Budget chains and self-service checkouts

[PHILIPE]

A few years ago when the self service check outs were starting to appear, Tesco, whom I think were the forerunner, decided to convert a store in the London area to self service only. It wasn't long before some staffed checked outs were re-instated after the number of customers decrease
After all, it's only to save staff costs at the end of the day.

 

[jon0844]

The worst 'promotion' they do has to be the one where they overprice bottles of water (to something like £2/bottle) and then say if you buy The Telegraph you get a free bottle of water.

Dave Gorman covered that issue in one the episodes of Life Is Goodish and he said the cashier refused to let him buy the paper and then leave the purchase in the shop and he tried to give the paper to other passengers on a train and found no-one wanted it until he found a boring sounding man who didn't want it to go to waste.

I've refused to accept vouchers and told staff to unscan them. They then ask why I care, as I can just bin the vouchers - but the companies are charged (albeit a tiny amount) for vouchers given out so they should really ask.

At one location, staff scanned a single voucher but didn't actually hand it over as they'd clearly run out. I guess they still wanted to charge (I think in this case it was Homebase) the company, which to me was quite clear fraud!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always refuse the vouchers but they still scan them which as you say is fraud. It's like bus drivers repeatedly tapping the "pass" button, the prevention of which is (was, before verification was by smartcard) why in many locations a free ticket is issued.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

On the subject of un-requested voucher scanning at tills... has anyone actually made a formal complaint about the practice? If so, what was the outcome?

 

[jon0844]

On the subject of un-requested voucher scanning at tills... has anyone actually made a formal complaint about the practice? If so, what was the outcome?

No. I should, but haven't. I just avoid the stores like the plague.

I have other reasons (being ripped off as a magazine publisher, with WH Smith making us pay a fortune to be put on some shelves, in addition to their cut of the cover price) but even without that, their pricing is crazy.

I know they argue that it's expensive to have a store at an airport or motorway service station, but their prices are insane.

Even 'normal' stores look like they're still in the 1980s and seem to have staff that really wish they were anywhere but there.

I am quite stunned they survive, but obviously a lot of people do still pay their prices.

 

[507021]

I never use self service tills these days, although that's more down to the fact the shops I go to don't actually have them. In my experience of using them on the odd occasion I have been to Tesco, Asda or Morrisons, I've found the latter are the most reliable.

 

[johntea]

They can be slightly confusing these days too requesting you put your items in the 'bagging area' when a lot of shops have now hidden bags out of the way due to the fact you're meant to pay 5p a piece for them!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

No. I should, but haven't. I just avoid the stores like the plague.

I meant as in complaining to the Office of Fair Trading or something rather than to WHS themselves...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The worst 'promotion' they do has to be the one where they overprice bottles of water (to something like £2/bottle) and then say if you buy The Telegraph you get a free bottle of water.

Dave Gorman covered that issue in one the episodes of Life Is Goodish and he said the cashier refused to let him buy the paper and then leave the purchase in the shop and he tried to give the paper to other passengers on a train and found no-one wanted it until he found a boring sounding man who didn't want it to go to waste.

I think what's really happening is that you are paying £2 for the bottle of water, and at the same time WHS are paying you 40p to dispose of an unwanted Telegraph for them

 

[All Line Rover]

The Waitrose ones all seem to be card only. Personally I try to avoid any supermarkets that don't have self service checkouts, so much quicker and easier if you're only buying a few items.

Moreover, the "Quick Check" (scan-as-you-shop) payment terminals have been updated to include the option of self-scanning (which I consider a pain, as Quick Check doesn't take 20 seconds when all of the payment terminals are occupied by self-scanners with large shops!). None of these terminals have weighing scales. The absence of "please place your item in the bagging area" is nice, especially when buying multiple units of the same product, but I am surprised Waitrose are so trustworthy when customers can easily spend £100+ (or not).

 

[jon0844]

I meant as in complaining to the Office of Fair Trading or something rather than to WHS themselves...

Yeah, we'll I've not done that either. I should have done.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I hate the self-service tills in any supermarket, the last time I used one it kept complaining something like "unexpected item in bagging area". If I'm also buying a CD or a DVD it's easier to use a manned till as they have to take them out the plastic box or tag that plastic tag thing out.

The ones in DIY stores are better, possibly they're programmed on the assumption that the items to be scanned will be left in the trolley

 

[DarloRich]

Moreover, the "Quick Check" (scan-as-you-shop) payment terminals have been updated to include the option of self-scanning (which I consider a pain, as Quick Check doesn't take 20 seconds when all of the payment terminals are occupied by self-scanners with large shops!). None of these terminals have weighing scales. The absence of "please place your item in the bagging area" is nice, especially when buying multiple units of the same product, but I am surprised Waitrose are so trustworthy when customers can easily spend £100+ (or not).

