Bus drivers salary.

[90019]

I hope that you see where I'm coming from?

Other than being in control of a vehicle transporting people, the skills aren't really comparable between the two jobs.

 

[anthony263]

If anyone has been on the FTR in places like York or Leeds, they'll know that conductors had to be introduced due to the fact the automatic ticket machine used to break down repeatedly.

the ftr's in swansea are ok, but the automated annoucements are terrible and they dont operate after 6pm or on sundays (Big mistake especially on match days as normal buses cannot cope, which is likely to be worse when swansea city are playing home games this season)

I certainly think i should be getting at least £9-£12 per hour and as for coach drivers considering how bad driving a coach on motorways is they should be on at least £15 per hour.

As for the job being hard i can say that it is especially if you are driving in cities where you have to look out for terrible cyclists who seem to love cutting you up and then complain when you hit them.

 

[GearJammer]

So erm, i gotta ask, how long does it take to train to be a train driver, and how long does it take to train as a bus driver?

 

[BestWestern]

So erm, i gotta ask, how long does it take to train to be a train driver, and how long does it take to train as a bus driver?

About a year for a train, about a month or two for a bus! But that's largely down to the plethora of rules and regulations which are applicable on the railways, as well as the need to learn the specifics of each route and so on, and the long period of monitoring which is stipulated before a new Driver can be let loose alone. The physical controls alone of something like a Sprinter are not rocket science.
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Im going to take a risk and hope it doesnt backfire on me..

I would say that its possible that a bus driver is as skilled as a train driver, Because although a train driver has to learn the route, after that he is merely repeting information and adjusting it to the that days circumstances (weather, loadings and unit) this is because of the long braking times making a more reactive driving impossible. Whereas a bus driver has a set of skills, that they can then apply to any situation, as the better brakes on a bus allow this style to be possible.

I hope that you see where I'm coming from?

As somebody already mentioned above, the skillsets are very different for the two different jobs, but I do appreciate some of what you suggest. The skills required by a train driver are far more focussed on learning and abiding by endless sets of rules and procedures, and the ability - in theory at least - to deal with emergency or operational situations in a very specific manner, due to the isolated nature of many railway lines and the need to quickly resolve problems which can lead to disruption.

A PCV driver requires greater skill in actually operating their vehicle, and has to contend with constant impending hazards from start to finish, but there is far less focus on procedure and the need to be able to deal with things in a set way, the theory being that the emergency services are always on hand if there's an emergency, and the fitters are on hand if you break down. The big differential however, is the fact that PCV driving involves essentially an extension of an existing driving licence, something that most people have, meaning the job is far less specialised than train driving.

It's worth pointing out in all this, that if firms such as Stagecoach etc had their way train drivers would be on nowhere near what they currently earn. A certain Sir Brian has aired his views many times that the railway should be run far more like a bus operation, which is the polite way of saying lower wages and crap conditions! It's only because the railway and it's practices are shrouded in protective red tape and strong Union defensiveness that things are the way they are. The bus industry doesn't have these luxuries, and so the situation is very different.

 

[GearJammer]

About a year for a train, about a month or two for a bus! But that's largely down to the plethora of rules and regulations which are applicable on the railways, as well as the need to learn the specifics of each route and so on, and the long period of monitoring which is stipulated before a new Driver can be let loose alone. The physical controls alone of something like a Sprinter are not rocket science.
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As somebody already mentioned above, the skillsets are very different for the two different jobs, but I do appreciate some of what you suggest. The skills required by a train driver are far more focussed on learning and abiding by endless sets of rules and procedures, and the ability - in theory at least - to deal with emergency or operational situations in a very specific manner, due to the isolated nature of many railway lines and the need to quickly resolve problems which can lead to disruption.

A PCV driver requires greater skill in actually operating their vehicle, and has to contend with constant impending hazards from start to finish, but there is far less focus on procedure and the need to be able to deal with things in a set way, the theory being that the emergency services are always on hand if there's an emergency, and the fitters are on hand if you break down. The big differential however, is the fact that PCV driving involves essentially an extension of an existing driving licence, something that most people have, meaning the job is far less specialised than train driving.

