Bus operators getting rid of return tickets.

[bathbuses]

For many years discounted return tickets were only available after 9:30 so if you caught the bus to and from work you had to pay for two singles. The return was to try and encourage casual travellers to use the bus after the morning peak.

Funny you say that because First WoE have have made return tickets only available via tap on tap off

 

[323235]

Is that really a true return ticket though if it is via tap in and tap off or just two singles?

 

[stevieinselby]

Why do so many bus operators keep getting rid of return tickets?

Arriva have just announced that return tickets are being withdrawn in January. Stagecoach have just announced that return tickets are being withdrawn in January. Some (but not all) of the Go Ahead bus companies have just announced that return tickets are being withdrawn in January. So that is three more major bus companies withdrawing them.

In practical terms, many passengers have not had the option to buy a return ticket for a very long time ... I've lived here in Selby for about 20 years and in all that time I'm sure that the "return" fare Arriva sell to York has always just been an all-day ticket, with only very short journeys having a return fare that was less than the all-day ticket ... the same is true on many operators.

It could be down to how the local authorities and DfT view the ‘basket of fares’ when calculating the level of reimbursement due for allowing concession passes to travel for free. Doing away with returns may be to the benefit of the operators within such calculations. However, as I don’t work for an English based operator I don’t know the ins and outs of those discussions. Perhaps one of our learned friends south of the border may be able to advise?

I would be surprised if operators would be better off under ENCTS by selling all-day tickets rather than returns – if I've understood the calculations right, they would maximise their ENCTS income by not selling all-day tickets for passengers making a simple return journey.

If a passenger buys a single ticket then the assumed fare is the fare paid (obviously!)
If a passenger buys a return ticket then the assumed fare is half the fare paid
If a passenger buys an all-day ticket then the assumed fare is ²/₇ of the fare paid (estimating that passengers will on average make 3.5 journeys on an all-day ticket)

So if a bus company charges £7 return then for every passenger who buys a return, that will contribute two single fares of £3.50 each to the basket – whereas if they charge £7 all-day then every passenger who makes a return journey is contributing four single fares of £2 each to the basket, meaning that when the average single fare for the basket is calculated, it will be substantially lower.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I mean that's just blatantly not true given bristol has had them right up until now.

Other than on the airport bus, I’ve always been pushed towards the day ticket by drivers in Bristol. But I’ve been there twice in ten years so I don’t really know what the situation is there.

I honestly can’t think of any other urban areas that do but I’m sure there are a couple of outliers. Certainly none of the urban areas I’m familiar with have returns and have not had them for a very very long time.

 

[bathbuses]

Is that really a true return ticket though if it is via tap in and tap off or just two singles?

Yes, it's cheaper than buying two singles

A weird consequence of it is that if you're a student or young person you can't get a discount on returns (unless on U1/2/5 where tap on tap off applies it) but can on other types of ticket

 

[philthetube]

Have coaches always sold singles not returns?

National express certainly sold returns in the mid 80's as a driver I used to push them to increase commission

 

[johncrossley]

National Express coaches based their fare structure on trains so returns were not much more expensive than singles. In other words, singles were artificially expensive. They launched "Boomerang" return fares in the 80s, where you got a return for the price of a single from Monday to Thursday. National Express started to offer "Funfares" from £1 single around the same time as the launch of Megabus, but if you were travelling on a route that didn't have Megabus competition you still had the old style fare structure.

 

[urbophile]

Many years ago I remember buying return tickets on the bus from our home village to the nearest town. There was only one route and one bus company involved, and unless you got a lift back home from somebody, or caught a train instead, a return ticket made sense. But in an urban area with many routes (and at present many competing companies) it's usually better not to be constrained to just one of them to get home. And if you travel into a large city you might well travel around a bit first and return from a different point.

Anyway isn't it all going to change when contactless/Oyster style cards become generally accepted?

 

[Porty]

Stagecoach East Scotland's DayRiders are very good value, but incredibly confusing for non-regulars. So much time is taken at Leuchars rail station asking tourists if they're coming back the same day, explaining what a North East Fife DayRider is and explaining why they can't have a return like on the train. Not ideal when a lot of visitors don't speak English as a first language. Where tap-on-tap-off isn't available, much better fares information is needed at busy bus stops to reduce user friction and dwell times. In this case as well, time could be saved if booking a rail ticket to Leuchars showed a section asking "how about St Andrews Bus instead?".

According to brfares.com you can purchase a rail ticket through to St Andrews bus (via Leuchars). However whether that destination appears on ticket machines at stations is a moot point. Haven't looked.

 

[johncrossley]

This Facebook video from Bluestar says to help speed up travel and boarding the bus, return tickets will no longer be available.

6.3K views · 33 reactions | Do you travel in the Southampton Zone? Single fares have changed – watch this video to find out how the end of the Government’s £2 single fare cap will affect you. You can read the full story here and learn how you can m

Do you travel in the Southampton Zone? Single fares have changed – watch this video to find out how the end of the Government’s £2 single fare cap will affect you. You can read the full story here...

www.facebook.com

 

[MedwayValiant]

According to that video, a single will be £2.50 and a day ticket will be £4.30. That actually could speed up boarding, since anyone who wanted what would hitherto have been a return will now need a day ticlet. No longer will the passenger need to try and describe the precise location of a stop whose name he doesn't know, in case there's a point to point return available for £4.25.

No such luck in my area though, where a day ticket is £7.10. We all know how slow Ticketer machines are, so wouldn't it actually make sense for the operator to offer £6 return tickets to go with £3 singles? That doesn't save the passenger any money, but it saves a few inches of paper and a few seconds of Ticketer machine time.

I don't know whether there is a technology problem with machine reading return tickets, but if there is then we go all low-tech. Passengers boards the first bus, and pays £6 for a return ticket. Passengers boards the return bus, and hands the ticket back to the driver. (Or in areas where in-journey ticket inspections exist - they don't around here - driver tears the ticket in half.)

 

[kkong]

Have coaches always sold singles not returns?

Citylink sell Day Return and Period Return tickets for journeys within Scotland.

 

[ChrisC]

No such luck in my area though, where a day ticket is £7.10. We all know how slow Ticketer machines are, so wouldn't it actually make sense for the operator to offer £6 return tickets to go with £3 singles? That doesn't save the passenger any money, but it saves a few inches of paper and a few seconds of Ticketer machine time.

It’s even worse where I live as the only day ticket is now £9.50 and that only covers travel on one bus company. Two years ago before the introduction of the £2 cap the day ticket was £7.90 so that’s quite a rise during that time. I’m pleased that I have recently got an ENCTS pass although the £3 single fare cap will still be good value for if I want to travel before 0930, especially as my first bus after that time is not until 1012.

 

[Ianigsy]

I’ve just checked Connexions for the X52 to Harrogate, and while they aren’t my favourite operator, they’ve capped the single fare for journeys involving North Yorkshire and the City of York at £2.50 single and £4.50 return. Very fair in my opinion as it takes the Otley-Harrogate return to where it was just before Covid and recognises that the majority of their paying passengers are going from home into Harrogate or York and back again.