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Building on flood-plains

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DaveNewcastle

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The Government has a policy which applies to all Planning decicions and aims to minimise the risk of flooding to new properties. It is called the 'sequential test' and is found in the national Planning Policy Framework. The oponing sections of this technical guide gives a good summary of the policy :- https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/6000/2115548.pdf

In short, a development should be tested against the known flood risks, and only where no suitable site is available, should a development consider locations with progressively higher probability of risk.
The Sequential and Exception Tests

3.
As set out in the National Planning Policy Framework, the aim of the Sequential Test is to steer new development to areas with the lowest probability of flooding. The flood zones (see table 1) are the starting point for this sequential approach. Zones 2 and 3 are shown on the flood map1 with Flood Zone 1 being all the land falling outside Zones 2 and 3. These flood zones refer to the probability of sea and river flooding only, ignoring the presence of existing defences.
4.
Strategic Flood Risk Assessments (see paragraphs 7-8) refine information on the probability of flooding, taking other sources of flooding and the impacts of climate change (see paragraphs 11-15) into account. They provide the basis for applying the Sequential Test, on the basis of the flood zones
This policy does not prohibit development, but provides a mechanism for identifying and managing risk and minimising planning approval of high risk developments.
 
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ainsworth74

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Stealing our jobs and coming over to take our benefits are fundamentally contradictory claims, which is what makes the whole thing hilarious...

Actually it's not. I don't have a figure to hand but a high number of benefits claimants are in work and claiming things like Working Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit, Child Benefit, Disability Living Allowance/Personal Independence Payment or maybe Attendance Allowance. But if you take 'benefits' to be Jobseekers Allowance, which in the media seems to be the case (despite the JSA bill being one of the smaller benefits bills), then sure the two are contradictory claims but taking it as the benefits system at large they most certainly are not.
 

fowler9

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Actually it's not. I don't have a figure to hand but a high number of benefits claimants are in work and claiming things like Working Tax Credit, Child Tax Credit, Child Benefit, Disability Living Allowance/Personal Independence Payment or maybe Attendance Allowance. But if you take 'benefits' to be Jobseekers Allowance, which in the media seems to be the case (despite the JSA bill being one of the smaller benefits bills), then sure the two are contradictory claims but taking it as the benefits system at large they most certainly are not.

That is spot on mate but I think the point is that if people move to Britain and get a job they have obviously moved to work not to claim benefits. The fact that they are still entitled to benefits says more about the poor wages paid in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. I do agree that the media and government seem to make a big deal out of people on JSA who make up a tiny portion of the benefits bill, people fraudulently claiming it being an even tinier number.
 

Amberley54

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That is spot on mate but I think the point is that if people move to Britain and get a job they have obviously moved to work not to claim benefits. The fact that they are still entitled to benefits says more about the poor wages paid in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. I do agree that the media and government seem to make a big deal out of people on JSA who make up a tiny portion of the benefits bill, people fraudulently claiming it being an even tinier number.

On the subject of economic migrants, Figures mentioned on radio this morning confirm that less than 100 migrants have come to UK from Romania and Bulgaria since beginning of January
.
I suspect the Daily Hate Mail and Express wont be carrying that on their front pages on Monday
 

fowler9

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On the subject of economic migrants, Figures mentioned on radio this morning confirm that less than 100 migrants have come to UK from Romania and Bulgaria since beginning of January
.
I suspect the Daily Hate Mail and Express wont be carrying that on their front pages on Monday

Well you can't expect the truth off the Daily Heil. The people of Romania have been travelling to Spain and other countries for ages. I seriously doubted they would suddenly decide to come to Liverpool. Perhaps London will see more but then they see more of every race and nationality. If people there don't like it they can move somewhere where the government don't help to focus all of the jobs and spending.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The title of this thread refers to the building of properties on flood-plains and much as a debate on immigration can be of interest, that particular subject is extremely an off-thread matter and should be the subject of a separate dedicated thread opened to cater for such discussions.
 

fowler9

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The title of this thread refers to the building of properties on flood-plains and much as a debate on immigration can be of interest, that particular subject is extremely an off-thread matter and should be the subject of a separate dedicated thread opened to cater for such discussions.

I understand what you are saying Paul and I apologise for my part in drifting off topic. Getting back on to the subject of building on flood plains my ex's family live right on the banks of the Mersey in Warrington yet at the same time their house is seen as being at less risk of flooding than their previous property further away from the river!
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The Government has a policy which applies to all Planning decisions and aims to minimise the risk of flooding to new properties. It is called the 'sequential test' and is found in the national Planning Policy Framework. In short, a development should be tested against the known flood risks, and only where no suitable site is available, should a development consider locations with progressively higher probability of risk.
This policy does not prohibit development, but provides a mechanism for identifying and managing risk and minimising planning approval of high risk developments.

