Bus Doors Jamming?

[kez19]

I was one of the Xplore Dundee buses today from City Centre it was one of these types: ADL Enviro200 MMC, driver was pushing his button to close the door (door stuck open) but it wasn't responding, as the journey continued the issue flared up towards near the end of journey (ending up getting another bus).

The driver had told me it has a safety lock (I know on previous buses ie Volvo B10's etc to an extent they were able to move whilst on move but before phased out safety locks were added), I understand that the safety lock is in place for safety but is there no way of a system that can override the doors? As driver even tried switching engine off to restart it to have doors close but didn't help either)

Any ideas what may have caused this as this was a first for me today and even on a "newer" bus.

 

[Contains Nuts]

If there was a way to override the door interlock then it would be pointless having it! Faults with them do happen occasionally as wiring can suffer from bad weather or water ingress, and air powered doors can be affected by faulty valves.

Issues of this nature are often difficult to diagnose if the fault is intermittent - with wiring faults something as simple as going over a pothole can cause an issue, which is then resolved by going over another pothole!

 

[christopher]

There is a halt brake override on buses, usually in a panel above the doors.

 

[kez19]

There is a halt brake override on buses, usually in a panel above the doors.

That looked like that was attempted and that was to no avail

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there was a way to override the door interlock then it would be pointless having it!

You can override it on a train too, though the policy would be that you'd have to kick the passengers off if you used it and couldn't lock the door out.

 

[kez19]

If there was a way to override the door interlock then it would be pointless having it! Faults with them do happen occasionally as wiring can suffer from bad weather or water ingress, and air powered doors can be affected by faulty valves.

Issues of this nature are often difficult to diagnose if the fault is intermittent - with wiring faults something as simple as going over a pothole can cause an issue, which is then resolved by going over another pothole!

I was just thinking as the bus was stationery and the driver tried to move (at one point), the door was not closing as the driver kept pressing the button to close but doors just kept in open position, I can understand that it could be faulty valves (as such - but then surely the vehicle should not be out?)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2020 ==

You can override it on a train too, though the policy would be that you'd have to kick the passengers off if you used it and couldn't lock the door out.

Would it have made a difference had the emergency door button was pressed?

 

[christopher]

I've had them before where the emergency exit button sticks so won't close.

 

[Mothball]

From daily experience there is countless things that can cause doors to jam, slam and fail completely. A lot buses these days have the system that means the "halt brake" won't release until the doors are shut. Some buses have switches to isolate the halt brake and get the bus back to the garage, others have a plug usually in an electrical cabinet that needs to be unplugged to move the bus. If a driver was to use these there would be consequences at most mainstream companies and if the doors fail to a point the bus is immobilised it requires a fitter to make the isolation. The same system is linked to the wheelchair ramp aswell

 

[kez19]

I've had them before where the emergency exit button sticks so won't close.

It was another thought I had as at the time the driver was getting irate with it, the other thought I had was if it had to do with the hydrolics? (bus raising up/down), as at one point he had door open bus was raised down/level to ground then as he went to move bus raised door tried to close but remained open?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2020 ==

From daily experience there is countless things that can cause doors to jam, slam and fail completely. A lot buses these days have the system that means the "halt brake" won't release until the doors are shut. Some buses have switches to isolate the halt brake and get the bus back to the garage, others have a plug usually in an electrical cabinet that needs to be unplugged to move the bus. If a driver was to use these there would be consequences at most mainstream companies and if the doors fail to a point the bus is immobilised it requires a fitter to make the isolation. The same system is linked to the wheelchair ramp aswell

Has this change a recent thing or has it been going for decades? (just not been aware - personally speaking for myself)

 

[Mothball]

It was another thought I had as at the time the driver was getting irate with it, the other thought I had was if it had to do with the hydrolics? (bus raising up/down), as at one point he had door open bus was raised down/level to ground then as he went to move bus raised door tried to close but remained open?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2020 ==



Has this change a recent thing or has it been going for decades? (just not been aware - personally speaking for myself)

I wouldn't say decades, the 2008 Volvos we have can set off with the doors open but above I think 5MPH they automatically close. If they fail to close you can still drive on. Where as I've worked on the same age Enviro 400s that have the full interlock system

 

[kez19]

I wouldn't say decades, the 2008 Volvos we have can set off with the doors open but above I think 5MPH they automatically close. If they fail to close you can still drive on. Where as I've worked on the same age Enviro 400s that have the full interlock system

Its newer technology (as such) for newer buses, totally understand.