Because Waitrose customers are not untrustworthy scum like those of us who shop at more low cost chains

 

[AM9]

Moreover, the "Quick Check" (scan-as-you-shop) payment terminals have been updated to include the option of self-scanning (which I consider a pain, as Quick Check doesn't take 20 seconds when all of the payment terminals are occupied by self-scanners with large shops!). None of these terminals have weighing scales. The absence of "please place your item in the bagging area" is nice, especially when buying multiple units of the same product, but I am surprised Waitrose are so trustworthy when customers can easily spend £100+ (or not).

I regularly use Waitrose's Quick Check. Here they seem to change the checkout stations from Quick Check only to QC + Self Scan every few weeks. As it is my 'corner shop', I go there frequently so I know when service is likely to be quiet, (and the best price reductions available), so QC is a real boon, especially since the free coffee changed to cup at the till for those who didn't have reusable ones.
An added benefit is that my main credit card is now contactless so transit through checkout can be about 20-30 seconds.
Tesco's and Sainsbury's self scans however frustrate me when they refuse to start when I use a rucksack because it thinks that the bag isn't empty at the start. Then they sometimes crash because I have to shuffle things around in the rucksack. I've never been quite ready but one day after a couple of machine failures I will unload the purchases and walk away, leaving the store to deal with the fruits of their labour-saving creations.

 

[northwichcat]

when I use a rucksack because it thinks that the bag isn't empty at the start.

That's one thing that annoys me about self-service tills, supermarkets are supposed to be encouraging us not to acquire additional bags if we don't need them, yet self-service tills won't let us use bags which contain items purchased from other shops.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tesco's and Sainsbury's self scans however frustrate me when they refuse to start when I use a rucksack because it thinks that the bag isn't empty at the start. Then they sometimes crash because I have to shuffle things around in the rucksack. I've never been quite ready but one day after a couple of machine failures I will unload the purchases and walk away, leaving the store to deal with the fruits of their labour-saving creations.

With a rucksack I tend to just pile items up in the so-called bagging area then move them to the rucksack after paying. It's often the case that you won't want to pack in the order of the basket anyway.

 

[ExRes]

I visited Waitrose in Teignmouth yesterday and joined a queue of 4 at the only cashier operated till open, there were 4 staff on the baskets only tills and a further 4 staff loitering around the self service area trying not to make eye contact with we fools with trolleys, you can't beat a good bit of customer service ..

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's one thing that annoys me about self-service tills, supermarkets are supposed to be encouraging us not to acquire additional bags if we don't need them, yet self-service tills won't let us use bags which contain items purchased from other shops.

You can, just don't put it in the bagging area.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

With a rucksack I tend to just pile items up in the so-called bagging area then move them to the rucksack after paying. It's often the case that you won't want to pack in the order of the basket anyway.

That's exactly what I now usually do. More often than not, I have cycled to the shop and have cycle panniers that are already quite heavy to put the shopping in. It's annoying, and it means it takes me a bit longer to complete paying/packing. But, depending on the queue lengths, it may still be quicker than going to a manned checkout.

Having said that, I'll almost always prefer a manned checkout if there is one available with not too long a queue. Makes it easier to deal with any queries during the shopping, and I quite like the extra human interaction anyway.

 

[GatwickDepress]

That's one thing that annoys me about self-service tills, supermarkets are supposed to be encouraging us not to acquire additional bags if we don't need them, yet self-service tills won't let us use bags which contain items purchased from other shops.

It's not that it won't let you use your bags, it's that the checkout cannot verify what's on its plate.
The bagging area has a small weight tolerance for own bags - it's designed for plastic and tote bags only, not rucksacks or crates. It's to prevent shrinkage and actually works very well in doing so.

The easiest thing to do is keep your rucksack on the floor and pack after you've got to the payment screen. It's a lot easier and helps us poor self-serve assistants when a bagging error pops up. Otherwise we may need to dig through your bag to ensure it's not a non-scan issue. The number of accidental non-scans can be staggering sometimes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's exactly what I now usually do. More often than not, I have cycled to the shop and have cycle panniers that are already quite heavy to put the shopping in. It's annoying, and it means it takes me a bit longer to complete paying/packing. But, depending on the queue lengths, it may still be quicker than going to a manned checkout.

There also isn't the pressure to pack quickly, because there are plenty of other checkouts (they tend to be single-queue) so nobody is breathing down your neck, nor is a member of staff impatiently twiddling their thumbs. So you can take your time and pack properly.

If the "bagging area" issue could be properly solved I'd prefer them. Keep the staff and have them wandering round the store to help people.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It's not that it won't let you use your bags, it's that the checkout cannot verify what's on its plate.
The bagging area has a small weight tolerance for own bags - it's designed for plastic and tote bags only, not rucksacks or crates. It's to prevent shrinkage and actually works very well in doing so.

The easiest thing to do is keep your rucksack on the floor and pack after you've got to the payment screen. It's a lot easier and helps us poor self-serve assistants when a bagging error pops up. Otherwise we may need to dig through your bag to ensure it's not a non-scan issue. The number of accidental non-scans can be staggering sometimes.