I wonder if the insurance industry takes such matters as this in mind when they make a determination as to the level of premiums to be paid in areas of high flood risk. I understand that an agreement was reached between Government and that industry that insurance cover would be made available for residential properties (but not commercial companies) for a certain period of time until the matter was debated again. Has anyone any further information on this particular matter ?
 

fowler9

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I wonder if the insurance industry takes such matters as this in mind when they make a determination as to the level of premiums to be paid in areas of high flood risk. I understand that an agreement was reached between Government and that industry that insurance cover would be made available for residential properties (but not commercial companies) for a certain period of time until the matter was debated again. Has anyone any further information on this particular matter ?

I'm sure I have read recently about people who can't insure their property or are paying much higher premiums because of flood risk. I think that the government maybe should come to some kind of agreement with the insurance industry since a lot of flooding seems to come down to policy. Here is a link to an interesting article about the flooding we seem to be suffering more frequently.

http://www.monbiot.com/2014/01/13/drowning-in-money/
 

chorleyjeff

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There is no doubt in my mind, not for a second, that houses are not being build in order to keep house prices up. There are huge swathes of brown field sites in Liverpool which are being left empty. A good area of which is off Smithdown Road if anyone knows that area. It currently looks like some kind of comedy park.

As in, say, Burnley there is no real housing shortage in Liverpool. People want to live in "nice" areas from where they can travel daily to work. I guess the people of Liverpool would generally prefer not to live on brownfield sites surrounded by the usual detritus of post industrialisation and given the chance would "flee" to
greener more pleasant surrounding areas. Much the same as people in other old industrial/commercial prefer the greener more spacious suburbs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The evidence to back up your suspicion is the fact that the big volume house builders ' land banks have been growing steadily over the past five years, but they refuse to develop if they have to include any significant affordable housing in the development and /or the planning authority requires them to provide any meaningful benefit to the local community via section 108 payments.

Tthey instead bully and blackmail local planning authorities into granting permission on unnecessary greenfield sites for yet more 'executive' developments - the most wasteful type of residential development that contributes nothing to resolving our mounting crisis.

Builders are in business to make money for shareholders. If they didn't run the business for the benefit of the shareholders they would be failing in their primary responsibility. If it is more profitable to keep land undeveloped as land values increase than build houses and sell them and the land at current values then that is what they will do. Perhaps public bodies could be organised to have building land CPOd and then contract to have houses built on that land and sell on at cost price. Perhaps that would increase supply. Of course influential people who would see the value of land assets would howl at the injustice of being robbed by the state - just think of the Daily Mail headlines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
There was a "mini-ice age" for a period of time in the last millennium when "frost fairs" were held on the frozen waters of the River Thames, just to give one example.

Indeed yes. But wasn't the Thames much wider and slower flowing in
London than today's constricted channel making it more likely that ice would develop. But I agreere there was a mini ice age. And before that there were vineyards in what is now Hampshire.
I have a feeling that there is much money to be made from global warning research funded by people with an interest in talking it up. Truly independent vigorous research by disinterested and very bright academics into the subject would be most welcome - but who would pay?
 

fowler9

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As in, say, Burnley there is no real housing shortage in Liverpool. People want to live in "nice" areas from where they can travel daily to work. I guess the people of Liverpool would generally prefer not to live on brownfield sites surrounded by the usual detritus of post industrialisation and given the chance would "flee" to
greener more pleasant surrounding areas. Much the same as people in other old industrial/commercial prefer the greener more spacious suburbs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Builders are in business to make money for shareholders. If they didn't run the business for the benefit of the shareholders they would be failing in their primary responsibility. If it is more profitable to keep land undeveloped as land values increase than build houses and sell them and the land at current values then that is what they will do. Perhaps public bodies could be organised to have building land CPOd and then contract to have houses built on that land and sell on at cost price. Perhaps that would increase supply. Of course influential people who would see the value of land assets would howl at the injustice of being robbed by the state - just think of the Daily Mail headlines.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed yes. But wasn't the Thames much wider and slower flowing in
London than today's constricted channel making it more likely that ice would develop. But I agreere there was a mini ice age. And before that there were vineyards in what is now Hampshire.
I have a feeling that there is much money to be made from global warning research funded by people with an interest in talking it up. Truly independent vigorous research by disinterested and very bright academics into the subject would be most welcome - but who would pay?

Well there is most definitely a social housing shortage. You really have to see this area by Smithdown Road. They have flattened several streets of terraced housing, it has been grassed over with fences around the grassed areas and the roads are all still in place. It is within walking distance of Edge Hill station and right next to one of the cities busiest bus routes. There is a Lidl and an Asda down the road and loads of nice little pubs. If there is a good reason for property not being built on this land I haven't heard it.

Oh, and it is on a hill, most definitely not a flood plain. It must be prime land and worth a fortune. Mind you, planning isn't exactly a strong point of our local council.
 
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