Bus "full"

[Geordie driver]

Drivers and shop staff between a rock and a hard place, usual " experts" on here moaning.

Do they actually imagine the vast majority of drivers and shop workers want to put up with the constant stream of abuse and harrassment they get? Here is a clue, no they don't. If they don't follow the rules there will be some sad **** videoing it and making a compliant.

The government tell them to do one thing, the company tells them to do this, the public ( or at least a significant number of them) treat them like dirt.

If I see someone I don't like my " bus full" sign goes on. Serves them right.

 

[Eyersey468]

Last September I had somebody having a moan and then go running to the press over the fact I had about 60 on a double decker, quite a few of which were schoolchildren, which we can't leave, and I felt I couldn't say to people the schoolkids can get on but you can't, it was one of those situations where whatever I did it would have been wrong. All I could do was ring Control, tell them it was full and that we would need a duplicate on that service in future

 

[scosutsut]

If I see someone I don't like my " bus full" sign goes on. Serves them right.

This made my morning, thank you!

 

[duncombec]

Drivers and shop staff between a rock and a hard place, usual " experts" on here moaning.

Do they actually imagine the vast majority of drivers and shop workers want to put up with the constant stream of abuse and harrassment they get? Here is a clue, no they don't. If they don't follow the rules there will be some sad **** videoing it and making a compliant.

The government tell them to do one thing, the company tells them to do this, the public ( or at least a significant number of them) treat them like dirt.

If I see someone I don't like my " bus full" sign goes on. Serves them right.

I think the majority of passengers realise the driver is just doing what they are told by "higher ups", but they are the public face of the company at that moment in time. You've posted repeatedly about lack of understanding from your (former) management; perhaps those passengers who are "having a go" at the driver are merely passing on the frustration they will experience from their own managers? Surely you can understand the perspective of a passenger who, if they can't get on the particular bus, will be late for work, late for childcare, late home after a day rushing around freshly re-opened shops, momentarily doesn't manage to keep their frustration in check when told they can't board? Have you never had a sharp word for shop staff if they've kept you waiting after a full days driving?

Attitude is a two-way thing, and we are all human: there are some passengers whose attitude leaves a lot to be desired, but some drivers likewise. Take an example from Saturday. In this area, although a normal timetable was running Monday to Friday, it was still heavily reduced on Saturdays (including to one of the country's biggest shopping centres).
I'm at risk of an off-topic warning here as my personal experience doesn't directly relate to "bus full", (there were about 10 of us for an advisory capacity of 17), but the driver arrives, unloads, ambles off without a word (presumably for a 'bio-break'), ambles back, closes the doors behind him, then sits for about five minutes with his hands clasped on the steering wheel, then eventually taps into his ticket machine, loads passengers, and we leave about 7 minutes late on a service running every half hour (every 12 in normal times). He didn't acknowledge a single passenger on boarding or alighting. Would it really have been too much to ask for his customer service to have said "I'll be back in a sec" and "sorry, the ticket machine took ages to load"? Or is that somehow acceptable for him, but the passengers (a mix of leisure and workers) have to be understanding, sweetness and light? If I'd have been the 18th passenger in the queue and told I couldn't board after that behaviour I think I've have struggled to smile sweetly and step off the platform without a sharp word or five.
The contrast with a local inspector (sorry, duty manager) in a different town (same company) a week before, who was swapping buses all the place to adjust for capacity and make the best out of a bad situation was stark. Who got most thanks from intending passengers?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume if he came in late he was taking his full "PNB" (don't know the bus term) so as not to breach tacho regs. But it wouldn't have hurt to say that.

 

[Eyersey468]

I assume if he came in late he was taking his full "PNB" (don't know the bus term) so as not to breach tacho regs. But it wouldn't have hurt to say that.

If it was a local bus service (ie under 50km long) it wouldn't have been on tacho

 

[duncombec]

I assume if he came in late he was taking his full "PNB" (don't know the bus term) so as not to breach tacho regs. But it wouldn't have hurt to say that.

If it was a local bus service (ie under 50km long) it wouldn't have been on tacho

It's an out-and-back urban service with a roundtrip time of 55 minutes (probably slightly less), and it's pretty well-known if personal belongings stay in the cab it's a nip across to the main building for the facilities. The minutes staring into space when he should have already left, let alone be loading passengers, were a greater cause of irritation in the queue which could have easily been solved with a single sentence.

