Bus Driver Shortages

[TravelDream]

Take First Scotland East at Deans, drivers on £11.10/h can work at Lothian Country (quite literally across the road) for £12.08 (as of October 3rd, currently £11.78) with better conditions, shifts etc.

A no-brainer surely?
First are lucky that too many employees have loyalty to their employer and many other have too much inertia.

 

[JurassicMan]

Take First Scotland East at Deans, drivers on £11.10/h can work at Lothian Country (quite literally across the road) for £12.08 (as of October 3rd, currently £11.78) with better conditions, shifts etc.

Whilst the hourly rate is unquestionably higher i'm not sure your assumption on conditions and shifts being "better" is totally correct.

£11.10 per hour plus £25 bonus for RD Working and shift paid straight through at weekends helps the hourly rate for anyone wishing to earn extra.
80% sick pay for 26 weeks
25 Annual days holiday paid on p60 rate.
No requirement to walk in all weathers or take own vehicle to take over duty.

Pros and cons as in all walks of life ,just depends what suits the individuals i guess.

 

[Goldfish62]

Whilst the hourly rate is unquestionably higher i'm not sure your assumption on conditions and shifts being "better" is totally correct.

£11.10 per hour plus £25 bonus for RD Working and shift paid straight through at weekends helps the hourly rate for anyone wishing to earn extra.
80% sick pay for 26 weeks
25 Annual days holiday paid on p60 rate.
No requirement to walk in all weathers or take own vehicle to take over duty.

Pros and cons as in all walks of life ,just depends what suits the individuals i guess.

Yes, and another way of comparing is average rostered earning and the average rostered working week.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Oddly enough I know someone ( not me , honest) doing 4 schools a day for £17 an hour, it's a local taxi firm that has taken on some school bus work.

It's self employed, no holiday pay, no sick pay or pension contribution, sort out your own national insurance.

Only 4 hours driving a day and less than 3 of them in service, it suits him and he has his pension to fall back on if he gets sick of it.

£340 a week, every weekend off,, no late work and every school holiday off, admittedly, unpaid.

Hmmm. And HMRC would probably take the view that such a role cannot be ‘self-employed’.....

 

[Goldfish62]

Hmmm. And HMRC would probably take the view that such a role cannot be ‘self-employed’.....

Definitely!

 

[TravelDream]

Hmmm. And HMRC would probably take the view that such a role cannot be ‘self-employed’.....

This is where I have great sympathy with the taxman.

If someone else determines your working hours, work pattern, route, holidays, work behavior etc. etc. and this goes on for any length of time, how can it be anything other than employment?


I have more sympathy for those who because of IR35 pay far more tax now than they used to and pay far more here than on the continent.

 

[Simon75]

Trentbarton maybe short staff, as one bus the Villager(Burton to Derby) was missing from it on the 29th September

 

[Ken H]

This is where I have great sympathy with the taxman.

If someone else determines your working hours, work pattern, route, holidays, work behavior etc. etc. and this goes on for any length of time, how can it be anything other than employment?


I have more sympathy for those who because of IR35 pay far more tax now than they used to and pay far more here than on the continent.

The sudden change has killed off temping and contracting. Employers are finding it harder to get short term staff. As we have seen in the HGV industry. There has to be a middle way.

 

[Goldfish62]

If someone else determines your working hours, work pattern, route, holidays, work behavior etc. etc. and this goes on for any length of time, how can it be anything other than employment?

It's clearly a deliberate ploy to avoid the costs of employing someone including employer's NI and employer's Pension contributions. There is a term for it, but I won't quote it here.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Oct 2021 ==

I have more sympathy for those who because of IR35 pay far more tax now than they used to and pay far more here than on the continent.

I'm currently working under IR35 and, yes, it adds around 10% to my tax deductions. The fortunate position I'm in means I can absorb that, but I can well see that so many working under IR35 can't.

 

[TravelDream]

I was reading The Register earlier and found an interesting article from the US. It's about the shortage of school bus drivers there. There are the old chestnuts of poor pay and conditions, but some school districts seem to be blaming Amazon for 'poaching' drivers. What is crazy is that these school districts fired drivers during Covid when schools shut. I don't know if those school districts believe they own those drivers, but that it totally mad. The problem they have is many of those drivers prefer the pay and conditions of Amazon than their old jobs.
Totally off topic, but it is a huge issue in the US as they have shut thousands and thousands of community schools to open out-of-town super schools making busing essential.

