Bus Doors Jamming?

[DJ_K666]

When I lived in Birmingham in the mid to late 2010s it was fairly commonplace for the drivers on National Express West Midlands buses to open the doors whilst the bus was still moving but slowing to a stop and then start driving away from a stop with the door still open before closing it.

That's what I used to do in Vrighton with the Tridents and Scanias. We'd be pulling to a stand with our fingers on the button and pulling away with the close button pressed. Some doors are slower than others to operate. It was when they brought in a safety brake which meant you could not open the doors until the bus had stopped (or got below 3mph in the case of a Gemini)..
I remember back in the 80s you knew summer was coming when you saw the first bus driving with the doors open, back then it was a air valve that turned which worked them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2020 ==

Quite alot of buses seem to have a 'halt brake' and then the main handbrake - i'm not sure of the mechanical difference between the halt brake and the parking brake? If anyone else could enlighten me?

A Halt brake (or bus stop brake) keeps the vehicle stationary while you move your foot from the brake to the accelerator. It is so that the driver can maintain control. It is cancelled by tapping the accelerator. Ours have it when you raise the suspension at a stop although I just find keeping the handbrake on works just as well as our Darts don't have them and they pull away well enough on tickover.

 

[PG]

What is the difference in the interlock being on a handbrake and being connected elsewhere on the bus?

A handbrake interlock will either close the doors when the driver releases the handbrake OR not release the handbrake unless the doors are closed. Also only allows the doors to be opened if the handbrake is applied.

Another type of interlock automatically selects neutral in the gearbox whenever the doors are open.

Grampians later Olympians (122-131) had this 'feature' on the exit doors, unlike the earlier Olympians which automatically closed the exit doors once the bus was going over 5mph. Often lead to the sound of a full rev up followed by an almighty jolt if the driver attempted to pull off with the rear doors open, realised their error and closed the doors, engine still at high-ish revs and doors now closed the gearbox went into drive and sent a shudder through the bus. Not that I ever did it... ​

 

[flymo]

Ooh, do these buses have a foot switch for the door open/close control also ?

 

[CN04NRJ]

A Halt brake (or bus stop brake) keeps the vehicle stationary while you move your foot from the brake to the accelerator. It is so that the driver can maintain control. It is cancelled by tapping the accelerator. Ours have it when you raise the suspension at a stop although I just find keeping the handbrake on works just as well as our Darts don't have them and they pull away well enough on tickover.

Yep, driven plenty of buses with them - cheers for the answer but was wondering what the mechanical difference was. Where I used to work a driver left a Citaro unattended held by just the halt brake - after 5 minutes everything shut off and the bus went rolling away down a hill up and over a traffic island! Had to be recovered by a crane.

'Unattended' Cardiff bus crashes on busy road

Police attended the scene after receiving reports of an unattended bus in collision with traffic lights

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[GusB]

Perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but in years gone by the door controls could often be electrically connected to the clutch pedal. This is entirely anecdotal, but I remember one of my regular school run drivers telling me that he and a few of his colleagues were caught unawares on the odd occasion that they'd been allocated one particular coach for a private hire and hadn't realised that they were likely to decapitate someone as they sat down, pressed the clutch and wiggled the gear stick!

 

[CBlue]

Perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but in years gone by the door controls could often be electrically connected to the clutch pedal. This is entirely anecdotal, but I remember one of my regular school run drivers telling me that he and a few of his colleagues were caught unawares on the odd occasion that they'd been allocated one particular coach for a private hire and hadn't realised that they were likely to decapitate someone as they sat down, pressed the clutch and wiggled the gear stick!

An anecdote I've also come across regarding a coach which was new with a manual door converted to powered operation later in life. Push button on the dashboard opened the door and to close it you dipped the clutch!

 

[pdq]

I vaguely remember being on a private hire Leyland Leopard coach in the early 80s. I was only 8 or so so it's really quite sad that I remember this at all!
It was being driven by a member of the party (also a regular driver for the bus Co). A few times whilst on the M4 at 70+ we lost power - the engine would just rev - and the solution was for another person to lean on the door. Can't remember if it got opened first to slam it shut.

So even 40 yrs ago there was some kind of interlock between the air for the door and the pneumatic gearbox.

 

[Pat1105]

It was another thought I had as at the time the driver was getting irate with it, the other thought I had was if it had to do with the hydrolics? (bus raising up/down), as at one point he had door open bus was raised down/level to ground then as he went to move bus raised door tried to close but remained open?

