Buggies, luggage and bicycles

[Ediswan]

I have seen an alternative use for a buggy at a station.

Stevenage station, northbound train at platform 4. A couple reach the bottom of the stairs just as the doors are closing. No problem. He runs forward and wedges the front wheels of the*occupied* buggy in the doors to stop them closing.

 

[The_Stig]

Well lets see:

One, some prams don't fold down much more, they retain the same footprint yet at a lower height.

Two, prams that do fold down often split into two pieces meaning 3 trips on and off a train i.e. folded wheel section on board, folded baby compartment put on board, oh, baby put on board with baby bag. So during that scenario it leaves a newborn at the mercy of either itself or some random on board the train or platform. Not to mention the parent would have to do this whilst people are trying to alight and board and it would take some time. Whilst no doubt receiving zero help from all those squabbling to get seats.

All the separate bits would have to be secured when on board. Again, leaving a newborn unattended and not in the safety of a pram but slumped on a seat at which someone would demand to see they babies ticket for them to be allowed said seat.

This would then lead a thread on how bad parents are on board trains because they left their child to themselves crying just so someone could have the satisfaction of knowing the pram was folded but how they caused their train to be delayed.

Four, repeat step two when getting off.

If we are to ban prams then bikes, luggage then everything else should be banned? If fold-able buggies allowed only then fold-able bikes should be too. If bikes get their own section why can't buggies?

Where will it all stop?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Why arent buggies and large luggage banned on certain trains like bicycles are?

Because a buggy is needed for a baby/small child. There are no restrictions on who or what type of person can travel, this includes babies and small children who actually need them, they should however, have some sort of reserving system in place for large or un-foldable buggies that take up large amounts of room. The fold up ones that can fit on the luggage rack or shelf are fine. As for luggage, why can't the TM at least restrict it to storage spaces allocated, overhead racks, shelving, end of voyager carriage, luggage van. There shouldn't be a restriction on luggage otherwise people wouldn't use the train!

 

[AlexS]

Well lets see:

One, some prams don't fold down much more, they retain the same footprint yet at a lower height.

Two, prams that do fold down often split into two pieces meaning 3 trips on and off a train i.e. folded wheel section on board, folded baby compartment put on board, oh, baby put on board with baby bag. So during that scenario it leaves a newborn at the mercy of either itself or some random on board the train or platform. Not to mention the parent would have to do this whilst people are trying to alight and board and it would take some time. Whilst no doubt receiving zero help from all those squabbling to get seats.

All the separate bits would have to be secured when on board. Again, leaving a newborn unattended and not in the safety of a pram but slumped on a seat at which someone would demand to see they babies ticket for them to be allowed said seat.

This would then lead a thread on how bad parents are on board trains because they left their child to themselves crying just so someone could have the satisfaction of knowing the pram was folded but how they caused their train to be delayed.

Four, repeat step two when getting off.

If we are to ban prams then bikes, luggage then everything else should be banned? If fold-able buggies allowed only then fold-able bikes should be too. If bikes get their own section why can't buggies?

Where will it all stop?

It's a personal choice to have a stupid, heavy contraption the size of a small car. Having travelled around the country with 3 young children (siblings in this case but as the older brother I copped for buggy duty) there are perfectly suitable, sensible buggies around that don't take up a ridiculous amount of space. They may not be as 'cool' among young mothers but they do the job and are perfect for public transport.

It is no different to the mobility scooter question - you may need your scooter to get around, but if it's too large it's not getting on the train, and neither are you if you can't possibly get out of it.

Come suitably equipped for the journey is the answer. And yes, cyclists and passengers with excessive luggage and personal belongings, and indeed things like electric wheelchairs and scooters can and do get refused from busy trains, alas. It's not exclusive to buggies.

 

[90019]

Well lets see:

One, some prams don't fold down much more, they retain the same footprint yet at a lower height.

Two, prams that do fold down often split into two pieces meaning 3 trips on and off a train i.e. folded wheel section on board, folded baby compartment put on board, oh, baby put on board with baby bag. So during that scenario it leaves a newborn at the mercy of either itself or some random on board the train or platform. Not to mention the parent would have to do this whilst people are trying to alight and board and it would take some time. Whilst no doubt receiving zero help from all those squabbling to get seats.

All the separate bits would have to be secured when on board. Again, leaving a newborn unattended and not in the safety of a pram but slumped on a seat at which someone would demand to see they babies ticket for them to be allowed said seat.