US school districts blame Amazon for bus driver shortage

PA, MA bring in National Guard to plug gaps, while Boston teacher tells of stripper bus hired for school trip

www.theregister.com

It's clearly a deliberate ploy to avoid the costs of employing someone including employer's NI and employer's Pension contributions. There is a term for it, but I won't quote it here.

I'm currently working under IR35 and, yes, it adds around 10% to my tax deductions. The fortunate position I'm in means I can absorb that, but I can well see that so many working under IR35 can't.

I definitely get why companies do it. What I am saying is it is definitely right for the taxman to go after those who do it and for rules to be put in place to stop it.

On IR35, I was particularly thinking of lorry drivers to be honest. Forgetting Brexit and everything, why would a foreigner work here when they can work in Germany for the same gross salary and, thus, a higher take-home net salary? It doesn't make sense.

 

[Ken H]

I was reading The Register earlier and found an interesting article from the US. It's about the shortage of school bus drivers there. There are the old chestnuts of poor pay and conditions, but some school districts seem to be blaming Amazon for 'poaching' drivers. What is crazy is that these school districts fired drivers during Covid when schools shut. I don't know if those school districts believe they own those drivers, but that it totally mad. The problem they have is many of those drivers prefer the pay and conditions of Amazon than their old jobs.
Totally off topic, but it is a huge issue in the US as they have shut thousands and thousands of community schools to open out-of-town super schools making busing essential.

US school districts blame Amazon for bus driver shortage

PA, MA bring in National Guard to plug gaps, while Boston teacher tells of stripper bus hired for school trip

www.theregister.com

I definitely get why companies do it. What I am saying is it is definitely right for the taxman to go after those who do it and for rules to be put in place to stop it.

On IR35, I was particularly thinking of lorry drivers to be honest. Forgetting Brexit and everything, why would a foreigner work here when they can work in Germany for the same gross salary and, thus, a higher take-home net salary? It doesn't make sense.

Laffer curve in action

(if you increase taxes, you will not get the revenue increases you expect because people change their behavior. emigrate, work less, or even defraud the taxman. As you increase taxes the tax take gets less and less until a rise will have a negative effect on revenue. )

 

[43055]

Trentbarton maybe short staff, as one bus the Villager(Burton to Derby) was missing from it on the 29th September

Happened a few times over the last week. One day last week two consecutive journeys were missing leaving a 90 min gap. Also affecting other Derby routes when looking at bustimes for today with one bus missing at certain times.

 

[anthony263]

We've recently accepted a payrise to £10.75 per hour . I suppose others will have wanted more but its good enough for me now

 

[notadriver]

Does anyone know if national express coaches do agency / part time drivers ? To get on their network seems to require a full time commitment I’m unable to give.

 

[Mwanesh]

National Express Stansted do use agency staff. Manley Summers is the main agency for bus and coach drivers.

 

[rcro]

Clearly there is no shortage in South Wales at the moment…

Attachment shows a paid for facebook advert from the South Wales Argus encouraging it’s bus driving readers to move to Guernsey and stop reading their newspaper.

 

[Eyersey468]

Does anyone know if national express coaches do agency / part time drivers ? To get on their network seems to require a full time commitment I’m unable to give.

Some operators have part time National Express drivers, we used to have one though he retired on health grounds instead of coming back from furlough.

 

[TravelDream]

Clearly there is no shortage in South Wales at the moment…

Attachment shows a paid for facebook advert from the South Wales Argus encouraging it’s bus driving readers to move to Guernsey and stop reading their newspaper.

How do you work out that? There's definitely is a shortage in South Wales. However, people will still move jobs when there's a shortage for different reasons.

Guernsey bus are offering (quote) ''For existing bus licence holders pay starts at £13.14 per hour, with £16.75 per hour for any work after 18:30 and all day Sundays.'' which is more than operators in South Wales. Some will follow the money. Some people might fancy a new adventure. Some people may have links to Guernsey. Etc. etc.
There are a million reasons why people change job.