My point, though, was a response to the post from Geordie Driver I quoted, namely that whilst there are some passengers who don't seem to understand it wasn't the driver's decision to limit capacity on a reduced timetable or run a smaller bus at an inconvenient time, there are also some passengers who totally understand but have used up their supply of teeth-gritting smiles for the day and just want to get home, and some drivers who don't exactly help themselves with their attitude towards waiting passengers. It isn't just a simple "passengers moaning, drivers taking it, managers do nothing" situation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If it was a local bus service (ie under 50km long) it wouldn't have been on tacho

Sorry, for some reason I had a coach in my mind, no idea why.

 

[Eyersey468]

Sorry, for some reason I had a coach in my mind, no idea why.

No problem. That said I think some companies do have all their drivers on tacho even if they don't need to be to make doing a mix of EU and domestic work easier, but I am going off topic now

 

[Geordie driver]

I have found, in these difficult times, most people have behaved quite well, I always make a point of thanking retail staff especially those manning the doors and trying to ensure rules are followed, I have even had words with people outside the shop who think it's ok to abuse staff, they are not so big and brave when they know you can give it back. I certainly don't expect retail staff to give their reasons should they need to leave their till, none of my business.

My main thrust was to those using phrases like "jobsworth" and " mini Hitlers", do they say that to them in real life?

I suspect a lot of it is projection.

I am even polite to those I leave with my " bus full" sign because I don't like them, give them a nice cheery wave and an ( illegal) toot of my horn.

They must enjoy it too, as they always seem to give me a victory salute back.

 

[GusB]

I think we are drifting from the subject of the thread here. Please stay on topic.

 

[father_jack]

The one thing I will say about "BUS FULL" is leave the route number up !!!

At least you know what has gone zooming past and can re-evaluate your journey by travelling so far and walking or by changing etc, 42-45 and 35-37 in Bristol for example.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

The one thing I will say about "BUS FULL" is leave the route number up !!!

At least you know what has gone zooming past and can re-evaluate your journey by travelling so far and walking or by changing etc, 42-45 and 35-37 in Bristol for example.

Really good point actually.

In my example given earlier, my outbound morning service is timetabled to arrive at the bus stop at the exact same time as another route (both use the same types of buses). It would make life a lot easier if I could actually tell which one had just driven past me!

Edit: Slightly off-topic, but related - neither is it a clever idea have an alternating destination display showing the usual route and destination and then some silly COVID-19 slogan/reminder about face coverings or social distancing. By the time I've waited for the destination display to update to show actual, important information, i.e. the route number(!!!), the bus probably would've driven past me! *cough cough* Arriva...

 

[Geordie driver]

This made my morning, thank you!

I am glad someone got it.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm glad that any of the buses around me seem to have avoided this practice. It's down to my own judgement whether or not I'd feel safe getting on a bus, not the company's.

To be fair it's also for the safety of the people already on the bus

 

[ValleyLines142]

Here in Gloucester, I must admit the Stagecoach West are normally very good with passenger numbers, and will state sorry bus full if buses are at maximum capacity.

The only problem is in the evenings and Sundays, as my route (the 1) only runs every 40 minutes and Stagecoach insist on using Enviro 200s. The 19:45 departure from Clarence Street was full last Sunday and the next one wasn't for another 40 minutes! They need to start using the Tridents or any other spare deckers on a Sunday, as these are usually for school services (which obviously doesn't apply on the weekends!).

Two weeks ago, the services went back to pre-COVID frequencies, which is great, but it now means that the 1 is now in the hands of Enviro 300s which can be quite busy. During the reduced timetable, the 1 was being operated by Gold Scania E400s.

 

[Martin1988]

I mainly use Service 1 (Broomhill to Cribbs Causeway) for my commute to work. I catch the bus any time between 0730 and 0930 to get into town and so far have not had a situation where the bus has been full. When I catch the bus home (any time between 1700 and 1900) there's been no problem either. Sometimes I'll catch an X39/178/349 from Bath Road and likewise have never had a situation where the bus has driven past full.

One memorable occasion where I recall a service being full was on a Friday evening back in January where there was a Coronavirus press briefing on where (I think Matt Hancock) pleaded with everyone to stick to the lockdown rules and stay indoors over the weekend. Walking home along the A4 afterwards, an X39 passed me the opposite way with "Sorry Bus Full" on the display.

 

[londonbridge]

On some London buses, I’ve noticed the screen behind which the driver sits in his cab has a notice saying this screen is sealed to protect you and the driver”, but the first seat behind the drivers cab is still taped off. If the cab is completely sealed off then why is it deemed unsafe to sit immediately behind it?