This would then lead a thread on how bad parents are on board trains because they left their child to themselves crying just so someone could have the satisfaction of knowing the pram was folded but how they caused their train to be delayed.

Four, repeat step two when getting off.?

Surely the obvious solution here is that if you know you're going to be using public transport, don't buy a buggy or pram the size of a small car that can't be folded?
Instead, find one that's suitable for taking on public transport. Clearly they do exist, since there are plenty of people out there who have them and manage to use them perfectly well and with little or no fuss.

 

[Sloppyjag]

Or a better question - why does our current rolling stock not adequately cope for these items that people wish to bring with them.

I remember when all trains had guards vans and could easily transport them.

I vaguely recall travelling on West Highland Line service (or could have been a Far North Line service) in the 80's and seeing what must have been about 20 to 30 bikes stacked in the guards van. Does anyone else have any recollection of this or is it just my senile old brain at work?

 

[LE Greys]

Or a better question - why does our current rolling stock not adequately cope for these items that people wish to bring with them.

I remember when all trains had guards vans and could easily transport them.

Because Gold Cards on seats are worth more and there aren't enough of them.

There are other factors. Firstly, there are virtually no station porters left, so collecting and distributing the luggage is entirely up to passengers. Secondly, passengers don't use vans even when they are available because they want their luggage near them so they can keep an eye on it (I do use vans, but that's another matter). Thirdly, people seem to be incapable of loading things into racks safely and stably. Fourthly, although some guards are very good about getting stuff into vans, many have far too many other things to worry about. Finally, vans were also used to transport parcels, and this is less important with the death of Red Star.

I for one would like to see vans return and better attempts to collect luggage by station staff, but this is not likely to happen any time soon.

Also, just as an oddity, my trunk once got a cab ride when I was travelling back to Aberdeen on a wedged 158 from Edinburgh.

 

[GodAtum]

It's a personal choice to have a stupid, heavy contraption the size of a small car. Having travelled around the country with 3 young children (siblings in this case but as the older brother I copped for buggy duty) there are perfectly suitable, sensible buggies around that don't take up a ridiculous amount of space. They may not be as 'cool' among young mothers but they do the job and are perfect for public transport.

It is no different to the mobility scooter question - you may need your scooter to get around, but if it's too large it's not getting on the train, and neither are you if you can't possibly get out of it.

Come suitably equipped for the journey is the answer. And yes, cyclists and passengers with excessive luggage and personal belongings, and indeed things like electric wheelchairs and scooters can and do get refused from busy trains, alas. It's not exclusive to buggies.

Surely the obvious solution here is that if you know you're going to be using public transport, don't buy a buggy or pram the size of a small car that can't be folded?
Instead, find one that's suitable for taking on public transport. Clearly they do exist, since there are plenty of people out there who have them and manage to use them perfectly well and with little or no fuss.

I agree. It's the same with mothers and 4x4s. You have only 1 kid, so dont go complaining to me when your car is too big to park in a car parking space.

I dont want to ban luggage and prams all the times. They only really need to be banned during peak service.

 

[blacknight]

Possibly a rant...but what gets me is when one particular female guard on East Coast wanted to make sure I had a reservation for bike to be put in the DVT which was empty; this happened on two separate occasions...but the train was to leave in just over 6 or 7 mins, but with a 10 minute queue in the ticket office.

Would have thought you would have learnt after first occasion your bike was refused but to make same "mistake" twice means you are either hard of learning or think your so special that regulations everyone else as to obey dont apply to you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Possibly a rant...DVT was empty of bikes and if somebody wanted to put luggage in there - sure, no reservation needed! Bike? No - sod off to the ticket office where you definately will miss my train.

Just because DVT is empty at Kings Cross station How do you know that bikes are booked to join at intermediate stations along the route. Say for instance if Edinburgh train departs & each station it stops at along the route puts an unreserved bike in DVT, all spaces would be filled before Newcastle & you would be none to happy if you were sat at Newcastle with bike you had reserved only to be told sorry mate cannot get your booked bike on as DVT is full.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Possibly a rant...So watch out if you are on east coast as you might need to dodge this absolute haggered old witch!

No IMO just the attitude of spoilt brat who who cannot get their own way.

 

[Eagle]

I have seen an alternative use for a buggy at a station.