It's worth pointing out in all this, that if firms such as Stagecoach etc had their way train drivers would be on nowhere near what they currently earn. A certain Sir Brian has aired his views many times that the railway should be run far more like a bus operation, which is the polite way of saying lower wages and crap conditions! It's only because the railway and it's practices are shrouded in protective red tape and strong Union defensiveness that things are the way they are. The bus industry doesn't have these luxuries, and so the situation is very different.

I agree with pretty much all you say, the reason i asked was that a bus driver first has to have a car licence, which means he has to learn the highway code, pass a theory, pass his car test, then do a PCV theory test, they now have to do the CPC test, then pass his bus driving test, i think the mojority of people seem to forget that said bus driver then has to learn several routes and all the stops and there names before he can be properly let loose on the road, i should imagine getting 'on the road' in a bus actually takes a bit longer than people think, im not gonna say a bus driver is any better or worse than a train driver, they both do important roles.

 

[BestWestern]

I agree with pretty much all you say, the reason i asked was that a bus driver first has to have a car licence, which means he has to learn the highway code, pass a theory, pass his car test, then do a PCV theory test, they now have to do the CPC test, then pass his bus driving test, i think the mojority of people seem to forget that said bus driver then has to learn several routes and all the stops and there names before he can be properly let loose on the road, i should imagine getting 'on the road' in a bus actually takes a bit longer than people think, im not gonna say a bus driver is any better or worse than a train driver, they both do important roles.

I think that's a part of the problem; because everybody drives a car, any job which simply requires a further class of driving entitlement is viewed as being very simple, something which most of the population could do, and therefore a trivial job role of little significance. That completely fails to take into consideration the daily tasks that a PCV driver actually has to undertake however, the same can be said for an LGV driver and so on. It doesn't help when certain companies (particularly a certain one based in Aberdeen) employ boatloads of shipped-in Polski wonders who have received totally inadequate training to drive safely or interact with customers. I recall their arrival at my local depots whilst I was driving, and quite frankly it was scary that these people were allowed out on the roads in charge of a bus full of people. That's not a slur against the drivers themselves, they simply took up a job offer, but the way in which they were 'processed' by some of the employers was utterly shocking. Again, the comparisons between the bus industry and the railway are clear to see.

 

[notadriver]

Your a train conductor if I'm not mistaken right BestWestern? I wondered if you were going for the train driver role too?

Just a couple of thoughts on learning differences. For a bus driver to learn one route the bus company might give he or she a couple of days. Then you might go out with a minder for a day or two.

Learning each bus type 'type training' is basically an hour with an instructor walking around the vehicle and then a quick test drive.

Coach drivers don't get any route learning and type training could involve asking another driver which takes half an hour or less.

If you break down in a bus or coach you call out the engineers as mentioned before.

To learn a train route properly - can take a month (usually longer for long / complex routes) You must know the position of every signal, every speed restriction, the route indications possible, braking points (there are no handy little signs telling you when to put the brakes on for a station)

Learning each different type of train which includes fixing basic faults takes 2 weeks per type.


A new train driver must have at least 225 actual hours of driving 40 of which must be dark driving. The actual train driving test takes place over a week as a manager checks your competency to drive over all the routes youve learned both day and night.

Why is this necessary and so important? It comes down to this. Buses are driven on line of sight. They can brake hard enough to react to what the driver sees. As an experienced coach driver I would more than happy to jump in any bus or coach and drive off.

Trains are can obviously carry far more passengers than a bus are a lot heavier and in general a lot faster. Only a driver competent with the traction they are driving and fully competent and passed on the specific route they are driving on are allowed to drive. If a driver hasn't learnt a diversionary route and needs to use it - they will have to be conducted by another driver who *knows* (signs for) the route.

I could walk into a bus or coach company be interviewed and start driving the same day. Even an experienced train driver wouldn't be productive for at least a couple of months from joining a TOC.

 

[northwichcat]

bus driver then has to learn several routes and all the stops and there names before he can be properly let loose on the road

I wish they did. I've been on various operators' services including First and Arriva where I've said the name of the road I want to alight at and the bus driver has looked at me like I said something like "How many protons are in this bus' body?" And while bus drivers can make mistakes and take a wrong turning or missed a turning, sometimes when passengers point out they've made a wrong turning or missed a turning the bus driver doesn't believe them.

