Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Mikey C]

Passengers will often complain the bus is overcrowded if there are any more than a handful of standees. On the other hand, the thing worse than standing on an overcrowded bus is being left behind by a bus with space for more people. The company might think if there are fewer passengers than the plated capacity then everyone got on, but in reality it is difficult to fit the plated number of standees on many buses, and drivers will often stop picking up new passengers without making much or any effort to get people to move down the bus.

In either case, the best solution is a bigger bus.

Being at the back of a crowded single door bus is horrible though. There's a reason why buses in London and in nearly all of Europe have 2 (or even 3) doors.

 

[MCR247]

Being at the back of a crowded single door bus is horrible though. There's a reason why buses in London and in nearly all of Europe have 2 (or even 3) doors.

To be fair I’m not sure you’d have room for 2 doors as well as the kind of wheelchair/buggy spaces required these days! Although I guess you could go single leaf at the front like some of Europe do

 

[londonteacher]

To be fair I’m not sure you’d have room for 2 doors as well as the kind of wheelchair/buggy spaces required these days! Although I guess you could go single leaf at the front like some of Europe do

Why? London does and meets the requirements.

 

[MCR247]

Why? London does and meets the requirements.

The ZEBRA2 bids required operators to go for an ‘expanded space’ or something with both a wheelchair and separate buggy space iirc

 

[Snow1964]

The ZEBRA2 bids required operators to go for an ‘expanded space’ or something with both a wheelchair and separate buggy space iirc

Most operators make this a dual role area and fit tip up seats (although in London there are no tip up seats).

In UK double deck buses are quite common, although there are surveys (sorry can't find link at moment) that say 30-35% can't or won't ever go upstairs, and from memory it's 12% can't or won't even use a seat with single step.

Generally speaking stairs take up space of 6-8 seats downstairs (it has gone up where square corner landings have replaced winder triangular steps). Putting all this together there are some double deck buses that only have a handful of no step (fixed, not tip up) seats.

So the plated capacity, and the practical capacity (especially as some services have disproportionate number of older or infirm passengers compared to population as a whole) rather muddles the intention of the expansion of wheelchair and buggy space.

 

[MCR247]

Most operators make this a dual role area and fit tip up seats (although in London there are no tip up seats).

In UK double deck buses are quite common, although there are surveys (sorry can't find link at moment) that say 30-35% can't or won't ever go upstairs, and from memory it's 12% can't or won't even use a seat with single step.

Generally speaking stairs take up space of 6-8 seats downstairs (it has gone up where square corner landings have replaced winder triangular steps). Putting all this together there are some double deck buses that only have a handful of no step (fixed, not tip up) seats.

So the plated capacity, and the practical capacity (especially as some services have disproportionate number of older or infirm passengers compared to population as a whole) rather muddles the intention of the expansion of wheelchair and buggy space.

From my understanding the dual purpose area is ‘out’ with one side now having a wheelchair space with no tip ups and the other side having a slightly longer buggy bay. Example

 

[Goldfish62]

Being at the back of a crowded single door bus is horrible though. There's a reason why buses in London and in nearly all of Europe have 2 (or even 3) doors.

That those new triaxle Volvo double decks for Uno have just one door is pretty nuts.

 

[joieman]

That those new triaxle Volvo double decks for Uno have just one door is pretty nuts.

IIRC Notts+Derby's former B7L Nordics also had only one passenger door.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

IIRC Notts+Derby's former B7L Nordics also had only one passenger door.

As did their successors with First, the e500s, and the B8Ls that Sanders in Norfolk also received.

This must be the hoariest of old chestnuts - the issue of multiple doors on vehicles. Cue three pages of discussion on dwell times, bus station design, observations of different countries, etc....

 

[Goldfish62]

As did their successors with First, the e500s, and the B8Ls that Sanders in Norfolk also received.

This must be the hoariest of old chestnuts - the issue of multiple doors on vehicles. Cue three pages of discussion on dwell times, bus station design, observations of different countries, etc....

It's really not the hoariest of old chestnuts when you consider the UK (except London) is basically in a minority of one.

 

[kevjs]

Most operators make this a dual role area and fit tip up seats (although in London there are no tip up seats).

In UK double deck buses are quite common, although there are surveys (sorry can't find link at moment) that say 30-35% can't or won't ever go upstairs, and from memory it's 12% can't or won't even use a seat with single step.

Generally speaking stairs take up space of 6-8 seats downstairs (it has gone up where square corner landings have replaced winder triangular steps). Putting all this together there are some double deck buses that only have a handful of no step (fixed, not tip up) seats.

So the plated capacity, and the practical capacity (especially as some services have disproportionate number of older or infirm passengers compared to population as a whole) rather muddles the intention of the expansion of wheelchair and buggy space.

