Bus operator owned and managed bus stations

[Robertj21a]

The post title says England and Wales



Metro is quite strict on running the bus stations which they own. The only one they don't run is Wakefield.


Definitely a strange agreement.


Can you board or alight inside the depot building?

Yes, you can board inside Belper depot.

 

[Pat1105]

Having been to a few bus operator ran bus stations, the quality seemed very poor and I wanted to see is that was across the board with bus operator ran stations.

I seem to find that local authority bus stations seem to be very poor. Those that are owned privately (e.g by shopping centres) I tend to find are better.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I seem to find that local authority bus stations seem to be very poor. Those that are owned privately (e.g by shopping centres) I tend to find are better.

Local authorities have naff all money to spend on the upkeep of bus stations, with the exception of perhaps Lancashire CC and Nottingham CC.

Ones owned by shopping centres.... it would reflect badly if it was some shoddy, knackered entrance to the marbled halls of a shopping centre so they spend the money even if they're a bit basic at times (like the White Rose in Leeds.

Some of the PTEs have some ridiculously over-specified facilities though. Cleckheaton was mentioned as poor one that was subsequently rebuilt but West Yorkshire has a few ostentatious ones (e.g. Ossett, Brighouse). Seems the financial realities of day don't apply to PTEs at times.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I seem to find that local authority bus stations seem to be very poor. Those that are owned privately (e.g by shopping centres) I tend to find are better.

It varies massively. West Yorkshire's bus stations are all local authority owned (except Wakefield) and are all fantastic. You certainly wouldn't see a bus station like Cleckheaton or Ossett in a town the size of Cleckheaton or Ossett anywhere else in the country.

Shopping centre bus stations are also a mixed bag. When they form part of a planning agreement they can be good (new Eldon Square). But if not they can be exceptionally grotty (old Eldon Square, Chatham Pentagon, Aylesbury) or an afterthought stuck at the end of the car park (Crystal Peaks, White Rose).

 

[Mwanesh]

Phil Anslow are only permitted to use three out of nine stands I think. They have to board/alight passengers in those stands regardless if Stagecoach are occupying them. They can’t use any other stand that’s free. This is what causes a lot of congestion in the bus station, as Phil Anslow have to keep driving round until the stand is free.

Stagecoach dont use any Phil Anslow stands under any circumstances. Phil Anslow cant park on any Stagecoach stands either.

 

[richw]

Camborne and St Ives Bus Stations are owned and ran by First I think.

As are Truro Penzance and St Austell.

(I believe some may be Very long term leases rather than owned)

Likewise Newquay is owned by Cornwall council on lease and now managed By go ahead

 

[Andyh82]

It varies massively. West Yorkshire's bus stations are all local authority owned (except Wakefield) and are all fantastic. You certainly wouldn't see a bus station like Cleckheaton or Ossett in a town the size of Cleckheaton or Ossett anywhere else in the country.

Shopping centre bus stations are also a mixed bag. When they form part of a planning agreement they can be good (new Eldon Square). But if not they can be exceptionally grotty (old Eldon Square, Chatham Pentagon, Aylesbury) or an afterthought stuck at the end of the car park (Crystal Peaks, White Rose).

I’m not sure Trafford Centre is that impressive either, and Cribbs Causeway certainly isn’t.

If you talking big over the top bus stations, Accrington is another one

 

[markymark2000]

All I will say is go to Crewe and compare it to Newcastle Under Lyme. Crewe is owned and ran by Arriva. Newcastle Under Lyme ran by LAs. Newcastle-U-L is by no means fantastic but it's functional and it's tidy. Crewe is rarely (if ever) cleaned with the rubbish just flying about.

There are good and bad on both sides but I would say overall, bus operator owned bus stations are in poor state of repair and not very passenger friendly. Maybe I have just been to more bad bus operator owned and more good PTE/LA ran bus stations. I do live in the North West which is generally quite good at bus stations.
Looking on Google Maps, some of the other bus operator owned stations aren't in amazing states.