Now a lot of bus routes have a standard single fare and a day ticket, which can help hide any lack of knowledge.

 

[exile]

I've been on a NE coach where the driver has ended up on the wrong motorway by missing an exit - this was before satnavs so I've had to get them back on the right route using my mental map of the UK! I still think I should have been given a free ticket.....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've been on a NE coach where the driver has ended up on the wrong motorway by missing an exit - this was before satnavs so I've had to get them back on the right route using my mental map of the UK! I still think I should have been given a free ticket.....

I must have been on numerous buses in Greater Manchester in my time over the years when a relief driver has taken the wrong route, usually accompanied by howls of outrage by passengers, who then always direct him back to his correct route...some by better routes than others:roll:

This must have happened to many other forum users and it does make for exciting diversions. Still, it does break up the "sameness" of your journey.

 

[strange6]

I can see this becoming a train driver vs bus driver thread so I think will refrain from responding to Yews post (no offence)

You're quite right. They are both highly skilled jobs and both are essential for keeping the country moving. I can't see why people seem to think that one is better than the other.

 

[Tom B]

I'd suggest that the duties and responsibilities of a "bus driver" can be vastly different between one and the next.

Take a driver on a London route, for instance. He must know one or two routes, he doesn't deal with cash as it's all Oyster or off-bus, he has a controller with a radio, CCTV for safety, and if it all goes titsup the next bus is 10 minutes behind. The depot will doubtless have fitters and inspectors.

A driver with a small company outwith London, however, may need to know a plethora of routes, deal with cash on a regular basis, have a mobile phone to call the boss, and know that people are relying on him as the next bus is in an hour/ tomorrow/ next week. Indeed, depending on when he books on and off, there may not be a fitter or inspector so if the bus he's allocated is dodgy he has to fix it himself or find another one.

OK deliberately polar examples but you get the picture!

 

[BestWestern]

Your a train conductor if I'm not mistaken right BestWestern? I wondered if you were going for the train driver role too?

I am a Conductor indeed. At the moment I can honestly say that I'm not overly fussed about persuing the Driving side. I enjoy most of the attributes of what we Guards do for our living, the money is pretty good and I'm content with it for the time being. I'm also one of our younger chaps, and I do feel that there is value in not 'rushing' one's career purely for the sake of it; Driver would be the extremity of my aspirations and I would be concerned that doing it from a relatively young age would inevitably lead to premature boredom after a decade or two, which is never a good thing. Of course, everybody is different and some people set their sights on it from day one, but I'm not hellbent on it at this point!

Your mention of 'Line of Sight' is an interesting point, and brings to mind the different operating practices with UK tramway systems, some of which are as above and others seem more reliant upon a 'proper' signalling system. I wonder whether there is any difference in training and pay standards?

 

[notadriver]

I am a Conductor indeed. At the moment I can honestly say that I'm not overly fussed about persuing the Driving side. I enjoy most of the attributes of what we Guards do for our living, the money is pretty good and I'm content with it for the time being. I'm also one of our younger chaps, and I do feel that there is value in not 'rushing' one's career purely for the sake of it; Driver would be the extremity of my aspirations and I would be concerned that doing it from a relatively young age would inevitably lead to premature boredom after a decade or two, which is never a good thing. Of course, everybody is different and some people set their sights on it from day one, but I'm not hellbent on it at this point!

Your mention of 'Line of Sight' is an interesting point, and brings to mind the different operating practices with UK tramway systems, some of which are as above and others seem more reliant upon a 'proper' signalling system. I wonder whether there is any difference in training and pay standards?

I know a Tram driver instructor whose basic is 24k (similar to a conductors). The training period is around 4 months. Perhaps as tram systems aren't as isolated as railways and speeds generally much slower coupled with the bus like braking capabilities of trams that have electromagnetic brakes, it is quicker to train a driver up?

In the same way as buses it seems many people employed by the company can drive a tram from maintenance fitters to 'controllers'.

On the railway only a qualified main line driver can take over the controls (on the main line) This means Drivers, Driver instructors and Driver Managers. Noone else.

If a bus was involved in a fatal RTA, a member of the police who knew how to drive could move the vehicle if needed. The BTP cannot take the controls and move a train.