Stevenage station, northbound train at platform 4. A couple reach the bottom of the stairs just as the doors are closing. No problem. He runs forward and wedges the front wheels of the*occupied* buggy in the doors to stop them closing.

And in doing so, he's committed a byelaw offence.

No person shall move, operate, obstruct, stop or in any other way interfere with any automatic closing door, train, or any other equipment on the railway except:

• in an emergency, by means of any equipment on or near which there is a notice indicating that it is intended to be used in an emergency; or
• any equipment intended for the use of passengers in that way in normal operating circumstances.

 

[The Ham]

Surely the obvious solution here is that if you know you're going to be using public transport, don't buy a buggy or pram the size of a small car that can't be folded?
Instead, find one that's suitable for taking on public transport. Clearly they do exist, since there are plenty of people out there who have them and manage to use them perfectly well and with little or no fuss.

We have two buggies, one which is fairly large and one which folds down so it can be stored on the overhead rack (as long as there's not too many dividing sections).

Which do we take on the train, both. Why, because although the little one fits on the train a lot better the larger one is a lot easier to get on and off the train (larger wheels and longer wheel base).

We however only use the bigger one on services which are not very busy (fortunate location of local station means our trains are fairly empty for a few stops either side of our station even in the peak hours).

 

[dstrat]

Why the disrespectful attribution to an EC Guard doing her job?

Bicycle reservations are compulsory on EC so that those wishing to travel will have a guaranteed space at the station where they join the train.

There are some other conditions as well:

Perhaps I did not clarify the hugely, hugely disrespectful and rude manner in which she went around in telling me so. These are strong words but I don't think I've ever been treated in such a rude manner somebody providing a public service.

Reservations may be compulsory by the book but why not show some discretion? There were no bikes on board when it left. Does she not have a itinerary of what bikes were going to get on? Even when I said I'll secure it to the side out of the way rather than use spaces - nope, not interested, just sod off and get your reservation.

Besides whilst I can't account for who was going to get on, this was a midday train and I can't say I remember a time when I've got on or off and the bike racks were full. Even if this was the case, again why not show discretion and just allow somebody to put there bike somewhere in the massive chasm of space that is available in the DVT. I don't know if you've ever been inside a DVT but unless somebody wanted to load a couple of small elephants in there - you ain't going to run out of space anytime soon.

Would have thought you would have learnt after first occasion your bike was refused but to make same "mistake" twice means you are either hard of learning or think your so special that regulations everyone else as to obey dont apply to you.

Well sometimes my plans perhaps aren't as slow as yours. I need to get on a train and go places. As it happens, when I haven't had a reservation the other times this has happened, I'm just waved on. If my bike then got nicked - its my responsibility. I'm fine with that.

As it happens as well, my journey doesn't start or end at an east coast station and the majority of the time I can't get a bike reservation for their trains from the other stations that I would have to use at the start of my journey.

No IMO just the attitude of spoilt brat who who cannot get their own way.

So I'm a spoilt brat because I can't put my bike in an empty train carriage? Sure pal, move along.

It's just a shame when people such as this guard have an absolute absence of common bloody sense.

 

[eastdyke]

Perhaps I did not clarify the hugely, hugely disrespectful and rude manner in which she went around in telling me so. These are strong words but I don't think I've ever been treated in such a rude manner somebody providing a public service.

Reservations may be compulsory by the book but why not show some discretion? There were no bikes on board when it left. Does she not have a itinerary of what bikes were going to get on? Even when I said I'll secure it to the side out of the way rather than use spaces - nope, not interested, just sod off and get your reservation.

Besides whilst I can't account for who was going to get on, this was a midday train and I can't say I remember a time when I've got on or off and the bike racks were full. Even if this was the case, again why not show discretion and just allow somebody to put there bike somewhere in the massive chasm of space that is available in the DVT. I don't know if you've ever been inside a DVT but unless somebody wanted to load a couple of small elephants in there - you ain't going to run out of space anytime soon.

....

Clearly the guard should not have been rude.
The guard probably has no bike schedule, the EC booking system would take care of capacity issues but cannot do so if any guard should allow random walk ups.
I appreciate the elephantine caverns in the EC DVT but nonetheless to carry a bike in a non designated space could result in a bad result for the guard.

Answer is simple - book the bike!

