BT Openreach visits.

[Smudger105e]

Reckon this might work?

I wrote this a month ago to BT Openreach.

The following request has been received via the 'contact us' form on the Openreach portal. Please review within the service timescales (3 working days).
•CP name: Member of the public
•DUNS ID: xxx xxx xxx
•Title: Mr
•Customer name: Bryan Smith
•Feedback type: I want to report rude, unhelpful or unsavoury behaviour displayed by an Openreach employee
•Email address: ***********
•Telephone number: **********
•Telephone number / address this relates to: *********Long Eaton Nottinghamshire NG10 ***
•Account number:
•Message: In the last week we have had three BT Openreach Engineers call to attend to a defect with the equipment at the above address. The Engineer today woke me up and I am on night shifts. Please do not tell me to go to my Service Provider, I am a Virgin Media Customer. Please ensure that no more of your Engineers contact me or attend my address. Please confirm this by email. If I have further visits, particularly three hours into my sleep like today, I shall be invoicing you for my time, inconvenience and distress, and possibly loss of earnings if I am unable to attend work because I am tired and unable to work safely. Please deal with this matter at your earliest opportunity and advise me by email when this situation has been dealt with. Bryan Smith

Thank you,

Openreach.

I received an acknowledgement from them.

This morning another Engineer called. I have written this email to them. Reckon it will work?

Zafer,


Almost a month ago I advised you of unwanted visits by three of your Engineers. I also advised that if I got any more visits, I would be invoicing you for my time and inconvenience.


This morning (Friday 18/10/2013) AT 08:25 I received a further visit from one of your Engineers to attend to J H Abram Ltd. My property is a domestic address.


I feel that I have given BT Openreach adequate notice to rectify this situation and correct the address, so I feel I have no alternative but to invoice for this visit, as it again forced me to get out of bed on a day's annual leave.


My charge for this is £25, and I would appreciate it if you would transfer the funds directly to my bank account (Nat West account ******** sort code ******) or send a cheque to the above address.


Many thanks, and I await your response with anticipation.


Yours sincerely

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It's worth a try. Companies have been known to pay up when ninvoiced like that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Being awoken during the day whilst being on night-shift duties and in need of recuperation sleep is a story that I have heard countless times when I was a Senior Manager and had these stories conveyed to me.

 

[Smudger105e]

Nothing from BT Openreach for 2 weeks now, so here goes stage three...

Zafer,


I note with sadness and disappointment, although not entirely unanticipated, that BT Openreach have failed to credit my account with the sum of £25 as per my previous email.


As a further two weeks has passed, I do not feel it unreasonable to have at least had a response from BT Openreach. I have not heard anything by mail, bank transfer or email since your original response to my complaint on 23rd September 2013.


As a result, I am going to have to charge your Company a further £10 for my time and inconvenience in having to contact you yet again regarding this complaint, which your email said should be dealt with 'within three days'.


Please note that I will review the situation in a further two weeks, and that the charges will be amended as required to the amount of £10 per email that I am required to send to BT Openreach.


Would you kindly credit account Nat West ******** (sort code ****** Account holders **********) with the amount of Thirty Five pounds?


I await a response with anticipation.


Kindest regards

Am I merely prodding a docile crocodile with stick? :P

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Am I merely prodding a docile crocodile with stick? :P

The metaphor I would use is 'prodding a sack of stones with a stick' - I'm sure they'll continue to ignore your requests or eventually explain that they owe you nothing.

I've had some response from Companies by simply chasing the debt with the accounts department, using standard Statement forms and debt collection letters, which progressively refer to more severe debt collection action.

 

[maniacmartin]

BT Openreach have failed to credit my account

I very much doubt you even have an account with Openreach. Their only customers are other telecoms companies, including BT Retail

 

[Smudger105e]

When I said credit my account, that was referring to my bank account. I am not a BT Openreach customer.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

 

[WelshBluebird]

What is the problem with them calling to fix a problem
Or are you saying that they are calling in reference to a company or person who has nothing to do with your address?
In which case, surely phoning them and explaining the situation, or writing a reasonably worded letter would work better than being almost passive aggressive?