Releasing the handbrake when the bus is kneeled causes the bus to raise again. Saves having to press the button. Also stops you driving around with the bus kneeled

 

[Busman84]

These door interlocks cause drivers to perhaps forget to apply handbrake and rolling away has happened a few times. If the doors operated without that these accidents perhaps would not have happened. Do all new buses have door interlocks active now when the doors are opened? Many ADL buses have had this over years as well as TFL. Elsewhere interlocks only applied if wheelchair ramp was pulled up or the bus was kneeled.

 

[PG]

Ooh, do these buses have a foot switch for the door open/close control also ?

Not sure if you're referring to the buses I mentioned in my post above yours? If so then No, non of them had a foot operated door switch - that seemed to be popular at one time with London Transport, I recall driving ex LT B15 Titans which has a foot switch for the doors.

 

[GusB]

I vaguely remember being on a private hire Leyland Leopard coach in the early 80s. I was only 8 or so so it's really quite sad that I remember this at all!
It was being driven by a member of the party (also a regular driver for the bus Co). A few times whilst on the M4 at 70+ we lost power - the engine would just rev - and the solution was for another person to lean on the door. Can't remember if it got opened first to slam it shut.

So even 40 yrs ago there was some kind of interlock between the air for the door and the pneumatic gearbox.

It's rather late/early in the day for me to be digging out books but, if I recall correctly, Edinburgh Corporation introduced a system whereby the door would only open when a particular gate on the pneumocyclic gearshift was selected. I think it also applied the handbrake, but I cannot be 100% certain. I'll have a look later on when the Amber Nectar wears off.

 

[M60lad]

I dont think all new buses have door interlocks fitted as standard as I've seen various types of vehicles being driven round Manchester area with doors open, I think it just depends on the operator and what they specify when the vehicles are ordered.

I havent seen any MMC400s being driven with doors open but I've seen some MMC200s being driven with doors open and E200, E300 & E400s.

 

[318266]

McGill's E200s (non-MMC) make a loud beep when the door doesn't shut. Noticeable on 8003 a while ago when the door closer to the windscreen would stop at a slight angle then slide past whatever was holding it back to its resting postition, but by that point the bus was already moving and it was beeping a lot.

 

[PG]

It's rather late/early in the day for me to be digging out books but, if I recall correctly, Edinburgh Corporation introduced a system whereby the door would only open when a particular gate on the pneumocyclic gearshift was selected. I think it also applied the handbrake, but I cannot be 100% certain. I'll have a look later on when the Amber Nectar wears off.

That rings a vague bell with me, sometime in my distant past I've driven a bus which had that arrangement of selecting a certain gate to operate the doors - more than likely a Leyland but as to the operator I haven't a clue as it was probably a loan vehicle.
Sounds like the engineering dept. would have liked it as it'd prevent buses sitting in gear at bus stops.
Seem to remember caution being needed not to pre-select a gear until ready to pull away to avoid closing the doors on anyone!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Stagecoach, ordinarily, do not specify door interlocks on their buses (unless they are coaches). None of our MMCs have interlocks - you can drive off with the doors open (but can only open them at less than ~2mph)

 

[zuriblue]

I vaguely remember being on a private hire Leyland Leopard coach in the early 80s. I was only 8 or so so it's really quite sad that I remember this at all!
It was being driven by a member of the party (also a regular driver for the bus Co). A few times whilst on the M4 at 70+ we lost power - the engine would just rev - and the solution was for another person to lean on the door. Can't remember if it got opened first to slam it shut.

So even 40 yrs ago there was some kind of interlock between the air for the door and the pneumatic gearbox.

It's rather late/early in the day for me to be digging out books but, if I recall correctly, Edinburgh Corporation introduced a system whereby the door would only open when a particular gate on the pneumocyclic gearshift was selected. I think it also applied the handbrake, but I cannot be 100% certain. I'll have a look later on when the Amber Nectar wears off.

The MCT/ GMT Mancunian Fleetlines had the back doors operated by selecting one gate on the SCG selector (opposite reverse) with the front doors not interlocked. I never saw anything else with a door interlock except one coach bodied Bristol RE where the gearbox was locked out when the door was open.

When I was doing my O levels the college transport was by a local coach operator who had a selection of Plaxton or Duple bodied Bedfords and they all closed the door by operating the clutch.

 

[PG]

The MCT/ GMT Mancunian Fleetlines had the back doors operated by selecting one gate on the SCG selector (opposite reverse) with the front doors not interlocked

I'm almost certain I've never driven a former Mancunian decker, still can't recall what type of bus or coach it was - advancing years

 

[galwhv69]

It happened on a 2012 Enviro 400 on the 37 that I was travelling on a good few months ago. The bus had just come NIS from the garage (Peckham Garage to Putney Heath) and was running it's first trip. The doors would open with a delay, however they took around 10-30 seconds to close and there was a loud hissing (air leak?) sound coming from the doors. That batch of E400's doesn't have front door interlocks so the driver just started driving, and around 10-30 seconds later, the doors would slam shut. They radioed Peckham via iBus and were told to isolate the bus and wait for 5 minutes which didn't help. The bus ended up running very late as it would take ages at each bus stop and was eventually taken out of service at the side of the road at Clapham Common. The driver of the bus behind thankfully saw everyone getting off and stopped to let us on. Was a very fully loaded bus to say the least!