Nottingham City Transports Yutong E10s have about 4 non-tip up seats which can be accessed without using steps.

By the time you've added the wheels, buggy bay, and wheelchair bay mini-buses don't really have any spaces for seats left anymore - and those they do have (on the E10) have even less legroom than the inadequate space on the Solo SR's.

 

[MCR247]

Nottingham City Transports Yutong E10s have about 4 non-tip up seats which can be accessed without using steps.

By the time you've added the wheels, buggy bay, and wheelchair bay mini-buses don't really have any spaces for seats left anymore - and those they do have (on the E10) have even less legroom than the inadequate space on the Solo SR's.


View attachment 167583

Am I right in saying this type of interior was required as a part of ZEBRA/2?

 

[Volvodart]

Wrightbus snaps up bus repair firm as it pushes for global recognition

Wrightbus snaps up bus repair firm as it pushes for global recognition

The chief executive of Wrightbus has vowed to make it a name known “across the globe” as it announced the acquisition of a bus refurbishment firm.

m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

Margaret Canning
Yesterday at 16:13
The chief executive of Wrightbus has vowed to make it a name known “across the globe” as it announced the acquisition of a bus refurbishment firm.
Wrightbus in Ballymena said it had bought RGI in the Midlands of England as part of a push into bus refurbishment and repair.

The company said it’s the latest development in a “stellar year” after announcing a record, £500m deal with bus operator Go-Ahead last month.

It said that the buy-out of RGI Bus and Coach Refurbishment reflects its commitment to expansion.

The deal means Wrightbus and its subsidiary NewPower can offer refurbishment services from upholstery to metalwork.

Wrightbus CEO Jean-Marc Gales said the company was bolstering its global credentials. “The growth of this company is entirely dependent on our incredible staff delivering world-leading products and services.

"We want to ensure the Wrightbus name is known not just in the UK and Ireland but all across the globe.

“We are already selling buses across the UK and into Germany and Asia, and we want to ensure that we have services to maintain the entire life-cycle of the bus.”

The deal, signed at the end of last month, includes RGI’s facilities in Southam and secures the employment of 13 members of staff. And Ross Cleaver, the owner of RGI, joins Wrightbus as head of repair and refurbishment UK.

Mr Cleaver, a former West Midlands police officer who set the business up in 2016, said he was excited at the new challenge.

“I have been following the incredible trajectory of Wrightbus since it was taken out of administration in 2019 and it’s clear that this is only just the beginning. I wanted to be a part of that continued success and so this deal was a no-brainer.
Ever since I started RGI, our customers have been paramount. These same ethics and approach are shared by Wrightbus and I’m delighted to be involved in taking it to the next level.”

Mr Gales added: “We extend a very warm welcome to Ross and his team and we know that their experience and skillset will be enormously valuable to us and our customers.

“While zero-emission buses clearly offer instant decarbonisation, the continued use and re-use of existing fleets is equally important for the circular economy.”

 

[dmncf]

Am I right in saying this type of interior was required as a part of ZEBRA/2?

The ZEBRA 2 webpage (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...us-funding-zebra-2#accessibility-requirements) states that vehicles are required to "provide an additional flexible space in addition to the mandatory wheelchair space – this space can either be suitable for a second wheelchair user or at least 2 unfolded pushchairs or prams".

 

[Volvodart]

What are the rumoured prices? The average price per bus based on 1,200 works out at £416k, which itself is around 15-20% lower than the prevailing price for EVs (c£0.5m) and appears to be in line with what BYD are quoting for the BD11.

This is just slightly less than the price per bus for the First Aberdeen order announcement today, if the repowered buses come at around £200K each I seem to remember. It is also not THAT much more than they would have had to pay if they had received SCOTZEB2 funding if this was based on the old prices.

 

[Edvid]

Go-Ahead's seed E400EV has turned up in group corporate (navy) blue. Picture courtesy of Tony Hunter.

Friends of the PSV Circle | Go-Ahead's Alexander Dennis demo GA74 ZEB | Facebook

Go-Ahead's Alexander Dennis demo GA74 ZEB

www.facebook.com

 

[Volvodart]

Wrightbus will utilise Cummins power in its StreetDeck Ultroliner diesel double-decker for the first time in a next-generation variant of that model.

Wrightbus StreetDeck Ultroliner next-gen to get Cummins power - routeone

Wrightbus will utilise Cummins power in its StreetDeck Ultroliner diesel double-decker in a next-generation variant of that model.

www.route-one.net

Those vehicles will be powered by the six-cylinder B6.7 engine rated at 250bhp or 300bhp, driving through the Voith DIWA.8 seven-speed automatic gearbox. Such an approach will further reduce emissions, and the new model will be Ultra-Low Emission Bus accredited by Zemo Partnership, the manufacturer says.