LAs might not have much money but normally bus stations are done as part of the normal town/city street cleaning.


Andyh82, the trafford centre is alright for passenger comfort and general cleanliness but no RTI displays is really annoying and hot helpful. Plus the fact the majority of buses are the other end of the station.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

All I will say is go to Crewe and compare it to Newcastle Under Lyme. Crewe is owned and ran by Arriva. Newcastle Under Lyme ran by LAs. Newcastle-U-L is by no means fantastic but it's functional and it's tidy. Crewe is rarely (if ever) cleaned with the rubbish just flying about.

There are good and bad on both sides but I would say overall, bus operator owned bus stations are in poor state of repair and not very passenger friendly. Maybe I have just been to more bad bus operator owned and more good PTE/LA ran bus stations. I do live in the North West which is generally quite good at bus stations.
Looking on Google Maps, some of the other bus operator owned stations aren't in amazing states.

LAs might not have much money but normally bus stations are done as part of the normal town/city street cleaning.


Andyh82, the trafford centre is alright for passenger comfort and general cleanliness but no RTI displays is really annoying and hot helpful. Plus the fact the majority of buses are the other end of the station.

Crewe is an outlier. No investment as it’s been scheduled for demolition for the last 20 years and no real Arriva presence since the depot closed.

Many LA bus stations are little more than a shabby collection of bus shelters -Lancs and Notts are very much exceptions. Durham CC have a nice line in Soviet austerity chic for some of there locations like Stanley!

 

[cnjb8]

Is Belper bus station/depot owned by Trent?

You beat me to it!

Can you board or alight inside the depot building?

Yes you can, only the sixes fleet is based at the back of the bus station as it is regarded as an outstation of Derby. It used to have an access point round the back so buses could park at night but the Solars don't fit so this isn't used. It's very tight in there so NatEx stop outside (if the service wasn't withdrawn, I can't remember) and the sixes, 71, 72 and TransPeak are the only other routes to serve it.

I believe Nottingham Victoria Bus Station is owned by Intu or Nottingham City Council but managed by TrentBarton. Yourbus used to run some services there but changed to Broadmarsh and Stagecoach use Victoria for their Sherwood Arrow and Pronto.
I'm sure I've made a mistake somewhere here but this is what I know!

 

[johnnychips]

Can you board or alight inside the depot building [at Belper]?

Yes, you can. In the evening it closes so you use the street.

i think the NatEx from Buxton to London has been withdrawn.

 

[RustySpoons]

IIRC, they oddly used to manage Chorley bus station. Do they also manage Accrington and Nelson?

LCC manage Nelson. Transdev wanted to replace the defunct departure displays with their own at their own expense, similar to the set up they have at Burnley showing departures for all operators. Council said no. So they've been turned off for the past 4 years so are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

The mind boggles!

 

[Alex365Dash]

Fareham Bus Station is owned by Fareham Borough Council and managed by First.

 

[aliceh]

Until its recent closure, Lymington bus station was owned and operated by Go South Coast

 

[NorthernSpirit]

...some areas allow bus operators to put their own styling on timetables for example WY Metro allowing Transdev to put their Transdev branded stuff at their stands in bus stations.

Keighley is Metro isn't it? Metro is normally strict on running their own bus stations.

I believe that Metro (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) have relaxed the branding in their bus stations to make it look a little less generic e.g. Huddersfield which sees one First Huddersfield branded timetable case and Leeds which sees a mixture of LeedsCity from First, Transdev and Arriva branded cases alongside the generic Metro versions. Otley is owned by The Orchard Centre to which the site is bolted on to but is part managed by First who have someone employed as banksman. Otley Town Council is involved with the provision of a departure screen in the nearby town council offices.

