Bus Service Operators' Grant - registering routes back to depots

[MotCO]

As I understand it, Bus Service Operators Grant is a subsidy for the cost of fuel for operating bus services, but only for in-service mileage. I live in the catchment area of Southdown PSV, and note that many of their early evening journeys are routed to Snow Hill, close to their depot, presuambly to make use of the BSOG. This makes me wonder if other operators also make use of this concession, or whether its because its drivers rotas are close to the maximum driving hours so may not be able to make further in-service runs. Or alternatively, why do operators not register journeys from the last terminal back to the garage, maybe as express, limited stop routes if it doesn't normally pass near the depot, in order to take advantage of BSOG?

 

[AdamWW]

As I understand it, Bus Service Operators Grant is a subsidy for the cost of fuel for operating bus services, but only for in-service mileage. I live in the catchment area of Southdown PSV, and note that many of their early evening journeys are routed to Snow Hill, close to their depot, presuambly to make use of the BSOG. This makes me wonder if other operators also make use of this concession, or whether its because its drivers rotas are close to the maximum driving hours so may not be able to make further in-service runs. Or alternatively, why do operators not register journeys from the last terminal back to the garage, maybe as express, limited stop routes if it doesn't normally pass near the depot, in order to take advantage of BSOG?

I have certainly seen multiple journeys back to a depot run as a commercial service to maximise subsidy.

 

[Simon75]

A similar thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ileage-trips-more-common.228160/#post-5535828

 

[Contains Nuts]

BSOG is also paid on dead mileage. It can only be claimed on commercial services and not local authority tenders.

 

[MotCO]

A similar thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ileage-trips-more-common.228160/#post-5535828

Doh! I even responded to that thread as well

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have certainly seen multiple journeys back to a depot run as a commercial service to maximise subsidy.

Some operators have done it for years, not always anything to do with BSOG but just because if the bus is running and has a driver it might as well be in service as it might be useful to someone! See also the morning Tring-Euston semifasts starting back at Bletchley because they come off the sidings there and have crew so they might as well.

Bit of extra BSOG too though.

 

[WibbleWobble]

BSOG is also paid on dead mileage. It can only be claimed on commercial services and not local authority tenders.

Services are still eligible for BSOG, it is just paid to the local authority instead. The authority can choose whether or not to pass it onto the operator, although if they don't then in reality it will just push up the tender price.

It isn't eligible on services registered as "schools or works", even if the public can use it. Nor can it be claimed on any part of the route that is not publicly accessible, such as the section of route between a school grounds and the first stop.

 

[Dai Corner]

Services are still eligible for BSOG, it is just paid to the local authority instead. The authority can choose whether or not to pass it onto the operator, although if they don't then in reality it will just push up the tender price.

It isn't eligible on services registered as "schools or works", even if the public can use it. Nor can it be claimed on any part of the route that is not publicly accessible, such as the section of route between a school grounds and the first stop.

Has anyone ever tried to board a school service registered as public?

I've been refused in the past, even when lots of schoolchildren have got off and there are clearly plenty of seats.

 

[AdamWW]

Has anyone ever tried to board a school service registered as public?

I've been refused in the past, even when lots of schoolchildren have got off and there are clearly plenty of seats.

I was on a service bus once where part way along the route all the passengers were moved to one side of the aisle and the other side became a school bus for a bit.

That was in the US though.

It wasn't even yellow.

 

[WibbleWobble]

Has anyone ever tried to board a school service registered as public?

I've been refused in the past, even when lots of schoolchildren have got off and there are clearly plenty of seats.

If it is registered as "schools or works", then the public can be refused. Otherwise, anyone should be able to use it.

And to answer your question - I have (and used it regularly as part of a commute as it was the only direct bus!)

 

[WM Bus]

Has anyone ever tried to board a school service registered as public?

I've been refused in the past, even when lots of schoolchildren have got off and there are clearly plenty of seats.

I caught National Express 7523 on the 877 this morning. Relatively quiet today as a lot of children are off because of school strikes.
This one is on board 60/11 so spends the day on the 60's afterwards. Plus it starts and terminates at the public bus stop on the road outside the school to, so no private grounds.

I would guess sometimes it might be the driver hasn't been made aware by the depot that a school service is open to the public.

 

[mb88]

Has anyone ever tried to board a school service registered as public?

I've been refused in the past, even when lots of schoolchildren have got off and there are clearly plenty of seats.

I used to regularly drive TfL ‘school’ services in the Bromley and Croydon areas, and only once did I have a non-student passenger board, although they are available for use by anyone. I think she soon realised her mistake when surrounded by 70 odd boisterous children, and the next day I saw her waiting at the stop, and let me go by to wait for the ‘normal’ service to come.

 

[Dai Corner]

I used to regularly drive TfL ‘school’ services in the Bromley and Croydon areas, and only once did I have a non-student passenger board, although they are available for use by anyone. I think she soon realised her mistake when surrounded by 70 odd boisterous children, and the next day I saw her waiting at the stop, and let me go by to wait for the ‘normal’ service to come.

I'm reasonably tolerant of boisterous schoolchildren having worked amongst them but my frustration was that I'd been waiting ages as the normal service I'd wanted to catch had been cancelled, probably so the driver could do the school journey instead.

 

[Geordie driver]

If it is registered as "schools or works", then the public can be refused. Otherwise, anyone should be able to use it.

And to answer your question - I have (and used it regularly as part of a commute as it was the only direct bus!)

Buses in Tyne and Wear are, or at least were, open to the public. The screen would read "Scholars, all passengers welcome", but it was very rare for non scholars to travel and when they did I would always ask them if they were sure they wanted this service.

By the time they got off they would be ashen faced and shaking.

 

[PeterC]

Where I live one public schooldays only service has been known to simply ignore a an adult hailing the vehicle at a stop. The drivers generally seem to concentrate on getting the students home with little regard for subsequent timing points.

 

[markymark2000]

Where I live one public schooldays only service has been known to simply ignore a an adult hailing the vehicle at a stop. The drivers generally seem to concentrate on getting the students home with little regard for subsequent timing points.

Yes, that is a big issue. I know Stagecoach in my area told drivers to ignore the intermediate timing points after a driver stopped for 7 minutes at the very first timing point (before any kids had even got off) and just get kids home.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, that is a big issue. I know Stagecoach in my area told drivers to ignore the intermediate timing points after a driver stopped for 7 minutes at the very first timing point (before any kids had even got off) and just get kids home.

If they're going to do that, they shouldn't be registered as public bus services, or should be registered as pick-up only at the origin and set-down only at all further stops. Otherwise, time must be waited for and so that driver was totally correct.

 

[Llandudno]

If they're going to do that, they shouldn't be registered as public bus services, or should be registered as pick-up only at the origin and set-down only at all further stops. Otherwise, time must be waited for and so that driver was totally correct.

or change the timetable and and adjust the running time between intermediate timing points…

 

[Bletchleyite]

or change the timetable and and adjust the running time between intermediate timing points…

Or that, but not such that you're going to run late either.

 

[PeterC]

Yes, that is a big issue. I know Stagecoach in my area told drivers to ignore the intermediate timing points after a driver stopped for 7 minutes at the very first timing point (before any kids had even got off) and just get kids home.

I don't know about stagecoach but when I raised the issue locally I was told that the bus had been full. There must have been a few people lying on the floor in that case.