Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Mikey C]

Just back from Falkirk and I can confirm that electric buses bound for London are being bodied there. I noticed two in the parking area that had reg no's applied to them, they are LG22AXS which is bound for Metroline with fleet number BDE2761 and LG72DNO, fleet no Ee70 which is for Go Ahead.

Thanks

I assume the level of double decker work at Scarborough will depend on how many coaches are being made there at the time?

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Thanks

I assume the level of double decker work at Scarborough will depend on how many coaches are being made there at the time?

The allocation of chassis to each plant doesn't seem to follow any particular pattern, it's difficult to work out which plant is the "lead" one on any type of body. For the past few years it has been possible to determine where a chassis was bodied by the reg no allocated to it. Other than the few buses that entered service in private plates or went overseas Falkirk built bodies would start with S and Scarborough with Y. However the bodies built on BYD chassis are all on L prefixes irrespective of the build factory.

I'll make some enquiries to try and find out what determines the choice of bodybuilder.

 

[MotCO]

Thanks

I assume the level of double decker work at Scarborough will depend on how many coaches are being made there at the time?

Is demand for new coaches as seasonal as it used to be? (Duple made coaches in Blackpool and Plaxton in Scarborough so that when the holiday season was in full swing the bodybuilder's employees could find work in the hotel sector, and when the tourists faded away, the employees went back to produce coaches ready for the next season.)

 

[Mikey C]

Is demand for new coaches as seasonal as it used to be? (Duple made coaches in Blackpool and Plaxton in Scarborough so that when the holiday season was in full swing the bodybuilder's employees could find work in the hotel sector, and when the tourists faded away, the employees went back to produce coaches ready for the next season.)

I imagine Covid had a very damaging effect on coach sales, especially to the operators doing coach tours previously popular with the elderly, whereas the National Express/Megabus type routes have recovered more quickly?

 

[Tom Gallacher]

Is demand for new coaches as seasonal as it used to be? (Duple made coaches in Blackpool and Plaxton in Scarborough so that when the holiday season was in full swing the bodybuilder's employees could find work in the hotel sector, and when the tourists faded away, the employees went back to produce coaches ready for the next season.)

Duple only started producing bodies in Blackpool when they bought out Burlingham in 1960. Bodies were then built at both this factory and their long standing one in Hendon until Hendon was closed in the early 70's. I don't think the opportunity for seasonal work was the motivating factor in deciding where a body was built - at least not for them.

 

[Whatshappin]

Scarborough is busy with the e500 berlin order and has been all this year, pretty much all you can see in their yard

 

[Abluhwleh]

Switch EiV 22 double-decker launched for Indian market - routeone

Switch Mobility has continued to make headway in the Indian market for battery-electric buses with the debut of the EiV 22 double-decker.

www.route-one.net

Switch Mobility has continued to make headway in the Indian market for battery-electric buses with the debut of the EiV 22 double-decker. It has been designed and developed in India and will also be manufactured there.

The air-conditioned, high-floor model has 231kW/h of energy storage. Switch claims that will give a range of up to 250km in city applications. Dual-connection charging is possible and the bus comes with a maximum seating capacity of 65. The OEM says that figure is almost double that of a single-decker to Indian specification, but that it comes with an increase in unladen weight of only 18%.

Front and rear doors, and staircases, are part of the specification. Switch already has an order for 200 EiV 22 buses in hand for Mumbai and it says the new model leaves it “looking at a dominant space in the electric double-decker segment across key regions in [India].”

The Optare Rapta makes a comeback after all these years!

 

[Mikey C]

Switch EiV 22 double-decker launched for Indian market - routeone

Switch Mobility has continued to make headway in the Indian market for battery-electric buses with the debut of the EiV 22 double-decker.

www.route-one.net

The Optare Rapta makes a comeback after all these years!

An interesting design, with 2 staircases and 2 doors, one at the back behind the rear wheels

 

[MotCO]

An interesting design, with 2 staircases and 2 doors, one at the back behind the rear wheels

Can we call it a Rushimaster or a Trussmaster?

 

[Snow1964]

An interesting design, with 2 staircases and 2 doors, one at the back behind the rear wheels

Fairly large side windows, and being only 9.8m looks very short compared to UK buses. Also quite narrow doors, and it doesn’t appear to be low floor

Switch Mobility unveils country’s first electric double-decker air-conditioned bus

It is powered by a 231 kWh capacity battery pack and allows the bus to have a range up to 250 kms for intra-city transport

www.thehindubusinessline.com

 

[ClydeCoaster]

Alexander Dennis confirms that they're launching their own in-house range of zero emission buses, specifically a small bus and a double decker, alongside the BYD partnership, and hints at their new design.