 

[Ianno87]

On some London buses, I’ve noticed the screen behind which the driver sits in his cab has a notice saying this screen is sealed to protect you and the driver”, but the first seat behind the drivers cab is still taped off. If the cab is completely sealed off then why is it deemed unsafe to sit immediately behind it?

Because contact as people board/alight is only brief. Sitting in close proximity for an extended period is riskier (as air breathed can get around the screen)

 

[johnnychips]

I take it that the ‘social distancing‘ is advice, rather than legislation, and then the bus companies decide their own policies. We had 32 on a single decker today, and the driver explained he didn’t want to leave anybody behind on a two-hourly service.

 

[Ianno87]

I take it that the ‘social distancing‘ is advice, rather than legislation, and then the bus companies decide their own policies. We had 32 on a single decker today, and the driver explained he didn’t want to leave anybody behind on a two-hourly service.

Here the sign on Stagecoach buses states "Advisory" Capacity. Presumably drivers are empowered to apply some common sense in the case of less regular services (or maybe where a slightly busier bus may only be necessary for a short distance, e.g. approaching a town centre)

 

[Eyersey468]

Here the sign on Stagecoach buses states "Advisory" Capacity. Presumably drivers are empowered to apply some common sense in the case of less regular services (or maybe where a slightly busier bus may only be necessary for a short distance, e.g. approaching a town centre)

We have always been told the 32 limit on a decker isn't set in stone.

 

[Robertj21a]

I take it that the ‘social distancing‘ is advice, rather than legislation, and then the bus companies decide their own policies. We had 32 on a single decker today, and the driver explained he didn’t want to leave anybody behind on a two-hourly service.

It's only advisory, nothing legal. Some operators are reported to have ignored it.

 

[L401CJF]

I've been working throughout the whole pandemic, at the end of the day the capacities are advisory. I'm happy to go a few over to avoid leaving vulnerable people particularly on infrequent services.

For example I had a max capacity 35 double decker on an hourly route late at night in the summer. Leaving the city center when all the restaurants etc were open and I picked up everybody wanting the bus bringing me up to around 45 people I think. The service was hourly and the bus behind was the last service, no way was i leaving 10 people behind for an hour who may then get a "by the book" driver who refuses to take any excess passengers on the last service!

Other drivers of course follow the advisory capacity to the book. A lot of drivers are also military standard when it comes to enforcement of mask wearing, refusing people without exemption cards etc even though we have been told if they say they're exempt that's good enough. I personally don't look at masks as its not my job to enforce.

The only time I won't go over the advisory capacity is if I'm being relieved by another driver mid trip as some have a liking to make a big scene over it.

 

[Eyersey468]

I've been working throughout the whole pandemic, at the end of the day the capacities are advisory. I'm happy to go a few over to avoid leaving vulnerable people particularly on infrequent services.

For example I had a max capacity 35 double decker on an hourly route late at night in the summer. Leaving the city center when all the restaurants etc were open and I picked up everybody wanting the bus bringing me up to around 45 people I think. The service was hourly and the bus behind was the last service, no way was i leaving 10 people behind for an hour who may then get a "by the book" driver who refuses to take any excess passengers on the last service!

Other drivers of course follow the advisory capacity to the book. A lot of drivers are also military standard when it comes to enforcement of mask wearing, refusing people without exemption cards etc even though we have been told if they say they're exempt that's good enough. I personally don't look at masks as its not my job to enforce.

The only time I won't go over the advisory capacity is if I'm being relieved by another driver mid trip as some have a liking to make a big scene over it.

This is my take on it too, regarding the advisory capacity I don't worry about going slightly over. Thar said if I am on a road which has a bus every few minutes then I won't go as far over capacity as one that only has a bus every hour. Regarding masks to be honest I don't bother saying anything, I'm not the police and IMO it's not worth the hassle to be honest.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Had to let two 233s to Denby Dale go this afternoon before giving up and using the train+RRB (more on that elsewhere)... Several deckers parked up in Waterloo depot on the inbound journey though, and the former K-line routes are singles only. Either Tiger have decided not to use their deckers, or they're all broken (this is Tiger though, so either or both of those are likely).

Hopefully Transdev as the new owners will manage to succeed where so many have failed, and actually provide a decent quality service.

 

[Robertj21a]

Had to let two 233s to Denby Dale go this afternoon before giving up and using the train+RRB (more on that elsewhere)... Several deckers parked up in Waterloo depot on the inbound journey though, and the former K-line routes are singles only. Either Tiger have decided not to use their deckers, or they're all broken (this is Tiger though, so either or both of those are likely).