 

[Boo_]

When doors are open some will put the drive system out of drive and some so you cant even start the bus. And new buses doors have to have a delay when you use the button over the door due to a driver breaking his neck in Wigan.

 

[py_megapixel]

McGill's E200s (non-MMC) make a loud beep when the door doesn't shut. Noticeable on 8003 a while ago when the door closer to the windscreen would stop at a slight angle then slide past whatever was holding it back to its resting postition, but by that point the bus was already moving and it was beeping a lot.

There's a couple of drivers on a local independent operator (which will remain nameless) near where I live, who have a habit of starting to pull away before they press the door close button. If the door is open while the bus is moving a repetitive beeping sound starts (presumably to warn the driver that a door is open) but of course when the bus is being driven in this manner the doors aren't closed fully by the time it sets off so this beeping goes off at every single stop.
These are also E200s.

It's no major inconvenience though; the beeping isn't very loud from the passenger area.

 

[TR673]

I've seen a coach plug door refuse to close properly, on one of TM Travel's vehicles that was itself covering for a failed Olympian. The air system was probably leaking and didn't have enough force to close the door, so the two drivers of the coach and failed bus had to try opening it and slamming it shut again for five minutes until it remained closed.

 

[Boo_]

I've seen a coach plug door refuse to close properly, on one of TM Travel's vehicles that was itself covering for a failed Olympian. The air system was probably leaking and didn't have enough force to close the door, so the two drivers of the coach and failed bus had to try opening it and slamming it shut again for five minutes until it remained closed.

if you have to hold the door in to close it has to go out of service same as if the button don't work.

 

[M60lad]

I don't know what it is with plug doors on coaches but I've ridden on quite a few whereby the driver has had to help the door close, not so bad with older coaches as if the door opened the coach would still be drivable but on modern coaches they wont move until the door is properly closed.

 

[PG]

I don't know what it is with plug doors on coaches but I've ridden on quite a few whereby the driver has had to help the door close, not so bad with older coaches as if the door opened the coach would still be drivable but on modern coaches they wont move until the door is properly closed.

I think the issue with plug doors is that they swing out from the side of the bus during opening. These days that is considered a safety risk of striking something or (more importantly) someone.
I wouldn't want to find myself in court after a plug door which I'd had difficulty closing opened and hit someone whilst the vehicle was in motion!

 

[borage]

I don't know what it is with plug doors on coaches but I've ridden on quite a few whereby the driver has had to help the door close, not so bad with older coaches as if the door opened the coach would still be drivable but on modern coaches they wont move until the door is properly closed.

This has been an issue with the Plaxton Elites on the Stagecoach X5 (Bedford - Oxford) – apparently the doors sometimes don’t close properly if the coach is leaning over due to the camber of the road.

 

[Boo_]

That be part of the interlock with the lift that does that as thinks lift is out or unsafe to open door or use lift. but like the London buses with the centre ramp

 

[duncombec]

This has been an issue with the Plaxton Elites on the Stagecoach X5 (Bedford - Oxford) – apparently the doors sometimes don’t close properly if the coach is leaning over due to the camber of the road.

And some National Express (and various subsidiaries) Caetano Levantes - if the camber is particularly uneven the safety "bolts" will not engage, and the door will reopen (and you can't take the handbrake off). Levantes also have interlock on the wheelchair lift, meaning similar issues can occur if the lift has shifted (e.g. after a large pothole) - usually a quick "out button-in button" shifts it back the necessary half inch and all is fine.

 

[PG]

This has been an issue with the Plaxton Elites on the Stagecoach X5 (Bedford - Oxford) – apparently the doors sometimes don’t close properly if the coach is leaning over due to the camber of the road.

Its been an issue with the older Plaxton Profile bodied Volvo B7R coaches too. Fortunately a door not fully closing didn't prevent them pulling away from a stop - drivers soon learnt that a bit of sharp acceleration (almost like an extended blip in the throttle) followed by equally sudden removal of foot from the accelerator would cause the door to swing forwards with enough force for it to fully engage closed - job done
VOLVO B7R Plaxton Profile Interurban - Stagecoach Bluebird Aberdeen by Mike Brocklebank, on Flickr
Flickr photo of just such a vehicle whilst covering a Megabus journey!