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

⚡ We're expanding our zero-emission bus portfolio with new electric buses fully designed and integrated in-house at Alexander Dennis! A stunning new design language will give our new models unmistakable kerb appeal and will highlight their zero emission credentials, allowing you to make a bold statement that showcases your investment in clean transport. A new small bus and a new electric double decker will be available for delivery from late 2023.

The move brings our range of battery-electric buses in line with our long-established strategy of offering our own, integrated vehicles alongside buses built on selected partners’ chassis to ensure you have the widest range of solutions available to meet your individual requirements.

Buses for the United Kingdom and Ireland will be fully built in Britain. Internationally, the new platform will be tailored to the requirements of cities, transport authorities and bus companies in each territory, in line with our philosophy of providing the optimal solution for every market demand. The recently announced order for Enviro500EV electric double deckers in Hong Kong will be part of this new generation of zero emission buses.

The hugely successful battery electric BYD ADL Enviro200EV and BYD ADL Enviro400EV products built in partnership with BYD will continue to be offered in the UK, Ireland and New Zealand, giving you an unrivalled choice of solutions. Our second-generation hydrogen bus, the in-house integrated Enviro400FCEV, will also continue to form an important part of our zero-emission bus range and shares technology and key driveline components with the upcoming new battery-electric models.

#LeadingtheZEvolution #BuiltinBritain

 

[LOL The Irony]

Alexander Dennis confirms that they're launching their own in-house range of zero emission buses, specifically a small bus and a double decker, alongside the BYD partnership, and hints at their new design.

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

I'm guessing they made their in-house design by just taking their integral chassis and putting battery rafts and hub motors on it?

Edit: It also looks like we're getting an MMC facelift whilst they're at it.

 

[MotCO]

I'm guessing they made their in-house design by just taking their integral chassis and putting battery rafts and hub motors on it?

Edit: It also looks like we're getting an MMC facelift whilst they're at it.

Seems strange that they are keeping BYD chassis alongside their own - is this to meet contractual obligations to BYD?

 

[Blindtraveler]

They probably signed a framework agreement with them and and have to let it run its course and want it has it will be quietly dropped in favour of their own integral product. Which like everything else they build, facelifted or otherwise will no doubt rattle and creek and be a bit rubbish in my own personal opinion. What are the changes they appear to be making to the the bodywork? Sorry my eyesight does not allow me to see this.

 

[hst43102]

They probably signed a framework agreement with them and and have to let it run its course and want it has it will be quietly dropped in favour of their own integral product. Which like everything else they build, facelifted or otherwise will no doubt rattle and creek and be a bit rubbish in my own personal opinion. What are the changes they appear to be making to the the bodywork? Sorry my eyesight does not allow me to see this.

The link to the website has a preview image of the front panel of a bus, featuring a large black panel under the windscreen - similar to the E200MMC - alongside a new headlight unit and a panel that has triangular folds and creases. I think it looks quite promising, the MMC design is beginning to show its age!

 

[Goldfish62]

The link to the website has a preview image of the front panel of a bus, featuring a large black panel under the windscreen - similar to the E200MMC - alongside a new headlight unit and a panel that has triangular folds and creases. I think it looks quite promising, the MMC design is beginning to show its age!

Indeed, it's around eight years old now.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

Or this is making sure that any future issues with China don’t escalate into global sanctions against them causing ADL issues with getting parts for BYD chassis buses.

For the same reason I personally would not buy any Scania Fencers with Higer bodywork.

Just saying it’s a possibility, in these times absolutely anything is possible.

The link to the website has a preview image of the front panel of a bus, featuring a large black panel under the windscreen - similar to the E200MMC - alongside a new headlight unit and a panel that has triangular folds and creases. I think it looks quite promising, the MMC design is beginning to show its age!

Personally I think the current MMC design is fine. It’s more the way in which operators paint the buses which does not show of the bodywork's shape and design as well as it otherwise could.

They probably signed a framework agreement with them and and have to let it run its course and want it has it will be quietly dropped in favour of their own integral product. Which like everything else they build, facelifted or otherwise will no doubt rattle and creek and be a bit rubbish in my own personal opinion. What are the changes they appear to be making to the the bodywork? Sorry my eyesight does not allow me to see this.

I’m almost certain I would still rather drive an MCV-bodied Volvo BZL.