Hopefully Transdev as the new owners will manage to succeed where so many have failed, and actually provide a decent quality service.

Double deckers were probably going out on scheduled school runs.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Finally, a bus operator has gone vocal about turning passengers away because the bus is 40% full.

Covid: Call for distancing rules on buses to be eased

A bus operator says passengers are being turned away at peak times as demand for buses increases.

www.bbc.co.uk

Covid: Call for distancing rules on buses to be eased
Social distancing rules on buses should be relaxed to cater for increased demand, a leading operator has claimed.

Current Scottish government guidance is for one metre physical distancing on all forms of public transport.

But independent operator McGill's says the restrictions mean it is now turning away people at peak times because its buses are full.

Trade unions have said any changes must be in line with Scottish government Covid guidance.

Transport Scotland said the Scottish government had "invested significantly" to ensure public transport services were available during the pandemic and said capacity on public transport would still need to be managed as wider restrictions are eased.

McGill's managing director Ralph Roberts told the Good Morning Scotland programme he was worried a "healthy return" of passengers would be stymied by the distancing rules not being eased quickly enough.

Bus industry sources have told BBC Scotland that a number of operators are nearing capacity at peak times under existing social distancing rules.

They fear people will be put off getting back to using buses if the situation worsens.

There is no current timetable for when all social distancing requirements in Scotland will be lifted but a significant further relaxation of Covid rules is expected in the coming months.

Mr Roberts said: "Bus service use is about 65% of normal pre-pandemic levels and it is growing every week and we have still to reach the next level of the lockdown release, so people are going to be turned away at bus stops due to the one metre distancing.

"It is happening now. Thankfully it is on frequent services so there will be a bus in the next five to 10 minutes."

Mr Roberts, whose firm mainly operates in the west of Scotland, said he was not advocating that changes to social distancing were "done today" but rather in "due course" to allow the industry to cater for the increasing demand.

A spokesman for the Confederation of Passenger Transport (Scotland), a trade association for the bus and coach industries, said: "Data shows the risk Covid transmission on public transport is minimal compared to many other public settings, suggesting that the measures introduced by operators thus far have been effective.

"CPT hopes that the next review of social distancing recognises this and allows bus to follow the lead of other sectors and increase capacity.

"Only then can we hope to meet increasing demand, provide an attractive and affordable alternative to car and thereby contribute to reducing emissions related to transport."

Transport Scotland data on the use of concessionary travel passes shows a steady increase in the number of people using buses in recent months.

Dougie Maguire of the Unite union told Good Morning Scotland that the "policing of passengers on buses" was still a concern for bus drivers, who want restrictions eased in a "safe and controlled manner".

He said: "The bus companies in Scotland cannot be allowed to drive the rules on this."

Mr Maguire said the industry had to be led by Scottish government guidance.

He said: "We all want to see bus services back to full capacity but these restrictions are still in place, and until they are lifted we don't see that it makes sense whatsoever to have multiple journeys by lots of people on buses."

A Transport Scotland spokesman said: "Capacity on public transport is currently restricted due to the requirement for one metre physical distancing on services alongside a range of other measures to help protect the public, passengers and staff from the risks associated with Covid.

"As restrictions ease demand for public transport will increase, however, we will still need to manage capacity to ensure physical distancing is maintained as much as possible."

The spokesman said the Scottish government has "invested significantly" to ensure transport services were available at key times, also allowing for more capacity on some busier routes.

A campaign to encourage people back on to public transport once the pandemic is over is also planned.

The Transport Scotland spokesman is not exactly optimistic about relaxing the requirement it seems.

 

[Bikeman78]

Finally, a bus operator has gone vocal about turning passengers away because the bus is 40% full.

Covid: Call for distancing rules on buses to be eased

A bus operator says passengers are being turned away at peak times as demand for buses increases.

www.bbc.co.uk

The Transport Scotland spokesman is not exactly optimistic about relaxing the requirement it seems.

This sums up why I started this discussion. If trains and tubes can fill up properly, why not buses? The only reason I catch a bus is to take the kids on a train. I've been lucky so far but if I get left behind on more than one occasion then I'll start driving to Newport or Heath High Level. Plenty of free parking nearby.

 

[Megafuss]

It seems Stagecoach has a foolproof way of getting extra buses in to the system to avoid full buses while trying to get its former customers back... by cutting services.

Most of the routes are not even back at pre covid frequencies, so they should have some resource knocking around.

https://twitter.com/Stagecoach_East/status/1389565559847723015?s=19