I've suggested to Metro (on a few occations) that they could always sell off Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Huddersfield and Todmorden bus stations to First and Cleckheaton, Heckmondwike, Dewsbury, Pudsey, Hemsworth and South Elmsall bus stations to Arriva, whilst retaining Leeds, Seacroft, Wetherby, Brighouse and Holmfirth. Cash rasied during the sale can be put towards more bus and rail projects.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe that Metro (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) have relaxed the branding in their bus stations to make it look a little less generic e.g. Huddersfield which sees one First Huddersfield branded timetable case and Leeds which sees a mixture of LeedsCity from First, Transdev and Arriva branded cases alongside the generic Metro versions. Otley is owned by The Orchard Centre to which the site is bolted on to but is part managed by First who have someone employed as banksman. Otley Town Council is involved with the provision of a departure screen in the nearby town council offices.

I've suggested to Metro (on a few occations) that they could always sell off Bradford Interchange, Halifax, Huddersfield and Todmorden bus stations to First and Cleckheaton, Heckmondwike, Dewsbury, Pudsey, Hemsworth and South Elmsall bus stations to Arriva, whilst retaining Leeds, Seacroft, Wetherby, Brighouse and Holmfirth. Cash rasied during the sale can be put towards more bus and rail projects.

I'm sorry but why would First or Arriva want to buy the bus stations??? Given that most operators have been offloading bus stations because they're an overhead (or an asset to be sold and redeveloped)???

 

[Man of Kent]

I believe Basildon is owned by the owners of the Eastgate shopping centre, of which it is part, not Basildon Council - albeit leased to and managed by First.

Basildon Council, according to First

https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/node_images/essex/Basildon-Bus-Station-Conditions-Of-Use.pdf

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Until its recent closure, Lymington bus station was owned and operated by Go South Coast

Not that recent; It closed in May 2015. One of a number of W&D locations that Go Ahead closed and sold - most notably Salisbury (but also Amesbury).

Dover has never been described as a bus station (and is not subject to the Competition order).

I've seen Dover appear as such on maps but not in timetable listings. It all goes back to the slightly subjective view of "what actually is a bus station"? Dover is arguably more a bus station with more facilities yet isn't described as such. Holmfirth is a bus station yet it's four bus shelters on a road around a car park. Monmouth is a solitary bus shelter on a turning circle

Mention of Crewe got me thinking. It's been left to decay over the last 35 years as its allegedly a prime site for redevelopment so little money has been spent on it (aside from a cursory splash of Arriva aqua, and this neglect has been exacerbated since Arriva closed the depot and centralised operations in Winsford.

However, there are two other bus stations that are also in the "awaiting redevelopment" torpor. Lewes bus station looks no different now as to when Stagecoach had it. I assume they flogged it to some property firm who are sitting on it as an asset? Winchester was also sold I believe but whoever owns it has spent some money on demolishing the old depot buildings and a bit of concrete etc to smarten the place up.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Local authorities have naff all money to spend on the upkeep of bus stations, with the exception of perhaps Lancashire CC and Nottingham CC.

Ones owned by shopping centres.... it would reflect badly if it was some shoddy, knackered entrance to the marbled halls of a shopping centre so they spend the money even if they're a bit basic at times (like the White Rose in Leeds. Some of the PTEs have some ridiculously over-specified facilities though. Cleckheaton was mentioned as poor one that was subsequently rebuilt but West Yorkshire has a few ostentatious ones (e.g. Ossett, Brighouse). Seems the financial realities of day don't apply to PTEs at times.

This is why Halifax bus station shouldn't be replaced as the current one has nothing wrong with it. Yet Metro are wanting to waste cash on rebuilding it, I don't see the point and I don't think that they are too happy at my idea of simply selling it off to a housing contractor to build houses on the current site, whilst extra bus stops are added to the Wards End / Commercial Street part of the town.

