did have such a link.

Other the other hand, we we don't need is an orbital service that duplicates existing links to Addebrooke's, that mostly links Park and Ride sites to each other, or that is the only or main service to villages that would benefit more from a service to the city centre.

I'm pretty sure this means that the best potential for an orbital service is Newmarket Road P&R to Addenbrooke's (the only bit of the circle not served), that other socially valuable links might include Cambridge North or the Science Park (which are currently omitted by the T3), and that people on the T4 route need a better service to Cambridge more than a bus to Addenbrooke's.

 

[Ballyheigue]

Re Alston. I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity with all the money spent by the cumbrian councils earlier this year not to make something like the 680A Monday to Friday. But the Haltwhistle bus is now two hourly, so there is at least that (I believe Northumberland funded?)

Carlisle has gone right downhill so there probably isn't the demand for anything more often than already is on the 680A. Very surprised about the Saturday Penrith route however, as again Penrith has nothing, so I'd have thought the 888 would be enough unless it's to specifically serve Sainsbury's in the town?

 

[Megafuss]

Carlisle has gone right downhill so there probably isn't the demand for anything more often than already is on the 680A. Very surprised about the Saturday Penrith route however, as again Penrith has nothing, so I'd have thought the 888 would be enough unless it's to specifically serve Sainsbury's in the town?

It stops at the Rail Station, so the good folk of Alston and Langwathby could have a "day out" at Booths and Mcdonalds if they wanted ☺️

 

[SSmith2009]

Last month, Arriva introduced the hourly Sundays-only service 127A (Leicester to Shepshed), which runs via Meeting Street, Chaveney Road and Woodhouse Lane in Quorn instead of Loughborough Road, to provide a bus service to the Great Central Railway's Quorn & Woodhouse railway station on the corner of Chaveney Road and Woodhouse Lane. But Centrebus's service 154, which also runs via Meeting Street and Chaveney Road, has already had a Sunday service since last year.

Back in April, Arriva also replaced the service 49 with a complicated series of extensions to the 44/44A, including a new service 44B to Kibworth Beauchamp. Why there needed to be a new bus service to Kibworth, separate to the 44A to Fleckney and with no intermediate bus stops between Wigston Magna and Kibworth apart from a solitary stop in Wistow (towards Leicester only!), is quite perplexing. Why not just have one bus service to Fleckney AND Kibworth Beauchamp, like with the Sunday service 44S?!

If anything the 44A/44B would be better being sent along Welford Road instead of Aylestone Lane, I believe the Kibworth extension is funded by the Cranes Way development.

Add to the list - the section of the 87 to Fosse Park, it's affected reliability of the 87 and the 85 too.

 

[BuhSnarf]

For me, it's very short town buses that I question the merit of. Routes like the RS1 in Ripon which does a useful loop out to the Bishopton area of town, then has a 7–8 minute wait at the bus station before doing a run out to an M&S that takes 2–3 minutes each way – then it returns to the bus station, sits and waits for 15 minutes, does another hop out to M&S and back, waits for another 7–10 minutes and then heads off to Bishopton. With the long wait at the bus station, for most people travelling from Bishopton to M&S they would be quicker to get off at the bus station and walk! The wait doesn't help the scheduling either but pushes it further away from being an even 30 minute frequency compared to if it ran straight through. I can't believe there are that many people who want to get the bus from the town centre to M&S but can't/won't walk half a mile each way that it merits 2 buses an hour!

If it's M&S, I can well believe that there are people that can't walk that half mile. Their demographic definitely skews more elderly.

If anything the 44A/44B would be better being sent along Welford Road instead of Aylestone Lane, I believe the Kibworth extension is funded by the Cranes Way development.

Add to the list - the section of the 87 to Fosse Park, it's affected reliability of the 87 and the 85 too.

The 87 is pretty good for those in South Wigston wanting to get to Fosse Park as the Orbital doesn't call in South Wigston. Although rather crazily at the same time Centrebus introduced the LC17. I think it would have made sense to make the LC17 do a 7 day service and then the 85/87 could go back to it's previous workings.

 

[Farigiraf]

To me the potential destinations of an orbital service in Cambridge are places without an existing link to:

- Addenbrooke's
- West Cambridge
- The science park
- A supermarket (as the ones in the centre are a bit small)
- A railway station

Or park and ride sites that don't have an existing link to places with no or expensive parking, AND where it wouldn't be easier to drive to somehwere that did have such a link.

But you miss the most crucial thing: that would be well used! A well-used bus costs money to run, and therefore is low down the priority list for Cambridge bus developments. I wish I could explain why it's important to link 3-4 different park & ride sites to each other (detouring 20-30 mins to serve small villages with better alternatives) but I really have no idea what the logic is behind it.

I'm pretty sure this means that the best potential for an orbital service is Newmarket Road P&R to Addenbrooke's (the only bit of the circle not served), that other socially valuable links might include Cambridge North or the Science Park (which are currently omitted by the T3), and that people on the T4 route need a better service to Cambridge more than a bus to Addenbrooke's.

This is the current plan, which includes more or less none of your sensible suggestions. The 'B' and 'C' routes are planned to have a timed 10 min connection in Burwell but I doubt it'll be regularly held. I reckon route 'C' will potentially end up in this thread at some point as it manages to avoid nearly every 'destination' (shops, stations, hospitals) and instead connects a lot of 'origins' (small villages) where driving/cycling will always be faster.

 

[joieman]

Add to the list - the section of the 87 to Fosse Park, it's affected reliability of the 87 and the 85 too.

