Buggies on trains

[SS4]

All common sense - but I suspect MOST parents are already doing that. You simply don't notice them.

Hit the nail on the head there, unfortunately these are the people who are always shouting the loudest and since the media love a good moan their opinions are picked up whereas opposing opinions are discarded. The big three parts which make a story newsworthy are: Death/Injury, Locality and Rarity.

I don't have kids but I am aware that, wherever possible any reasonable person will avoid the commuter trains (including the commuters given half a chance!) so if there is a buggy on a service then it's nigh on unavoidable. Everyone has a duty to ensure the passageways and exits remain clear (it is a fire risk as has been pointed out) - whether you have a unfolded buggy, a rucksack or even a model replica of Napoleon's Armée du Nord although I've not seen it on a train but I have just been watching red dwarf

With every right you have there is a responsibility - you have the right to take buggies on a train and you have the responsibility to minimize the disruption it causes. You have to the right to travel when you like, but you also have the responsibility to ensure that anyone else (within reason) can travel when they like.

Mumsnet, as with most internet communities is a single issue site which have proliferated with the internet. Just like this site is unlikely to say road travel is much better than rail travel, mumsnet are unlikely to state that this mother was in the wrong, especially since it is overwhelmingly likely that the story was embezzled and distorted to enhance her opinion. Selection bias is rife

Edit: What annoys me is when it is obvious that care has not been taken. If someone with a buggy hits my ankle because there wasn't enough room in the aisle (I have big feet and first class quiet zone is often deserted) then that's my fault. If someone rams me when it is clear I am held up by someone in front than that is simply rude.

It is also a pet hate when anyone simply stops abruptly and have the daring to blame me to running into the back on them! Stopping distances are in the highway code, not the pedestrian code!

 

[Wolfie]

Wow! Given my first experience of a 'buggy' incident on a 313 to Moorgate, another one this morning.

First a lady got on with a buggy/pram and, as I was on a later train - off peak, it was pretty empty. She therefore put the buggy (and stood with it) to the far side of the vestibule (after a while these doors are never used again) so it wasn't in the way of anyone. She looked like she was initially going to fold it, but to be honest there was no need.

A few stops on and another got on. Another well dressed (spitting image of Fiona Philips) lady with a pram. I was in the carriage with the fold up seats for wheelchairs and what happened next was amazing.

She literally poked her head around and said 'Excuse me. I am not sure if you're aware but you're in the area reserved for buggies and you have to move'. The three people, including two elderly people, looked rather shocked but clearly too nervous to say anything or actually dispute her claim. I was sitting at the end of the carriage and even I could see the sign saying 'for wheelchairs' with a disclaimer that bicycles can use it WHEN NOT NEEDED by a wheelchair. Mention of buggies or prams? Nothing.

She then sat down and the other mother looked on rather shocked. I felt I couldn't step in, as to tell this arrogant mother that she can't tell people to move to take up the space for three people with a pram, would then look like an attack on the other mother (she hadn't folded her buggy either).

When I got up to alight at Old Street, I realised she'd taken the baby out anyway and the pram was just sitting there in front of the two tip-up seats. The other couple had moved, but now couldn't sit together.

I really, really, wanted to say something. She must have seen the sticker. How can she think that a buggy now takes priority over people - especially the elderly!

I'd love for someone to pull the CCTV from that train - but sadly there wouldn't be audio to fully appreciate the arrogance this woman demonstrated.

I have seen similar on London buses - mothers, many far from Chavs in appearance, coming out with disgusting language when told to fold their buggy and move it as the wheelchair space their buggy is occupying is needed for someone actually in a wheelchair! Respect to at least one driver who, when spoken to like that, openned the back door and clearly stated that the bus would be going nowhere until the 'lady' in question and her buggy dismounted!
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Had a run in with a mother with a buggy the size of an X5 this morning, at Old Street.

I was in a real rush to get to work (15 minutes late for a meeting) so I was making fast pace and saw her at the top of the stairs going down from the FCC platforms. I went past and started down, and she called at me. I turned around and she said 'Can you help me?'.. no please, no smile - and a look of real hate as if she was thinking 'how dare that **** leave me here'.

I apologised and said I was in a real hurry, while thinking I'd never be able to carry the thing downstairs anyway (nor would she be able to easily get it up the escalator - so perhaps folding it down might have been a better idea) and another man stepped in and offered to help. She didn't thank him either, but possibly did when they got to the bottom - I was gone by then.

I feel angry, and perhaps a little embarrassed that I didn't help. However, with an attitude like hers, I shouldn't care at all. Nobody asked her to travel to an inaccessible station with a huge off-road tractor sized buggy!

Anyway, I feel a little better for this confession! I would normally help anyone, but you can't just demand everyone around you stops to help!!

When I first moved to London there were signs on every tube escalator insisting, for health and safety reasons, that all pushchairs were folded - must look to see if they are still there....

 

[ANorthernGuard]

As a father of young kids and a very poor buggy driver (can drive a car no problem but these DAMN buggy contraptions) I can see it from both sides of the coin, I do try to travel off peak if I have to use my own services with the buggy, when this isn't possible I do try and either fold OR put it out of the way as much as possible (thats after 10 mins of trying to collapse the flamin thing). before I had kids I was in the same frame of mind (damn buggies/pushchairs etc.) but the main problem like has already been said is the lack of common sense in design from 80's/90's stock that I work til the latest all mod con stock, I find ex FNW 150's are the best in my neck of the woods as the bike rack area is plenty big enough for bikes and pushchairs/prams, maybe in the future someone with common sense in the design departments will come up with a better solution, until then we all have to suffer.

 

[The_Stig]

Had a run in with a mother with a buggy the size of an X5 this morning, at Old Street.

I was in a real rush to get to work (15 minutes late for a meeting) so I was making fast pace and saw her at the top of the stairs going down from the FCC platforms. I went past and started down, and she called at me. I turned around and she said 'Can you help me?'.. no please, no smile - and a look of real hate as if she was thinking 'how dare that **** leave me here'.

I apologised and said I was in a real hurry, while thinking I'd never be able to carry the thing downstairs anyway (nor would she be able to easily get it up the escalator - so perhaps folding it down might have been a better idea) and another man stepped in and offered to help. She didn't thank him either, but possibly did when they got to the bottom - I was gone by then.

I feel angry, and perhaps a little embarrassed that I didn't help. However, with an attitude like hers, I shouldn't care at all. Nobody asked her to travel to an inaccessible station with a huge off-road tractor sized buggy!

Anyway, I feel a little better for this confession! I would normally help anyone, but you can't just demand everyone around you stops to help!!

Wow, sounds like a demand.

 

[colpepper]

What we need are better designed trains where the emphasis is not on capacity but provision of proper accommodation fit for the specific purpose of users. Other countries can do this so why can't we?

I completely agree. Since the days railways stopped being a common carrier there's been a gradual restriction of train space for passenger luggage. In the traction haulage era I took a bike almost everywhere with me, put it in the guards/mail area and that was that. Proper, joined up transport.

Now trains are crammed with seating for maximum revenue earning capability and luggage, bikes, buggies, large rusksacks, anything bigger than a laptop in fact, seen as anti-social. Any space there is usually a converted seating area with chains rubbing upholstery and clothing and insufficient in size.
It sounds like the inspector was taking the chance to air a few of his own prejudices. I'd have backed the woman 100%.