When Brighouse got rebuilt twelve years back, the temporary bus station was a mere four bus shelters stuck at the bottom Gooder Street car park, back then the four temporary (should have been permement) shelters had more facilities than what there is now - the shop has been closed for as long as I can remember and the LCD screen next to it last worked in 2010. There's litter and even a small Yorkshire flag stuck in the bird deterants that are stuck on top of the screens. Even the night stands N1 and N2 that were used by buses after 6pm (hence why there is that open bit in the middle) were removed around four years later and relaced by emergency exit gates.

Some of West Yorkshire's bus stations seem to be mismanaged. South Yorkshire's seems the same but one thing for certain is why didn't SYPTE sell off their bus stations to the operators considering that the travel information centres's were shut and reduced to the on site security gestapo having to provide travel information as well as providing security and probably even cleaning the bogs whilst the old TIC's are just left decaying (e.g. Sheffield Interchange).

It all goes back to the slightly subjective view of "what actually is a bus station"? Holmfirth is a bus station yet it's four bus shelters on a road around a car park.

The toilet facilities at Holmfirth are owned by Holme Valley Parish Council.

 

[MotCO]

Sevenoaks Bus Station is run by Go-Coach - is this the smallest company to run a bus station? It is painted in its yellow and purple corporate colours. It also runs the travel office and (I think) the coffee shop.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some of West Yorkshire's bus stations seem to be mismanaged. South Yorkshire's seems the same but one thing for certain is why didn't SYPTE sell off their bus stations to the operators considering that the travel information centres's were shut and reduced to the on site security gestapo having to provide travel information as well as providing security and probably even cleaning the bogs whilst the old TIC's are just left decaying (e.g. Sheffield Interchange).

I'll ask the question again - why would any bus operator (First or Stagecoach or Arriva) want to buy any bus station?

 

[cainebj]

Stagecoach
Owned + Managed: Aldershot, Canterbury, Carlisle, Chichester, Exeter (for the time being), Folkestone, Paignton, Workington
Managed:

Carlisle bus station is part of the Earls Lane shopping arcade development, leased/managed by Stagecoach.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I'm sorry but why would First or Arriva want to buy the bus stations??? Given that most operators have been offloading bus stations because they're an overhead (or an asset to be sold and redeveloped)???

You've answered your own question there, Metro sells the bus stations (with a clause) to the operators who can then redevelop the site - some may wish to retain the bus station as is and slap their branding all over it if they wanted to they could sell it back to Metro who would then own it and the on site day to day management is the operator. Some may wish to sell it on for houses however the clause would have to include the wordings of "should the operator wishes to sell the bus station on for other purposes, then the Combined Authorty would be required to be notified so that addtional bus stops can be allocated near to the site of the old bus station". Either way its quids in for both Metro and the operator.

 

[MotCO]

I'll ask the question again - why would any bus operator (First or Stagecoach or Arriva) want to buy any bus station?

Go-Coach took over Sevenoaks Bus Station because Arriva wanted to give it up and Go-Coach saw the benefits of having a properly managed facility (e.g. advice to perspective passengers).

 

[RustySpoons]

You've answered your own question there, Metro sells the bus stations (with a clause) to the operators who can then redevelop the site - some may wish to retain the bus station as is and slap their branding all over it if they wanted to they could sell it back to Metro who would then own it and the on site day to day management is the operator. Some may wish to sell it on for houses however the clause would have to include the wordings of "should the operator wishes to sell the bus station on for other purposes, then the Combined Authorty would be required to be notified so that addtional bus stops can be allocated near to the site of the old bus station". Either way its quids in for both Metro and the operator.

They can put their branding in the station just by managing it, they don't need to own it. Transdev have done this in Burnley. Each of their stands has their own branding, the cleaners and maintenance staff at the bus station all wear Transdev branded uniforms and Transdev have their own information booth. It's as good as owning it without all the extra expense.