 

[MotCO]

How do you work out that? There's definitely is a shortage in South Wales. However, people will still move jobs when there's a shortage for different reasons.

Guernsey bus are offering (quote) ''For existing bus licence holders pay starts at £13.14 per hour, with £16.75 per hour for any work after 18:30 and all day Sundays.'' which is more than operators in South Wales. Some will follow the money. Some people might fancy a new adventure. Some people may have links to Guernsey. Etc. etc.
There are a million reasons why people change job.

But what is the cost of living / tax / health etc arrangements like? Would you actually be any better off if you lived and worked in Guernsey?

 

[Goldfish62]

But what is the cost of living / tax / health etc arrangements like? Would you actually be any better off if you lived and worked in Guernsey?

Don't know the specifics, but Guernsey is apparently an expensive place to live.

 

[Starmill]

I've noticed that Stagecoach are hiring quite a few bus driver trainees. Oxford in particular is a very competitive salary at £28,000 / year on a 39 hour week according to the job advert. If that's the starting salary that seems quite good.

 

[Eyersey468]

I've noticed that Stagecoach are hiring quite a few bus driver trainees. Oxford in particular is a very competitive salary at £28,000 / year on a 39 hour week according to the job advert. If that's the starting salary that seems quite good.

True but then isn't the cost of living high in Oxford?

 

[Starmill]

True but then isn't the cost of living high in Oxford?

It's certainly a difficult place to move into yes.

 

[Geordie driver]

Clearly there is no shortage in South Wales at the moment…

Attachment shows a paid for facebook advert from the South Wales Argus encouraging it’s bus driving readers to move to Guernsey and stop reading their newspaper.

Were I younger and with fewer ties I would be giving this serious consideration.

I know someone who went over ages ago, it's a bit like emigrating on a very minor scale. You might be no better off financially but the work/ life balance will be so much better for many.

Once you get established there are loads of opertunities, he still drives but not buses with wages and conditions we can only dream of. He has residency now which took a long time to establish, but he will be retiring out there.

I don't think he misses doing the last bus to Dodge City on a Friday night.

£53 to see a doctor mind.

 

[anthony263]

Clearly there is no shortage in South Wales at the moment…

Attachment shows a paid for facebook advert from the South Wales Argus encouraging it’s bus driving readers to move to Guernsey and stop reading their newspaper.

I've seen adverts in landaf North advertising for drivers for travel express west Midlands

 

[Geordie driver]

I am now seeing articles on Facebook about driver shortages in London, perhaps once it it affects those in power we might see change.

Bus companies still at a loss as to why they can't recruit and retain drivers, hammering conditions, wages and zero support continue to be the norm, why don't their staff love them?

 

[carlberry]

I am now seeing articles on Facebook about driver shortages in London, perhaps once it it affects those in power we might see change.

Bus companies still at a loss as to why they can't recruit and retain drivers, hammering conditions, wages and zero support continue to be the norm, why don't their staff love them?

I don't think a few missed buses is going to effect them much, they've already managed to ignore the Mayor's recent statement about what he's going to cut if he doesn't get the next subsidy paid. (Oddly Boris never had any trouble getting money during all the years of austerity!).
All bus companies are looking at reduced usage at the same time as greater fuel costs (either now or whenever their contract has to be renegotiated) plus staff conditions that make Amazon look attractive!

 

[Robertj21a]

There have been quite a lot of reductions in many service frequencies in London, so it's an odd time to start having driver shortages. Other parts of the country with driver shortages are attempting to run their normal (pre-Covid) timetables, so their shortages (and pressure from other driving opportunities) is a bit more understandable.

 

[Geordie driver]

plus staff conditions that make Amazon look attractive!

Indeed, a company synonymous with poor wages and conditions, yet it's still better that the buses.

 

[Wolfie]

I don't think a few missed buses is going to effect them much, they've already managed to ignore the Mayor's recent statement about what he's going to cut if he doesn't get the next subsidy paid. (Oddly Boris never had any trouble getting money during all the years of austerity!).
All bus companies are looking at reduced usage at the same time as greater fuel costs (either now or whenever their contract has to be renegotiated) plus staff conditions that make Amazon look attractive!

I have to say that if l was Sadiq Khan l might just look at closing Westminster tube station...