 

[Zoidberg]

What is the problem with them calling to fix a problem
Or are you saying that they are calling in reference to a company or person who has nothing to do with your address?
In which case, surely phoning them and explaining the situation, or writing a reasonably worded letter would work better than being almost passive aggressive?

From the opening post, I take it that there is no Openreach product/technology on the premises, Virgin Media services being provided via its cable network.

 

[WelshBluebird]

From the opening post, I take it that there is no Openreach product/technology on the premises, Virgin Media services being provided via its cable network.

The OP doesn't specify cable, so I assumed they meant Virgin Media's ADSL network, which runs on BT's copper lines, which mean Openreach would be the organisation that performs maintenance and repairs. Even if the OP did mean Virgin Media's cable network, it is still entirely possible that a BT phone line is still connected (in which case again Openreach would be responsible for that).

 

[Zoidberg]

The OP doesn't specify cable, so I assumed they meant Virgin Media's ADSL network, which runs on BT's copper lines, which mean Openreach would be the organisation that performs maintenance and repairs. Even if the OP did mean Virgin Media's cable network, it is still entirely possible that a BT phone line is still connected (in which case again Openreach would be responsible for that).

I discounted it being VM's ADSL service in view of the thrust of the opening post. But the OP will no doubt clarify.

 

[ainsworth74]

In which case, surely phoning them and explaining the situation, or writing a reasonably worded letter would work better than being almost passive aggressive?

They've already done that. Then a while after another engineer called this is the response to that visit after BT Openreach had been informed.

 

[Smudger105e]

I use VM cable services which I understand are nothing to do with BT. I am not a BT customer. You cannot ring BT Openreach as they tell you to go through your service provider, but as I am not a customer. ...

I did write to them via email after 3 visits, and it was only after a further visit that I started charging them. If they had taken notice, I would have had no need to take any action.

These big Companies are quick enough to charge me for all sorts, so I thought I would see if I could turn the tables a little.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

 

[142094]

Is it not the case that BT Openreach are the spun-off company which handle the maintenance of the actual telephone lines, whilst BT is the commercial arm? Much like your gas may be provided by British Gas but it is the local gas network company who actually maintain the infrastructure to get that gas to you house.

 

[Zoidberg]

Is it not the case that BT Openreach are the spun-off company which handle the maintenance of the actual telephone lines, whilst BT is the commercial arm? Much like your gas may be provided by British Gas but it is the local gas network company who actually maintain the infrastructure to get that gas to you house.

That's about it - Openreach being the commercial operation (the carrier) with BT being a retail operation.

Openreach has no responsibility for delivery of Virgin Media's cable telephone/TV/Broadband service.

 

[richw]

Openreach are the first feature on Watchdog this evening. Watchdog have said they are contracted to all telecom providers, not just BT.

 

[142094]

That's about it - Openreach being the commercial operation (the carrier) with BT being a retail operation.

Openreach has no responsibility for delivery of Virgin Media's cable telephone/TV/Broadband service.

Depends on what they were trying to fix I suppose though?

 

[maniacmartin]

BT Openreach are the wholesale operator of all copper twisted pair between houses and the BT phone exchanges, regardless of operator. They have the Universal Service Obligation to provide lines at any address in the country.
BT Openreach is part of the BT Group, along with BT Retail and some other siblings.

Virgin Media is the exception, as they have their own cables in the street (but you can get an ADSL-based Virgin Media broadband service down BT wires instead of coax).

 

[Zoidberg]

Depends on what they were trying to fix I suppose though?

Nothing on the OP's premises, it appears. Just making a nuisance of themselves for reasons best know to the organisation.

 

[Smudger105e]

All the engineers said that this was the address given, and I have no issue with their conduct. They were all polite and apologetic. They all rang their office to advise of the incorrect address.

My issue is with BT OPENREACH who seem incapable of supplying their own staffs with accurate information, which results in my domestic arrangements being disputed.

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

 

[Crossover]

All the engineers said that this was the address given, and I have no issue with their conduct. They were all polite and apologetic. They all rang their office to advise of the incorrect address.

My issue is with BT OPENREACH who seem incapable of supplying their own staffs with accurate information, which results in my domestic arrangements being disputed.

Well, is Watchdog is to be believed, Openreach don't do customer service :P

 

[Smudger105e]

Well, I have had a reply from BT Openreach at long last.