The Evolution 2 & Evora bodywork over the top of Volvos B8 chassis has been a delight to drive in the past.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Aug 2022 ==

Indeed, it's around eight years old now.

It was introduced in 2015.

 

[computerSaysNo]

The link to the website has a preview image of the front panel of a bus, featuring a large black panel under the windscreen - similar to the E200MMC - alongside a new headlight unit and a panel that has triangular folds and creases.

I always thought it strange how the E200MMC and (default) E400MMC had a different front-end appearance to each other, especially given the classic E200/E300/E350/E400 were identical at the front which gave a very strong "family" look. I think the light cluster on the E200MMC is a completely different design too to the E400MMC; it's not even the same cluster just rotated by 90°?

the MMC design is beginning to show its age!

Is it? I think it looks very modern.
That said, I think the (slightly revised) E200/E300 front end with the daytime running lights looks very modern too! (I don't think there are any examples of the E350 or E400 with this?)
It looks similar to the Eclipse 2 front end in my opinion, which again still looks modern.
For fairness I should mention I don't think everything looks modern; I've always thought the front end of the Eclipse (1) looks dated and old-fashioned, especially when you compare it to the E400 front end from the same period.

Which like everything else they build, facelifted or otherwise will no doubt rattle and creek and be a bit rubbish in my own personal opinion.

I think a lot of it depends on specification; I'd agree with your opinion in terms of the Stagecoach E400MMCs in that they rattle a lot and the suspension on them seems very hard (from the few that I've been on), whereas the Lothian E400XLBs and E400s seem fine (especially on the Volvo chassis).

 

[Goldfish62]

It was introduced in 2015.

The design was unveiled in 2014. But let's not argue about whether it's seven or eight years old. Split the difference and call it 7.5 years old.

 

[Trnsprt4Sctlnd]

I always thought it strange how the E200MMC and (default) E400MMC had a different front-end appearance to each other, especially given the classic E200/E300/E350/E400 were identical at the front which gave a very strong "family" look. I think the light cluster on the E200MMC is a completely different design too to the E400MMC; it's not even the same cluster just rotated by 90°?

Is it? I think it looks very modern.
That said, I think the (slightly revised) E200/E300 front end with the daytime running lights looks very modern too! (I don't think there are any examples of the E350 or E400 with this?)
It looks similar to the Eclipse 2 front end in my opinion, which again still looks modern.
For fairness I should mention I don't think everything looks modern; I've always thought the front end of the Eclipse (1) looks dated and old-fashioned, especially when you compare it to the E400 front end from the same period.

Your referring to the optional DRL set-up on the E400 Classic?

I think a lot of it depends on specification; I'd agree with your opinion in terms of the Stagecoach E400MMCs in that they rattle a lot and the suspension on them seems very hard (from the few that I've been on), whereas the Lothian E400XLBs and E400s seem fine (especially on the Volvo chassis).

Classic Volvo, However, the B8L-chassis XLB’s have updated suspension to cope with their GVW.

Over the years manufacturers have been trying to make their components lighter in weight. The detrimental factor being that they cannot soak up the bumps as well where it comes to suspension components. It’s even more relevant on the light weight vehicles using Dana front suspension such as the Streetlite & 200 MMC.

When do you ever see a Lothian bus with uneven or sagging suspension? Maintenance my friend.

I’m almost certain that the original E400 Classic had front Dana suspension as standard but you could specify a front ZF unit if preferred. The rear end suspension has always been by ZF.

The latest 400MMC has a Dana front unit and ZF on the rear.

 

[hst43102]

I always thought it strange how the E200MMC and (default) E400MMC had a different front-end appearance to each other, especially given the classic E200/E300/E350/E400 were identical at the front which gave a very strong "family" look. I think the light cluster on the E200MMC is a completely different design too to the E400MMC; it's not even the same cluster just rotated by 90°?

Is it? I think it looks very modern.

I don't think it looks too dated just yet, but I thought it was an extremely modern design when it debuted in 2014. As with many other slightly more "stylish" bus designs (Optare Versa, I'm looking at you...) they looked amazing at the time, but as time goes on the design seems to age faster than the more "conventional" designs like those from MCV etc. Besides it's almost eight years since the design came out, so it's high time for a redesign. I think the new look is very promising, much better than the alternatives from Wrightbus, Switch, MCV - perhaps even better looking than the recent Scania designs!