 

[Greenback]

You aren't coming across too well dstrat. You do seem to be saying, in essence, that because you have to go places, the conditions of bike carriage should be ignored at all times. And because you didn't get your way, and the member of staff wouldn't agree to your securing the bike yourself in anothe rpart of the DVT, they are rude and disrespectful. Sorry, but that's the way I read it.

 

[blacknight]

Reservations may be compulsory by the book but why not show some discretion? There were no bikes on board when it left. Does she not have a itinerary of what bikes were going to get on? Even when I said I'll secure it to the side out of the way rather than use spaces - nope, not interested, just sod off and get your reservation.

Besides whilst I can't account for who was going to get on, this was a midday train and I can't say I remember a time when I've got on or off and the bike racks were full. Even if this was the case, again why not show discretion and just allow somebody to put there bike somewhere in the massive chasm of space that is available in the DVT. I don't know if you've ever been inside a DVT but unless somebody wanted to load a couple of small elephants in there - you ain't going to run out of space anytime soon.

DVT might have space of Dr Whos Tardis inside but only carry 5 bikes in racks provided-as for rest of space in DVT that soon taken up if you have a group of passengers with large number of cases like when University students are migrating between home & university
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Reservations may be compulsory by the book but why not show some discretion? There were no bikes on board when it left. Does she not have a itinerary of what bikes were going to get on?.

No she don't-Thats way you are able to go to ticket office & reserve your bike, booking clerk can then access the system to see if they is space to get your bike on the train & by doing so reduce number of spaces remaining in system by one.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Reservations may be compulsory by the book but why not show some discretion?.

Maybe be next time if you are only going 1 station down the line if you ask nicely & don't go name calling but she still as the right to say No.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's just a shame when people such as this guard have an absolute absence of common bloody sense.

So guard should ignore company policy just for you.
Reserving your cycle

Please be sure to reserve your cycle onto the train of your choice before you travel, as we will not carry your cycle unless it has been reserved. --- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So I'm a spoilt brat because I can't put my bike in an empty train carriage? Sure pal, move along.

Not nice being called names is it? but sometimes truth hurts carry on in this manner & before long you will be stamping your feet because you cannot get your own way try to keep your toys in the pram.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So watch out if you are on east coast as you might need to dodge this absolute haggered old witch!

On another point are you a self appointed Witch Finder General & have any evidence of witchcraft?
If the answer is no you will have to hope see dont do a Lord McA on you & consult her legal team as you appear to have defamed her.
So if theres an East Coast guard of female gender & over the age of 21 reading this I urge you to seek legal advice & take him for all he is worth up to & including the bike.

 

[The_Stig]

It's a personal choice to have a stupid, heavy contraption the size of a small car. Having travelled around the country with 3 young children (siblings in this case but as the older brother I copped for buggy duty) there are perfectly suitable, sensible buggies around that don't take up a ridiculous amount of space. They may not be as 'cool' among young mothers but they do the job and are perfect for public transport.

It is no different to the mobility scooter question - you may need your scooter to get around, but if it's too large it's not getting on the train, and neither are you if you can't possibly get out of it.

Come suitably equipped for the journey is the answer. And yes, cyclists and passengers with excessive luggage and personal belongings, and indeed things like electric wheelchairs and scooters can and do get refused from busy trains, alas. It's not exclusive to buggies.

Hmm, still haven't answered the point I was making; is a mother supposed to leave her infant alone whilst she man-handles a 'perfectly manageable' folded buggy into a safe position on the train? Have you never had something you had to go out for during a time you know is going to be inconvenient but it has to be taken care of?

Surely the obvious solution here is that if you know you're going to be using public transport, don't buy a buggy or pram the size of a small car that can't be folded?
Instead, find one that's suitable for taking on public transport. Clearly they do exist, since there are plenty of people out there who have them and manage to use them perfectly well and with little or no fuss.

You can't put a baby in a buggy, they need to be 6 months plus or the buggy must be able to lie fully flat. And, again, who will be left 'holding the baby' whilst its folded and stowed? Folding and putting away is pretty easy if there are at least 2 of you there.

So we ban people that don't drive with buggies/prams at peak times? Nonsense.

I agree. It's the same with mothers and 4x4s. You have only 1 kid, so dont go complaining to me when your car is too big to park in a car parking space.

I dont want to ban luggage and prams all the times. They only really need to be banned during peak service.

So you want to ban people who don't have the use of a car getting places that they may need to get urgently?