As follows...

Dear Mr Smith

Thank you for your email. I have checked the address and the customers service provider are requesting appointments for Openreach engineers to attend the address which they would confirm is ok with the person at the address.

Whilst our engineers attempt to keep disruption caused by its works to a minimum, a certain amount of inconvenience, whilst regrettable, is unavoidable

I am sorry if you have been disturbed by this however unfortunately we do not pay compensation for inconvenience only for physical damage. As this is not physical damage your claim is denied.

Many Thanks
J**** D****
Complaints Management
Openreach


My response to this rather confusing incorrect email was...

Thank you for your reply.

In your email you state that , “I have checked the address and the customers service provider are requesting appointments for Openreach engineers to attend the address which they would confirm is ok with the person at the address.”

Which address are you talking about here? My address? I have not advised you that I require any repairs, I have not advised you that it is OK. I am not a customer of any service provider that uses BT Openreach equipment. I specifically advised BT Openreach that it is not OK to contact me.

Or are you referring to the correct address that the Engineers should have attended? That is not the address the Engineers had, they were given my address, and again, I specifically instructed that BT Openreach were not to attend my property, once by email, and verbally to four BT Openreach Engineers..

I would be grateful if you could clarify these issues.

Regarding your comment that you do not pay compensation, I think you may have understood my previous communication. This is not a compensation request. It is a charge levied by me against BT Openreach in accordance with my email of 23rd September where I advised you that “If I have further visits, particularly three hours into my sleep like today, I shall be invoicing you for my time, inconvenience and distress”. BT Openreach visited my property several weeks after I sent this email, and therefore this was acceptance of this invoice for my time.

If you do not wish to settle this invoice, I shall take my claim to the Small Claims Court in order to recover my costs.

Many thanks

 

[ainsworth74]

I really wish you all the best, this has the potential to be very entertaining

 

[Zoidberg]

I really wish you all the best, this has the potential to be very entertaining

Hear, hear.

 

[Smudger105e]

I am having fun, anyway!

Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk

 

[Trog]

You could also mention that as you have instructed them not to call, their Engineers are trespassing on your property, and that in future should any more of them continue this harassment you will be exercising your right to remove them by force.

(But don't actually do it).

 

[jon0844]

Well, is Watchdog is to be believed, Openreach don't do customer service :P

It is near impossible to communicate with them directly, such as asking if and when they'll be activating a cabinet with fibre. But if you do speak to them face to face, such as when they come to your home or you see one working nearby, they're usually very friendly and helpful.

 

[maniacmartin]

That is my experience too. It was impossible to find contact details when they laid some cables across my parents garden to their neighbour's house.

(FYI: They have a legal entitlement to lay cables across private land, but they have to be above a certain height from the ground, and this one wasn't - in fact its so low that if you jump you can grab it)

 

[gnolife]

That is my experience too. It was impossible to find contact details when they laid some cables across my parents garden to their neighbour's house.

(FYI: They have a legal entitlement to lay cables across private land, but they have to be above a certain height from the ground, and this one wasn't - in fact its so low that if you jump you can grab it)

If it's so low that you can jump and grab it, can you say that it's posting a safety hazard in your parent's garden and cut it in two?

 

[swj99]

If you do not wish to settle this invoice, I shall take my claim to the Small Claims Court in order to recover my costs.

Loss of earnings might be the one to go for. Particularly if you've missed any work as a result of disrupted sleep caused by their knocking on your door.
Another option would be report them to the police, on the basis that it is harassment.
The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 says,

1 Prohibition of harassment.

(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct —

(a) which amounts to harassment of another, and

(b) which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.

(2) For the purposes of this section, the person whose course of conduct is in question ought to know that it amounts to harassment of another if a reasonable person in possession of the same information would think the course of conduct amounted to harassment of the other.

There's no specific definition of what exactly constitutes harassment, because there are so many things that can be harassment. If it keeps happening, go and report it to the police, each time it happens. As long as there's a course of action, ie it happens more than the once, there's a potential offence.

Kosar -v- Bank of Scotland Plc (T/A Halifax) - 2011 established that harassment can be committed by a company as well as an individual. Under the Interpretation Act 1978, a 'person' includes a body corporate unless the contrary is shown.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2011/1050.html