Correct me also, the interlock system can also be applied to all buses regardless of age?, from what I witnessed on a newer bus will be implemented onto an older bus such as the Volvo Eclipse Gemini (1st generation)

 

[DJ_K666]

I've had E200s that have refused to close. My usual workaround is to hit the open button again and then they usually shut.

 

[cnjb8]

Didn't single deck Scania OmniCity buses have an issue with slamming the door really hard so much that the door comes of its hinges? There was a photo on Flickr of an Arriva Derby example in said predicament.
EDIT:
I've just found it (not my photo)

Arriva Midlands YN55 RCF - Crown Derby, Rose Hill

Having disgraced itself just minutes before, Arriva Midlands (Derby) Scania OmniCity bodied Scania CN94UB YN55 RCF stands at Rose Hill Crown Derby having worked Route 2B with it's door hanging off quite literally by a small, thin wire. This bus is renowned for having issues with its doors...

www.flickr.com

 

[kez19]

I've had E200s that have refused to close. My usual workaround is to hit the open button again and then they usually shut.

I think that was what the driver was trying to no avail

 

[M60lad]

Not to sure whether this is relevant but I know that on some of the early model Wright B7 Urban Eclipse's and Pulsars if the driver kept their finger on the door open button when the bus set off it would overide the saftey mechanism that would automatically close the doors after a certain speed enabling the driver to keep the doors open especially on a warm sunny day.

As for doors jamming I remember one harsh winter being on a Stagecoach Manchester E400 that had just come out of depot that was still that cold that the driver was having problems closing the doors once open, if I remember rightly he had to keep pushing them manualy closed, it took until it was near to Manchester before they started working properly and the bus had slightly warmed up.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't say decades, the 2008 Volvos we have can set off with the doors open but above I think 5MPH they automatically close. If they fail to close you can still drive on. Where as I've worked on the same age Enviro 400s that have the full interlock system

Also fairly common I think that taking the handbrake off closes the doors. And I think I've seen London buses with actual interlock on the rear door but this "handbrake close" on the front, or sometimes even nothing on the front.

 

[LowLevel]

Gone are the days of the Wumpty Buses in the West Midlands screeching around with the doors open on a sunny day then, usually with the passengers waiting just a foot or two away to jump off before the thing had even stopped

Much more naughty were the late 80s era coaches we went to school on. On Volvo models (I think they were Bolton Plaxton things) turning the key one notch back in the ignition would leave the vehicle fully functional but allow the door to open on the move and perhaps more concerningly disable the speedo and the limiter! I have memories of rocketing along the M54 at some stupid speed with the driver opening the door to talk to his mate as he overtook him. A bizarre feature.

 

[PeterC]

Doors? When I was young .......

Previous posts explain why I have seen bus drivers fiddling with the panel over the doors although with our local independent the mark 1 boot is the usual solution.

 

[James284]

Kez - what was the fleet no? (will be 22--)

 

[kez19]

Kez - what was the fleet no? (will be 22--)

2243 I believe

 

[CN04NRJ]

Didn't single deck Scania OmniCity buses have an issue with slamming the door really hard so much that the door comes of its hinges? There was a photo on Flickr of an Arriva Derby example in said predicament.
EDIT:
I've just found it (not my photo)

Arriva Midlands YN55 RCF - Crown Derby, Rose Hill

Having disgraced itself just minutes before, Arriva Midlands (Derby) Scania OmniCity bodied Scania CN94UB YN55 RCF stands at Rose Hill Crown Derby having worked Route 2B with it's door hanging off quite literally by a small, thin wire. This bus is renowned for having issues with its doors...

www.flickr.com

I've had that happen to me once with a Scania N94UA Artic and I know if it happening at least twice with two other drivers at my old company - one with an N270UB and another artic. Where I work now only the Volvo 7900Hs have a door interlock where the bus won't move until they're shut - the newer Wrights have a loud alarm if the doors are open with the handbrake off. Besides, it's company policy not to release the handbrake until the doors are fully closed anyway.

 

[Mothball]

I Only had the "pleasure" of working with the Scanias for a few months and before they arrived we were told the best way to repair the doors is the backheal the job to someone else. A repair method that worked without fail for me.

 

[Mojo]

Has this change a recent thing or has it been going for decades? (just not been aware - personally speaking for myself)

When I lived in Birmingham in the mid to late 2010s it was fairly commonplace for the drivers on National Express West Midlands buses to open the doors whilst the bus was still moving but slowing to a stop and then start driving away from a stop with the door still open before closing it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I lived in Birmingham in the mid to late 2010s it was fairly commonplace for the drivers on National Express West Midlands buses to open the doors whilst the bus was still moving but slowing to a stop and then start driving away from a stop with the door still open before closing it.