 

[northwichcat]

On another point are you a self appointed Witch Finder General & have any evidence of witchcraft?

If the answer is no you will have to hope see dont do a Lord McA on you & consult her legal team as you appear to have defamed her.

So if theres an East Coast guard of female gender & over the age of 21 reading this I urge you to seek legal advice & take him for all he is worth up to & including the bike.

While I agree that the original statement isn't one that should have been made, I do think the word 'witch' is widely used to mean a horrible woman opposed to one who practices witchcraft, in the same way using a certain word for a female dog against someone isn't accusing them of being of being a Labrador.

Comparing the comment made to accusations actually naming Lord McA is going over the top.

 

[reb0118]

And, again, who will be left 'holding the baby' whilst its folded and stowed?

I am sure that one of the house maids could be delegated to assist Nanny in these matters. I do realise, however, that not all households have Nannies but cheap au pairs are now readily available especially since the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Folding and putting away is pretty easy if there are at least 2 of you there.

Quite, see above. It must be said that I do not often involve myself in such domestic matters. These are rightly the province of Mother.

 

[Temple Meads]

what gets me is when one particular female guard on East Coast wanted to make sure I had a reservation for bike to be put in the DVT which was empty;

What does the said guard being female have to do with anything?

 

[MacRae13]

Use discretion, blah, blah, blah.

Why do people 'expect' discretion to be used for THEM. Conditions of carriage and rules are for everyone - not everyone except you.

Having driven service buses and worked on longer distance coaches you meet plenty of them.

My sister travelled all over the world with an infant son and a pushchair without discretionary methods at every stop - why someone can't travel in an appropriate manner by an appropriate means of transport is beyond me. If you're buggy is too big to get folded and carried on a train and stowed properly or you don't want to leave a seated child whilst you do it, or anything similar - you might want to reconsider your method of travel, your buggy design, or your arrangements in general so that you can travel at a time you'll have help.

Rant over. Retreating to defensive position, in full body armour :roll:

 

[bennorthyork]

Some of the tone of this thread seems to be anti-baby. I am a father of a baby and a regular train user. I would always choose to travel with my baby outside of rush hour if I can. Wouldn't everyone? So when I do travel in rush hour it is out of necessity.

We still have a pram for our baby. It serves a number of useful purposes. Firstly, for babies up to 6 months it is better for them to lie flat rather than for them to be in a buggy. It's actually bad for young babies to spend too much time sat up. It doesn't allow the bone structure to develop properly. Secondly the pram is great for storing shopping etc underneath. In fact if going away for a couple of nights I have 2 rucksacks that can both be stored under the pram. If I had a buggy then I would have 2 rucksacks as well which would need storing somewhere else. Thirdly the pram is good for changing the baby in. There are a number of times I've been on a train with my baby and needed to change her. It's been nigh on impossible to carry her through the train to the one toilet cubicle with a baby changing cubicle as it's been busy further down the train. So I change her in the pram. That's something it's very difficult to do in a buggy.

I always look for the quietest place on the train to get on with the pram. If travelling on East Coast I put the pram in the guards van whenever I can and then carry her in a sling. The pram does fold down and separate into 2 parts so I can put it in the luggage rack if needed. Which it sometimes is.

So with care and consideration for others I enjoy travelling by train with a baby and don't believe I have ever inconvenienced anyone else. Of course there are inconsiderate parents. But there are inconsiderate people in any group. It feels like there are some generalisations here that are uncalled for.

 

[blacknight]

While I agree that the original statement isn't one that should have been made, I do think the word 'witch' is widely used to mean a horrible woman opposed to one who practices witchcraft, in the same way using a certain word for a female dog against someone isn't accusing them of being of being a Labrador.

Comparing the comment made to accusations actually naming Lord McA is going over the top.

Same principle in law applies as female guard as been defamed on public forum. How would you feel if a female relative of yours had been described as below by Dstrat?merely for enforcing EC company policy regards bikes.
So watch out if you are on east coast as you might need to dodge this absolute haggered old witch!
Though Dstrat as not named there are not that many female guards on East Coast so I am sure regular traveller on East Coast might be able to work out who she is, just like Lord McA was not named in peron by the BBC. As this forum is hosting the comment is it not also liable like BBC were so I & suggest post is edited to not be so personally offence about the said guard.

