BTP Camera Van

[Leylandlad]

Good to see the van was out working this morning at Bamber Bridge level crossing.

Seen it there a few times recently, in the lay by pointing towards Preston.

Shame BTP have to do the work, as the crossing is a mere 100 yards from Bamber Bridge Nick...:roll:

Hard to believe the mentality of those who attempt to drive around the barriers when they're down....at least this crossing has full barriers.

 

[High Dyke]

There was one working at Newark Castle late last year. Alright we lost a parking space for it, but it was quite amusing to see it in action. The CCTV camera was raised so it was peering over the car park wall towards the level crossing and ANPR equipment was placed in a position to monitor passing vehicles.

By all accounts a number of motorists were reported for offences committed.

No doubt civil constabulary would claim that the responsibility for policing the level crossing rests with BTP.

 

[rogger13]

Good to see the van was out working this morning at Bamber Bridge level crossing.

Seen it there a few times recently, in the lay by pointing towards Preston.

Shame BTP have to do the work, as the crossing is a mere 100 yards from Bamber Bridge Nick...:roll:

Hard to believe the mentality of those who attempt to drive around the barriers when they're down....at least this crossing has full barriers.

Yes, the local bobbies could amble down in their downtime........

 

[Llanigraham]

We had the van at my level crossing recently, and in full and plain view of the crossing they still caught people running the lights!
You really do have to wonder about the mentality of some drivers!!

 

[EssexGonzo]

Darwinism in action.

The shame is the terrible impact it can have on the driver and inconvenience for passengers. Not to mention the costs.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[mac]

Think one of the best was when they where in Hull they had the TV cameras Hull paper and one car drove over when lights on red, he didn't get far

 

[DarloRich]

There is more than one van. I think there are a couple for each route now.

 

[fgwrich]

There is more than one van. I think there are a couple for each route now.

Yep. I think they now work with NR on NRs 'Regions'. I've had a look around the BTPs Southern Region based van (which gets a fair bit of use on the crossings around Southampton) and it's a pretty impressive piece of kit, well done to the BTP & NR for them.

 

[Temple Meads]

Saw one of these last May at Red Cow Crossing Exeter:

Definitely a very pleasing sight.

 

[pompeyfan]

Yep. I think they now work with NR on NRs 'Regions'. I've had a look around the BTPs Southern Region based van (which gets a fair bit of use on the crossings around Southampton) and it's a pretty impressive piece of kit, well done to the BTP & NR for them.

It also see's use at cosham LC on a regular basis, which surprises me as cosham doesn't appear to be particularly high risk, certainly I've never seen anyone try to beat the lights, although obviously I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

[Leylandlad]

The problem at Bamber Bridge crossing is more to do with drivers stopping in the yellow box over the crossing, rather than trying to beat the lights.

Can you think of a more stupid place to stop in traffic?

As they say, ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever.

 

[34D]

The problem at Bamber Bridge crossing is more to do with drivers stopping in the yellow box over the crossing, rather than trying to beat the lights.

Can you think of a more stupid place to stop in traffic?

As they say, ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever.

In this situation, do BTP give a ticket for the yellow box offence? Presumably sent by post?

 

[Leylandlad]

In this situation, do BTP give a ticket for the yellow box offence? Presumably sent by post?

BTP can and do issue Notices of Intended Prosecution for red light (crossing) offences.

No reason why they can't issue them for box offences. Or how about "obstructing the railway"...if there is such an offence!

 

[87019Chris]

No reason why they can't issue them for box offences. Or how about "obstructing the railway"...if there is such an offence!

If there isn't then there should be one now!

 

[Stigy]

It also see's use at cosham LC on a regular basis, which surprises me as cosham doesn't appear to be particularly high risk, certainly I've never seen anyone try to beat the lights, although obviously I know that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Cosham is a nightmare crossing. More do due to pedestrians though. Unfortunately pedestrians misusing crossings no longer constitutes to trespass on a railway, which could be dealt with using PNDs. Now any offence by pedestrians would have to get reported and possibly dealt with as a Byelaw offence of a different nature.

 

[0B00]

One of these vans at Wem this afternoon.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

BTP can and do issue Notices of Intended Prosecution for red light (crossing) offences.

No reason why they can't issue them for box offences. Or how about "obstructing the railway"...if there is such an offence!

Endangering the safety of the railway should cover stopping a car on a crossing, surely?

 

[orpine]

I'm curious - why isn't there a fixed camera at the crossings?
There are "only" 1600 road crossings in the UK apparently - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_crossing#United_Kingdom - and I imagine most of them are rural places.

Why don't the busy ones all have traffic cameras with ANPR on them permanently pointed at the crossings? The cost of a van and the staff to man/move it must be considerable.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

A few camera vans and some staff for them will be far cheaper than equipping the majority of level crossings with permanent ANPR cameras and the associated equipment and costs.

 

[Leylandlad]

I'm curious - why isn't there a fixed camera at the crossings?
There are "only" 1600 road crossings in the UK apparently - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_crossing#United_Kingdom - and I imagine most of them are rural places.

Why don't the busy ones all have traffic cameras with ANPR on them permanently pointed at the crossings? The cost of a van and the staff to man/move it must be considerable.