I think that is/was normal in most places where interlock is not fitted. Or where it's fitted to the handbrake, just to release it and drive off, with the doors closing automatically due to releasing it.

 

[kez19]

When I lived in Birmingham in the mid to late 2010s it was fairly commonplace for the drivers on National Express West Midlands buses to open the doors whilst the bus was still moving but slowing to a stop and then start driving away from a stop with the door still open before closing it.

I remember the summer months (can't remember the specific year) but it was in the 00s and at the time Travel Dundee had some of their single deckers opened whilst on the move (passengers were seated).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2020 ==

I think that is/was normal in most places where interlock is not fitted. Or where it's fitted to the handbrake, just to release it and drive off, with the doors closing automatically due to releasing it.

What is the difference in the interlock being on a handbrake and being connected elsewhere on the bus?

 

[Mojo]

I think that is/was normal in most places where interlock is not fitted. Or where it's fitted to the handbrake, just to release it and drive off, with the doors closing automatically due to releasing it.

Sadly it wasn’t, having lived in Bristol afterward I was very frustrated at how painfully slow the buses were there, partly because of this and partly because of the cash handling. I also remember in Birmingham sounding the bell with plenty of notice and the driver failing to stop at the stop as nobody was stood up; in contrast to First in Bristol who had signs everywhere warning people not to stand up until the bus was stopped at the stop.

(The exception being the dodgy bus contractor Eurotaxis that the council took on to run its subsidised network in 2007, very often running in warmer weather with the door open. I once had to intervene to help an elderly lady who was very concerned because she couldn’t ring the bell as the door was open!)

 

[CN04NRJ]

I remember the summer months (can't remember the specific year) but it was in the 00s and at the time Travel Dundee had some of their single deckers opened whilst on the move (passengers were seated).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2020 ==




What is the difference in the interlock being on a handbrake and being connected elsewhere on the bus?

Quite alot of buses seem to have a 'halt brake' and then the main handbrake - i'm not sure of the mechanical difference between the halt brake and the parking brake? If anyone else could enlighten me?

 

[L401CJF]

On most modern buses the buttons are electric which tell the air system to close the doors rather than a good old full air system.

On our 62plate e200s it was common for the door buttons to fail meaning the doors couldn't be opened or closed depending on which button failed. They didn't have halt brakes (unless you knelt the bus in which case they'd lock on) so would close automatically when you pull off. Obviously if a halt brake is fitted you won't be able to try this! They also suffered from 'sticky buttons'. Ie you would press close but the open button was sticking so it would reopen immediately, and vice versa. Had that happen a few times.

The CX05 reg Welsh commanders have full air system for the doors, but its connected in such a way that the cab door open button is inactive unless the handbrake is applied.

 

[flymo]

The E200MMC doors are, as with most systems on the bus, controlled via multiplex using a central computer and several nodes. (Don't know if these ones are Actia or Continental). The driver will simply request the doors are opened and provided all of the programmed conditions are met then the 'computer' will operate the door open solenoid and the door opens. Closing is similar but there are extra interlocks such as ramp position etc. If these are dual door then there may be a sensitive edge which would affect the exit door but if only a single door then a sensitive edge on the front door is unlikely but still an option. Warnings on the dash will indicate any interlocks in use.
This could be either an intermittent open or close switch or perhaps the ramp is not proved home (if it has one). The operator can have the door/ramp/kneeling operation and interlocks programmed to their own needs as several different options are available.

 

[kez19]

The E200MMC doors are, as with most systems on the bus, controlled via multiplex using a central computer and several nodes. (Don't know if these ones are Actia or Continental). The driver will simply request the doors are opened and provided all of the programmed conditions are met then the 'computer' will operate the door open solenoid and the door opens. Closing is similar but there are extra interlocks such as ramp position etc. If these are dual door then there may be a sensitive edge which would affect the exit door but if only a single door then that is unlikely. Warnings on the dash will indicate any interlocks in use.
This could be either an intermittent open or close switch or perhaps the ramp is not proved home (if it has one). The operator can have the door/ramp/kneeling operation and interlocks programmed to their own needs as several different options are available.

You mentioned something that I didn't mention, the driver did even try the ramp to knock it off too but even that failed.

I didn't know the buses had a computer onboard? Tell a lie I have seen a "computer" onboard to do with the CCTV and the last time I seen that on display it was something like Windows 7!