Obviously the local authority/whoever will need to agree, look at Nelson Bus Station just down the road where the council for some reason WON'T let Transdev look after it and it's a miserable place in comparison.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You've answered your own question there, Metro sells the bus stations (with a clause) to the operators who can then redevelop the site - some may wish to retain the bus station as is and slap their branding all over it if they wanted to they could sell it back to Metro who would then own it and the on site day to day management is the operator. Some may wish to sell it on for houses however the clause would have to include the wordings of "should the operator wishes to sell the bus station on for other purposes, then the Combined Authorty would be required to be notified so that addtional bus stops can be allocated near to the site of the old bus station". Either way its quids in for both Metro and the operator.

Sorry but that doesn't make sense. It really doesn't.

No operator is going to spend millions on buying a site from Metro or any other PTE to redevelop it. Bus companies run buses - they are not property developers. Have you not realised that bus companies have been selling sites for the last 30+ years, usually to property firms who then develop them. They will not want to spend precious money on a site to simply operate, and if it's to simply sell on, then that causes it own problems. Simply would not happen.

If Metro wished to sell their prime sites, they could do so directly. Options would be

• Outright disposal - they could simply not bother with a site and selling it for redevelopment to a property firm for whatever use
• Sale and Leaseback - usually to someone like a pension fund and then lease it back. However, that would create an issue in that Metro would have to pay the lease but can't rely on the operators income (as they are free to use roadside stops)

There are reasons why Metro don't do it and that's because it's not quids in.

Perhaps also important to recognise that Metro have clearly adopted a policy of improving bus stations over the last 30 years. They clearly have a view that these are important and need to be invested in and won't simply sell them off. The old Batley bus station was described as derelict by another poster and I can't think of a better description. I can remember some of the other lesser locations like Ossett, Hemsworth and Brighouse and what they were like before redevelopment - they are rather ostentatious but clearly Metro believe that they are worth the investment.

Of the key hubs, Halifax is perhaps the worst in terms of passenger comfort and location.

 

[route101]

Kilmarnock and Ayr , owned by Stagecoach by the looks of it

 

[aliceh]

Not that recent; It closed in May 2015. One of a number of W&D locations that Go Ahead closed and sold - most notably Salisbury (but also Amesbury).

That long ago? Time is weird

 

[Andyh82]

I believe that Metro (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) have relaxed the branding in their bus stations to make it look a little less generic e.g. Huddersfield which sees one First Huddersfield branded timetable case and Leeds which sees a mixture of LeedsCity from First, Transdev and Arriva branded cases alongside the generic Metro versions.

Transdev convinced Metro to allow them to brand the bus stands they use and then later First and Arriva got in on the act in a limited way

Notice though that the First/Leeds City timetable cases now have standard Metro timetables back in them, because like many things First do, they got bored after one iteration

 

[markymark2000]

Yes you can, only the sixes fleet is based at the back of the bus station as it is regarded as an outstation of Derby. It used to have an access point round the back so buses could park at night but the Solars don't fit so this isn't used. It's very tight in there so NatEx stop outside (if the service wasn't withdrawn, I can't remember) and the sixes, 71, 72 and TransPeak are the only other routes to serve it.

Oh, cool. I thought buses stopped on the outside.

I believe that Metro (West Yorkshire Combined Authority) have relaxed the branding in their bus stations to make it look a little less generic e.g. Huddersfield which sees one First Huddersfield branded timetable case and Leeds which sees a mixture of LeedsCity from First, Transdev and Arriva branded cases alongside the generic Metro versions. Otley is owned by The Orchard Centre to which the site is bolted on to but is part managed by First who have someone employed as banksman. Otley Town Council is involved with the provision of a departure screen in the nearby town council offices.

Transdev convinced Metro to allow them to brand the bus stands they use and then later First and Arriva got in on the act in a limited way

Notice though that the First/Leeds City timetable cases now have standard Metro timetables back in them, because like many things First do, they got bored after one iteration

While Metro have reduced their branding, when they own a bus station, they normally like to run it. The branding on the timetable cases is technically helpful to passengers and might help reduce a few queries to staff. With most buses going different ways from the bus stations, there will be no competition complaints.