 

[Bungle73]

Same principle in law applies as female guard as been defamed on public forum.
Though not named there are not that many female guards on East Coast so I am sure regular traveller on East Coast might be able to work out who she is, just like Lord McA was not named by BBC.

How would one work out who she is using only the terms "witch" and "female"? There may not be many female guards working for EC, but I'm quite sure there's enough to make identification impossible. Except maybe from her pointed hat?

I think you're being a little silly tbh. Calling someone a "witch" isn't defamatory, it's a term of abuse.

 

[blacknight]

How would one work out who she is using only the terms "witch" and "female"? There may not be many female guards working for EC, but I'm quite sure there's enough to make identification impossible. Except maybe from her pointed hat?

I think you're being a little silly tbh. Calling someone a "witch" isn't defamatory, it's a term of abuse.

Peronally I find the words witch haggered & old when used together rather defamatory are you saying it is OK then to be abusive about rail staff on this forum just for performing their duties correctly?

 

[Bungle73]

Peronally I find the words witch haggered & old when used together rather defamatory are you saying it is OK then to be abusive about rail staff on this forum just for performing their duties correctly?

So are you saying that immediately someone gets the tiniest bit insulted they should go running off to the courts?

 

[blacknight]

If subject to verbal abuse then rail staff can report it just like any other large company will state it will not tolerate its staff being subjected to any form of abuse.

 

[Bungle73]

If subject to verbal abuse then rail staff can report it just like any other large company will state it will not tolerate its staff being subjected to any form of abuse.

So what's she supposed to report? "Someone on an obscure internet forum called me..at least it might have been me...a haggered old witch"? I'm pretty sure EC, or any employer, doesn't want their employees running to them every time someone says something less than pleasant about them. TBH if you can't handle the odd insult you shouldn't be in a customer-facing role.

 

[fairysdad]

There are other factors. Firstly, there are virtually no station porters left, so collecting and distributing the luggage is entirely up to passengers. Secondly, passengers don't use vans even when they are available because they want their luggage near them so they can keep an eye on it (I do use vans, but that's another matter). Thirdly, people seem to be incapable of loading things into racks safely and stably. Fourthly, although some guards are very good about getting stuff into vans, many have far too many other things to worry about. Finally, vans were also used to transport parcels, and this is less important with the death of Red Star.

Also, how many passengers know that using a van is an option? Question: do FGW HSTs have 'luggage vans'? I thought they did in the rear sections of the locos, but a quick scour of the FGW website makes no mention of them, only the areas in the coaches themselves (I was going to use that as an example, people used to commuter trains not being aware that such a facility exists... now I'm questioning myself!).

 

[LE Greys]

Also, how many passengers know that using a van is an option? Question: do FGW HSTs have 'luggage vans'? I thought they did in the rear sections of the locos, but a quick scour of the FGW website makes no mention of them, only the areas in the coaches themselves (I was going to use that as an example, people used to commuter trains not being aware that such a facility exists... now I'm questioning myself!).

Yes they do, as do all other HSTs, in the outer end of the TGS which is universally Coach A. The inner ends of the power cars are usually locked up, but I have seen them carrying big pre-booked articles such as surfboards.

In my experience, the number of people who know about this is very low. A big sign next to where the TGS usually stops with 'HEAVY LUGGAGE HERE PLEASE' would help, but that would be awkward if the train ran reverse-formed. Even worse on EC, since that's the opposite end from the DVT and if one ran VICE the other, then even wheeling the sign up and down the platform would cause problems.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

a few people are forgetting a few simple facts...

We Are A PUBLIC Transport network

we move the old, the young, the worker, the skiver, the white european, the eurasian, the asian, the west indian, the african, etc etc etc

people have the RIGHT regardless of who they are to travel without some of the bigotry that this issue has proven exists! I as a guard sigh when someone will complain of a buggy or a wheelchair, yes some are totally unsuitable and with a bit of tact and common sense the guard like myself can give advice, to say people without buggies/wheelchairs/bikes etc shouldnt be allowed to travel at certain times of day are laughable, people pay to travel and within reason the railway should and does provide means to travel and I am so sorry that some people find themselves inconvenienced by a young mum with her kids or the wheelchair user or the cyclist, bottom line we move the WHOLE of the travelling public not just the people who use just their 2 legs and leave their nice expensive motor in the disabled bay or the parent & child space "because its easier"

rant over