And it would make better sense to split the 85 and 87 at South Wigston instead of Countesthorpe, especially given that the 85 runs through to South Wigston on Sundays (and it looks like there's going to be a short 87 journey between South Wigston and Countesthorpe only when the timetables are changed this weekend).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Aug 2026 ==

A random idea I had would be to merge the First 4 and the Arriva 6/6A into one route going around the houses in Thurmaston (and probably skipping Melton Road to avoid duplication with the 5/5A).

 

[kijeta]

Stagecoach London's SCS.

Id argue it'll have some potential use if they did allow pedestrians onboard with a £1.75 hopper fare, with the fare being waived on presentation of a bicycle. But as of now, it seems like a worse alternative of Dartford Crossing's taxi service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But you miss the most crucial thing: that would be well used! A well-used bus costs money to run, and therefore is low down the priority list for Cambridge bus developments. I wish I could explain why it's important to link 3-4 different park & ride sites to each other (detouring 20-30 mins to serve small villages with better alternatives) but I really have no idea what the logic is behind it.

Whilst I'm on a roll with Cambridgeshire... I'd be interested to hear from locals with experience of the T7 from Chatteris to Wisbech. I've not experienced it but on the few times that I've been out in that part of the Fens, I've never thought that it was the missing link.

For the uninitiated, it runs from Chatteris (sleepy Fens town) north to Wisbech (busier Fenland town) but avoiding the only major town (March - yep, another sleepy market town where they still point at planes). Instead, the main roads is left to other services to March (combined hourly frequency) and another hourly March to Wisbech route whilst the T7 circuitiously serves a selection of tiny villages with three vehicles out all day from 0600 to 2300.

As I say, I've not been on it/seen it so I'd be interested to hear from someone who has.

 

[SSmith2009]

A random idea I had would be to merge the First 4 and the Arriva 6/6A into one route going around the houses in Thurmaston (and probably skipping Melton Road to avoid duplication with the 5/5A).

or even as a 4A going via Melton Road to Sainsbury's into Rushey Mead and through to the dales estate and onto asda.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess there are two meanings of useless, that is:

- Bus services that appear to serve no purpose and carry few or no passengers.

- Bus services that are of extremely poor quality.

I'd venture the Milton Keynes network as an example of the latter. I can't think of any that would fit the former, but I'm sure they exist somewhere, e.g. poorly designed tendered routes.

 

[SoloSR334022]

The 802 and 803 runs by McGill's Midland Bluebird are pretty useless a couple journeys in the early morning and evening. The 802 from the Deans Depot to Linlithgow and 803 from the Deans Depot to Maddiston. Never seen seem them carry passengers but they are just fancy depot runs.

 

[E B]

I think the portion of the Arriva Midlands North service 6 from Nuneaton Bus Station - George Eliot Hospital - Callander Farm could qualify. I see it quite regularly, and I rarely ever see more than 1 or 2 passengers on that portion of the route. The 6A already serves Nuneaton - St Nicholas Park - Callander Farm much faster than the 6, and the 6 goes close enough to Callander Farm between MIRA and Nuneaton that it is actually quicker to get off on Higham Lane and walk the 15-20 minutes to the Callander Farm estate.

Perhaps something like this could be better (I’m no expert on the operational side of things):

Blue - existing Route 6
Red - New routing for Route 6
Green - New routing for Route 6A
Section crossed out no longer to be served by 6, now only to be served by Route 7

 

[leedslad82]

964 - Otley - Town Service

Connexions Buses

bustimes.org

I will add the 964 in otley. 10 mins circuit from otley bus station that runs 3 times a day weekdays only.

It interworks with other services and im not saying get rid. But maybe serve it as an extension of another service and more often as it is a bit of a trek to main road for the x84 service from leeds

 

[RT4038]

I think the portion of the Arriva Midlands North service 6 from Nuneaton Bus Station - George Eliot Hospital - Callander Farm could qualify. I see it quite regularly, and I rarely ever see more than 1 or 2 passengers on that portion of the route. The 6A already serves Nuneaton - St Nicholas Park - Callander Farm much faster than the 6, and the 6 goes close enough to Callander Farm between MIRA and Nuneaton that it is actually quicker to get off on Higham Lane and walk the 15-20 minutes to the Callander Farm estate.

Perhaps something like this could be better (I’m no expert on the operational side of things):

Blue - existing Route 6
Red - New routing for Route 6
Green - New routing for Route 6A
Section crossed out no longer to be served by 6, now only to be served by Route 7

I think you'll find that the particular requirements of this part of the network are (a) Polesworth, Baddesley Ensor and Atherstone to be directly [through bus] linked to the George Eliot Hospital at least every hour, (b) Baddesley Ensor and Polesworth directly linked [through bus] to Ventura Park, Tamworth at least every hour, (c) Two buses per hour, reasonably spaced, along the full length of Higham Lane to the A5, (serving new development) and (d) for Callander Farm Estate to have 2 buses per hour, reasonably spaced, to and from Nuneaton Town Centre. Obviously both requirements to be fulfilled with the minimum number of extra buses (to the previous network) to be in use. An added bonus with the current network is that Callander Farm gets a direct link to the Hospital as well.

Of course, Callander Farm is under construction. There are other proposals / permissions / under constructions for considerable additional housing and additional road network nearby, which probably means that the current bus network is a 'work in progress' , running as economically as possible.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

964 - Otley - Town Service

Connexions Buses

bustimes.org

I will add the 964 in otley. 10 mins circuit from otley bus station that runs 3 times a day weekdays only.

It interworks with other services and im not saying get rid. But maybe serve it as an extension of another service and more often as it is a bit of a trek to main road for the x84 service from leeds

I'm guessing it's a low cost shoppers service for pass holders?