There is (or was?...not been for a few years) a fixed red light camera at Garve on the Kyle line.

How ridiculous that people cant wait a minute or 2 for the 8 trains a day that use that line!

You can see the camera in this link

http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=25670

 

[orpine]

A few camera vans and some staff for them will be far cheaper than equipping the majority of level crossings with permanent ANPR cameras and the associated equipment and costs.

Looking further, I'm amazed at how absurdly expensive the things are (from a report by Hertfordshire Police)!

Static cameras cost between £40k-60k to set up and redeployable cameras cost £7k
plus £13 per SIM card and minimal power costs. The force currently has 60 of these
static cameras.

Sounds like there are some vendors out there gouging the cops (and thus us tax payers) an absolute fortune. That was 2008, probably cheaper now, but still!

 

[Deerfold]

Looking further, I'm amazed at how absurdly expensive the things are (from a report by Hertfordshire Police)!

Sounds like there are some vendors out there gouging the cops (and thus us tax payers) an absolute fortune. That was 2008, probably cheaper now, but still!

Bizzare that they have a £20,000 range for the set up costs but then quote a SIM at £13 exactly.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm curious - why isn't there a fixed camera at the crossings?
There are "only" 1600 road crossings in the UK apparently - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_crossing#United_Kingdom - and I imagine most of them are rural places.

Why don't the busy ones all have traffic cameras with ANPR on them permanently pointed at the crossings? The cost of a van and the staff to man/move it must be considerable.

As yet, fixed red light ANPR cameras are not enforceable at level crossings. There needs to be a change in the road traffic regulations to permit it. Apparently.

 

[callum112233]

....No reason why they can't issue them for box offences. Or how about "obstructing the railway"...if there is such an offence!

Obstructing a train is an offence as opposed to obstructing the railway.


OBSTRUCTING TRAINS
There two levels of crime for obstructing trains within the Malicious Damage Act, also
enacted in 1861. Both relate to acts which cause trains to be obstructed or derailed.
If committed without intent it is punishable by a maximum of 2 years imprisonment
If committed with intent the maximum penalty is life imprisonment

 

[Tomnick]

I think we've already established that stopping in a yellow box over a level crossing is an offence that can be dealt with by the BTP (in the same manner as a normal box junction?), but do any offences cover queuing traffic blocking the crossing where there's no yellow box, just 'keep crossing clear' signs? At an MCB or CCTV crossing, there's no substantial danger from doing so, but of course an AHB is a rather different matter. I've seen examples of full-barrier crossings, though, where it's almost inevitable that traffic will end up stopped on the crossing (such as this one in Wokingham - even if only briefly whilst waiting to negotiate the mini-roundabout beyond).

As yet, fixed red light ANPR cameras are not enforceable at level crossings. There needs to be a change in the road traffic regulations to permit it. Apparently.

I'd understood that there was a problem with the type approval (or lack of) for these cameras, which I've heard has either been resolved or will be soon. Is this a separate issue?

 

[jon0844]

Making sure red light offences can become enforceable with a regular, fixed, camera should be a must.

I think the advantage of having fixed cameras, as against randomly moving a van about, is that it should - in theory - stop anyone ever trying to jump the lights. That's safer for rail users and surely the point?

A van is all very good, but it doesn't even appear to stop people when it's there (perhaps some are arrogant enough to ignore it, but more probably don't see it). Yes, it makes some revenue - just as hidden speed cameras did - but it didn't actually stop offences, which was always safer. Imagine a car jumping, a train derailing, and some fatalities - and the hearing someone say in a van 'we got them!'.

And even if you make it high visibility and have signs on the road, some idiots will merely look for a van and consider themselves having their own green light if it's not there.

The problem is that on the one hand, you want to stop people breaking the law. On the other, you want to raise revenue (even if not to directly make a profit) and if you put up fixed cameras, some bean counter would say it was a waste of money because nobody jumps the lights there anymore.

 

[Buspilot]

No reason why they can't issue them for box offences

As with all yellow boxes, if the markings are worn and not up to the standard specified in the relevant Act, offences are unenforceable and if penalties are wrongly issued as a result, they themselves are illegal.

 

[Yew]

I alsways find it interesting that a £60 fine will stop people, but not the prospect of coming into contact with 500 tons of train going at 100mph

 

[jon0844]

I alsways find it interesting that a £60 fine will stop people, but not the prospect of coming into contact with 500 tons of train going at 100mph

Crazy isn't it? But clearly people can't appreciate the danger.

When I was at Shepreth station, the time from barrier down to the train passing through was 11 seconds!

I am sure a lot of people you might 'ask on the street' will be of the opinion that you have a lot longer. No doubt they've at one time been held for many minutes, perhaps because a second train was due or whatever, so are convinced they've got plenty of time.

Only that contact will knock (literally) some sense into them.

But a fine or penalty points is something they'll see as 'more real'.

 

[Stigy]

As yet, fixed red light ANPR cameras are not enforceable at level crossings. There needs to be a change in the road traffic regulations to permit it. Apparently.

I don't see the issue as enforcement by way if FPNs instigated by a mobile source (van in this case) will be using the same legislation as any other red light offence using the Road Traffic Act.