The existing StreetDeck Ultroliner, which is powered by the Daimler OM 934 four-cylinder engine, will continue to be available. The first Cummins-powered examples are to be supplied to Isle of Man operator Bus Vannin.

Notably, Wrightbus says that using the latest Cummins engine platform opens the latest-generation StreetDeck Ultroliner to potential repower with a hydrogen combustion engine from the same manufacturer mid-life. Cummins previously showed an example of its hydrogen-powered B6.7H unit.

 

[Mikey C]

An interesting decision. I assume that's a similar engine to the E400MMC.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Wrightbus will utilise Cummins power in its StreetDeck Ultroliner diesel double-decker for the first time in a next-generation variant of that model.

Wrightbus StreetDeck Ultroliner next-gen to get Cummins power - routeone

Wrightbus will utilise Cummins power in its StreetDeck Ultroliner diesel double-decker in a next-generation variant of that model.

www.route-one.net

Interesting - I wonder if operators had requested this. Also, I wonder whether it might stimulate further diesel orders.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Wrightbus will utilise Cummins power in its StreetDeck Ultroliner diesel double-decker for the first time in a next-generation variant of that model.

Wrightbus StreetDeck Ultroliner next-gen to get Cummins power - routeone

Wrightbus will utilise Cummins power in its StreetDeck Ultroliner diesel double-decker in a next-generation variant of that model.

www.route-one.net

I thought the Streetdeck was already available with the 6 cylinder, 7.7l Daimler engine

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

An interesting decision. I assume that's a similar engine to the E400MMC.

The same engine but with voiths new transmission

I thought the Streetdeck was already available with the 6 cylinder, 7.7l Daimler engine

they have been built with it..

 

[joieman]

The same engine but with voiths new transmission

they have been built with it..

But apart from a sole example for Go North East, the only other ones to date are a handful for Bus Vannin. Most other companies still seem to be enamoured with the E400MMC about a decade on!

 

[37114]

But apart from a sole example for Go North East, the only other ones to date are a handful for Bus Vannin. Most other companies still seem to be enamoured with the E400MMC about a decade on!

Maybe that is why Wright's are now offering the Cummins option if buyers haven't been enamoured with the existing Streetdeck engine..

 

[CBlue]

Given how long Cummins engines have been used in the UK now, and how widespread their use is especially in bus fleets, I imagine the support network for them is far better than for Daimler-Benz.

The Streetlite was also available with a Cummins engine iirc

 

[joieman]

And it appears that Wrightbus may have dropped the Mercedes-Benz OM936 engine option for the Streetdeck Ultroliner, as it isn't listed among the engine options on the model's updated web page.

Hybrid Diesel Vehicles: Wrightbus EU6 Diesel Bus Ultroliner

Know the Features, Benefits & Technical Specifications of our diesel vehicle - EU6 Diesel Bus. This micro hybrid diesel bus has single or twin door option.

wrightbus.com

ENGINE
Cummins ISB 6.7 litre 6-cylinder Euro VI or Daimler OM934 5.1 litre 4-cylinder Euro VI

 

[citybus2500]

And it appears that Wrightbus may have dropped the Mercedes-Benz OM936 engine option for the Streetdeck Ultroliner, as it isn't listed among the engine options on the model's updated web page.

Hybrid Diesel Vehicles: Wrightbus EU6 Diesel Bus Ultroliner

Know the Features, Benefits & Technical Specifications of our diesel vehicle - EU6 Diesel Bus. This micro hybrid diesel bus has single or twin door option.

wrightbus.com

Indeed. They recently lost an order as they wouldn't/couldn't supply the larger Daimler engine.

 

[jeffery9098]

Indeed. They recently lost an order as they wouldn't/couldn't supply the larger Daimler engine.

what was the order that was lost?

 

[Voyager 2953]

But apart from a sole example for Go North East, the only other ones to date are a handful for Bus Vannin. Most other companies still seem to be enamoured with the E400MMC about a decade on!

It is my understanding that there are already orders for this new Streetdeck and I expect GNE to be in recipient of a trial vehicle for the X10. It’s about time; from an operational point of view the Gemini is a better body than the MMC; the engine has let it down.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I just hope that the new drivetrain that's coming with this doesn't treat the passengers to what is effectively the equivalent of a high-speed spin cycle in a washing machine, as is true with the Cummins product found on a lot of the ADL stuff doing longer, distance or motorway work. If anyone isn't quite sure what I mean, then try a trip out of Edinburgh on the 253 borders buses route among others

 

[Snex]

Unless I'm missing something surely this new version of the the Streetdeck is effectively just a modern version of the DB300's which Arriva have?

I thought the Streetdecks used parts from them anyway and it's the same engine.