 

[Goldfish62]

I don't think it looks too dated just yet, but I thought it was an extremely modern design when it debuted in 2014. As with many other slightly more "stylish" bus designs (Optare Versa, I'm looking at you...) they looked amazing at the time, but as time goes on the design seems to age faster than the more "conventional" designs like those from MCV etc. Besides it's almost eight years since the design came out, so it's high time for a redesign. I think the new look is very promising, much better than the alternatives from Wrightbus, Switch, MCV - perhaps even better looking than the recent Scania designs!

From 2024 TfL requires revised frontal geometry on new buses to reduce injury from collisions. The only design so far to comply is the Volvo/MCV BZL, where the front was specifically designed with this in mind. I read somewhere that Wrightbus are preparing a new TfL spec design. It also means that the E400 City body will need some revisions.

 

[TRAX]

I always thought it strange how the E200MMC and (default) E400MMC had a different front-end appearance to each other, especially given the classic E200/E300/E350/E400 were identical at the front which gave a very strong "family" look. I think the light cluster on the E200MMC is a completely different design too to the E400MMC; it's not even the same cluster just rotated by 90°?

The City version of the 400MMC has the same lower front end design as the 200MMC.

 

[Mikey C]

The E400MMC still looks modern to me, and the E400City looks even smarter.

The manufacturer which really needs some new bodywork is Wrights, where the Gemini 3/Streetdeck was a massive backwards step over the Gemini 2 visually, feeling particularly old fashioned upstairs with its shallow windows.

 

[scosutsut]

I prefer the E400 MMC over the City, the sharp lines suit modern liveries better.

Which reminds me, the E200 MMC should really be the E200 City given the front on it!

 

[Goldfish62]

I prefer the E400 MMC over the City, the sharp lines suit modern liveries better.

Which reminds me, the E200 MMC should really be the E200 City given the front on it!

I think the version of the City with quick release glazing and without the glazed staircase looks a bit plain. Bonded glazing and glazed staircase make it stand out (both as per the London spec BYD).

 

[fgwrich]

I prefer the E400 MMC over the City, the sharp lines suit modern liveries better.

Which reminds me, the E200 MMC should really be the E200 City given the front on it!

Have to agree here, the City has always had a look of "We've tried to copy the Wrights RM / SRM" about it, perhaps not helped by the odd and somewhat clunky appearance around the smaller upper deck windscreen / big MMC windows and very rounded back end.

And I too have always wondered why there is such a noticeable design difference between E200 & E400s - I do like the design of either, but it does somewhat break the family resemblance up a little. Still, I really do feel that the MMC is the best thing to come out of Alexander Dennis for years.

 

[LOL The Irony]

It was introduced in 2015.

The 200MMC was certainly introduced in 2015, however, the MMC design was first revealed in 2013 with the 400MMC, which started hitting the roads with the introduction of 64 reg plates.

I prefer the E400 MMC over the City, the sharp lines suit modern liveries better.

Agreed. I also don't like the non-symmetrical design of the City and 200MMC.

Have to agree here, the City has always had a look of "We've tried to copy the Wrights RM / SRM" about it, perhaps not helped by the odd and somewhat clunky appearance around the smaller upper deck windscreen / big MMC windows and very rounded back end.

That's probably the biggest problem. It was trying too hard to be something it isn't.

 

[Goldfish62]

Have to agree here, the City has always had a look of "We've tried to copy the Wrights RM / SRM" about it, perhaps not helped by the odd and somewhat clunky appearance around the smaller upper deck windscreen / big MMC windows and very rounded back end.

ADL regarded the procurement process for the hideous Borismaster to be flawed and the City was a direct response to it, so it's no surprise that there are elements that are very similar. It worked in that IMHO ADL produced a much better looking bus (if not a good as the MMC). The London spec hybrid ones all had TfL-spec interiors, which while clearly based on the Borismaster were brighter and more cheerful than what Heatherwick came up with.

Notable also that while Wrights offered the Borismaster bodywork on Volvo outside London sales have been precisely zero. ADL has of course had far more success with the City bodywork outside London.

 

[Jordan Adam]

In fairness the build quality on Bluebirds batch of Enviro400EVs is okay and they have proven reliable albeit limited in terms of range, they don't rattle too much either but do feel and look on the cheap side.

However the lower deck interior layout is laughable, the seats towards the rear and crammed in with no knee or head room while the backs of the seats on either side over the front wheels are far too upright making them impossible to sit in. Additionally because the cab is lower down on the BYD chassis there are quite a few blind spots that wouldn't exist on a standard integral example. The two most notable being on the offside front corner where the windscreen raises up, and the frame for the opening section of the drivers window which for many shorter drivers is at eye level.