Agree to some extent, but I think there is some problem with how some scanners are programmed too. In my experience, if I bring my own bag and put it on the packing area scales, the scanner expects a staff member to verify its weight before I start scanning. That seems perfectly reasonable, and if the attendant is free, it isn't really a problem for the customer. However, the problem is that all too often, the scanner then demands that the staff member confirms the weight again with every single individual item that you purchase. That's very time consuming, and is just daft - since the scanner already knows what the weight of your bag was before any purchases have gone in it, it shouldn't have any trouble reconciling the weight as you put purchases in it without any further need for staff intervention. If that problem was fixed, there wouldn't be so much need for people with their own bags to pack separately after they've done scanning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think that's the actual issue - it's about the bag (rucksacks tend to be very tall and upright) moving around. Stand on your bathroom scales and see the effect of shifting your weight around.

Best to just scan them onto the "table" and then pack. Indeed, supermarkets might do better to encourage that (now bags are chargeable) by putting a fixed basket on that side.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

You say they introduced it, but in the late '70s/early '80s, there was a local chain in the East Midlands called Hillards, which used the same approach.
There was a small difference, in that each checkout already had an empty trolley at the end, so you emptied your shopping from your trolley onto the belt, then repacked your shopping into the empty trolley, paid your bill, then pulled your now-empty trolley to the end for the next customer to fill, before heading to the packing bench.

I vaguely remember Hillards from childhood in the 80s... But they can't have been that local, as they had a store in Huddersfield (now Tesco, the one which you can see into the staff room from trains pulling into platform 1).

 

[EM2]

I vaguely remember Hillards from childhood in the 80s... But they can't have been that local, as they had a store in Huddersfield (now Tesco, the one which you can see into the staff room from trains pulling into platform 1).

Yes, it turns out they were actually a Yorkshire chain that reached a little further south!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I detest WH Smith and find it mad/sad/bad that even the self scan tills try and upsell you a bar of chocolate and other crap.

Really the shop of last resort. And in many cases, even when thirsty, I've opted to stay thirsty than give them a penny (well, many pennies).

I'm of an age when I remember you needed 5 O Levels to get a job in WH Smith. How times change... Now I just seem to set the alarms off in some of them for some unknown reason....

I don't like self-service tills personally - but my wife is the opposite. I prefer a person and am happy for them to pack for me if asked. You also can't have a bit of banter with a machine

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I vaguely remember Hillards from childhood in the 80s... But they can't have been that local, as they had a store in Huddersfield (now Tesco, the one which you can see into the staff room from trains pulling into platform 1).

The flagship store was the one in Brighouse which later became a Tesco and later a Wilko. The distribution centre was on the Armitage Road Industrial Estate facing a sliproad and the offices were in Cleckheaton which is where Hillards were based.

Shame that we didn't have Hillards still, I wonder what they would have been like these days.

 

[plarailfan]

My local supermarket is a "24 hour store" but staff numbers have been cut back in all departments to save money.
Many night shift factory workers, pop in on their way home from work and yet, only one worker covers the cigarette kiosk as well as the self scan tills (no conventional till being open at that time)
There are always two or three annoyed customers waiting to be verified for purchasing paracetamol or beer, etc.
Incredibly, some customers have had to wait for up to twenty minutes on occasion and it's been like this for about three years, so I expect some customers will have complained to head office in that time, but nothing ever happens because the managers realise that having more than one member of staff would drain away profitability.
There are other workers filling shelves, but they are just a skeleton staff, mainly putting sandwiches in the "food to go" area, or cleaning the store while it is relatively quiet.
I can all too easily imagine scanner and mobile 'phone technology being the way forward in future years as supermarkets try to maintain decent profits, while staff do work previously covered by three employees in the past and for no extra money.
Till workers have to scan at least 19 items per minute, or else they get diverted on to shelf stacking, but customers can and indeed, do, take as long as they want at the self scan.

 

[robbeech]

Aldi do pay their staff better than some other chains.

Often 25-30% more if it is the same as it used to be. I remember the first time I went in Aldi and there were no barcodes, the staff has to know the price of every item. Of course this was the norm everywhere at one time but this was in the early to mid nineties I guess and way after all of the larger stores had moved on. I think that demanded a pay premium. It was so much faster, a trolley full through and done in far less time than you get now.

 

[AM9]

With a rucksack I tend to just pile items up in the so-called bagging area then move them to the rucksack after paying. It's often the case that you won't want to pack in the order of the basket anyway.

My normal shop is Waitrose where they don't have a bagging area. The best of all worlds is the quick check using a hand scanner. When I've finished getting the items, I just scan the 'terminating' barcode and then three screen button pushes to (usually) a contactless card payment. Waitrose is near enough and quick enough to be an extension to our pantry even when preparing a meal.