Brussels Eurostar > ICE connection time

[nlogax]

Heading to Berlin late next week via Brussels and then two ICE legs via Cologne. Assuming Eurostar get me into Brussels on time will there be any issue with the 20 minute connection for the ICE? There's supposedly a security check in place for onward travel to Germany, etc. On the plus side my Eurostar > ICE connection is recognised by DB so there's a chance their outbound service may be held for a bit.

Man in Seat 61 suggests it should be fine but what experiences have the fine folk here had in recent years?

 

[StephenHunter]

Changed there in 2016 on the same route, went straight down into main concourse and got to the ICE platform pretty quickly. No check.

 

[AdamWW]

Heading to Berlin late next week via Brussels and then two ICE legs via Cologne. Assuming Eurostar get me into Brussels on time will there be any issue with the 20 minute connection for the ICE? There's supposedly a security check in place for onward travel to Germany, etc. On the plus side my Eurostar > ICE connection is recognised by DB so there's a chance their outbound service may be held for a bit.

Man in Seat 61 suggests it should be fine but what experiences have the fine folk here had in recent years?

From what I've heard the most likely problem isn't the Eurostar being late - it's the ICE being late or cancelled.

The Man in Seat 61 recently ended up having to use a combination of three non-ICE trains to get to Cologne from Brussels due to two ICEs in a row being cancelled.

I didn't see any sign of security checks in Brussels Midi recently though I didn't catch an ICE.

 

[nlogax]

@StephenHunter @AdamWW Thanks both. Yes, that was confusing to me. Difficult to see how there'd be a security check especially if there's a chance I could be looking at a cross-platform transfer.

Timing-wise I have a later ICE connection available to me, but if I need to improvise using Regio then that'll be fine too. Might just be a long day

 

[30907]

Not had problems - and if you are on an Amsterdam service it's likely to be cross platform.

 

[AdamWW]

@StephenHunter @AdamWW Thanks both. Yes, that was confusing to me. Difficult to see how there'd be a security check especially if there's a chance I could be looking at a cross-platform transfer.

Timing-wise I have a later ICE connection available to me, but if I need to improvise using Regio then that'll be fine too. Might just be a long day

A fair bit of the alternative route is actually on a Belgian Intercity train - when I did it recently the train was partly made up of some rather nice double decker coaches with very generous windows (matching up with the seats, too). So far as I can see that's the normal stock for this route.

Quite scenic in part, too.

 

[30907]

A fair bit of the alternative route is actually on a Belgian Intercity train - when I did it recently the train was partly made up of some rather nice double decker coaches with very generous windows (matching up with the seats, too). So far as I can see that's the normal stock for this route.

Quite scenic in part, too.

Indeed - it's just Verviers to Aachen that is a museum piece emu

 

[Beebman]

As I mentioned in another thread I made the Midi ICE connection OK last Thursday even though the ES I was on was a couple of minutes late. I reckon it took me 6 minutes to get from one platform to the other but I was in the front half of the ES. There were a few security-type staff members on the ES platform but they were showing little or no interest in arriving passengers.

 

[StephenHunter]

@StephenHunter @AdamWW Thanks both. Yes, that was confusing to me. Difficult to see how there'd be a security check especially if there's a chance I could be looking at a cross-platform transfer.

Timing-wise I have a later ICE connection available to me, but if I need to improvise using Regio then that'll be fine too. Might just be a long day

There isn’t a cross-platform transfer; the Eurostar ones are separate from the rest of the station. But you can get to the ICE platform pretty quickly.

 

[Trainbike46]

There isn’t a cross-platform transfer; the Eurostar ones are separate from the rest of the station. But you can get to the ICE platform pretty quickly.

This is not true for the Amsterdam bound services, which arrive in platform 3 (as opposed to the Brussels terminators, which arrive in Platform 1 or 2, which are the separate secure platforms). The ICE usually departs from Platform 3, 4, or 6, so it could be cross-platform if you're on an Amsterdam-bound train

 

[StephenHunter]

This is not true for the Amsterdam bound services, which arrive in platform 3 (as opposed to the Brussels terminators, which arrive in Platform 1 or 2, which are the separate secure platforms). The ICE usually departs from Platform 3, 4, or 6, so it could be cross-platform if you're on an Amsterdam-bound train

You're quite right

 

[DanielB]

This is not true for the Amsterdam bound services, which arrive in platform 3 (as opposed to the Brussels terminators, which arrive in Platform 1 or 2, which are the separate secure platforms). The ICE usually departs from Platform 3, 4, or 6, so it could be cross-platform if you're on an Amsterdam-bound train

Just had a look in the journey planner, but it seems there are no cross-platform changes possible. Planning for later this week only ICE 315 is leaving from platform 4, but that connection is from a terminating Eurostar.
All connections I've seen from an Amsterdam bound Eurostar onto an ICE to Cologne are actually changes to platform 5 or 7, so it's the adjacent platform but not the opposite side of the same platform.

 

[MarcVD]

You're quite right

Yes and no. As far as I know, when an Eurostar arrives on track 3 this track is fenced so you cannot directly board a train waiting on track 4.

 

[Trainbike46]

Yes and no. As far as I know, when an Eurostar arrives on track 3 this track is fenced so you cannot directly board a train waiting on track 4.

I think that's only true in the london bound direction? When heading the other way I've definitely seen the gates to the next platform open

 

[AdamWW]

I think that's only true in the london bound direction? When heading the other way I've definitely seen the gates to the next platform open

When I watched a northbound Eurostar call at Rotterdam last week it just stopped at a regular platform (not the one that can be half cordoned off for southbound services) with nothing preventing anyone from getting to the platform, and no visible security.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2022 ==

Indeed - it's just Verviers to Aachen that is a museum piece emu

Or Welkenraedt if you prefer a little longer on the intercity train. But I think unlike Verviers it's not a cross-platform transfer in that direction.

To be honest I couldn't see anything wrong with the "museum piece" EMU when I used it. You could certainly tell from the outside that it had been around a bit, but the interior had clearly been refurbished quite recently.

And I quite like trains with real opening windows.

It was a lot more pleasant than the DB train between Koeln and Aachen but I can't really blame the train for that. There had been some kind of disruption and it was a little on the busy side (and possibly also suffering from the 9 Euro ticket effect).

 

[DanielB]

When I watched a northbound Eurostar call at Rotterdam last week it just stopped at a regular platform (not the one that can be half cordoned off for southbound services) with nothing preventing anyone from getting to the platform, and no visible security.

There's obviously no need at all for that, plenty of time to do any customs inspections on the train or during the stop in Brussels. Using the platform that can be cordoned off is actually not even possible in the northbound direction: from the northbound tracks KA and LA in the tunnel south of Rotterdam Central platform 2 cannot be reached.

 

[Gerald Fiennes]

Based on doing what you're planning to do over 3-4 occasions in the past year: about 6-8 minutes between trains is about the fastest it can be done. Best to be in front 8 coaches if possible: there is a passageway that was put to ease the connection at the midpoint of the platform, but this has been shut for security reasons for some years. Although in general there has been no security all pax are funelled through an area beneath Platforms 3/4 where they can be inspected if the security is tightened (it's up to the Belgian authorities what security they impose on any given day). Also, the Belgian customs are there some times presumably looking for drugs, stolen goods and people moving more than EUR 50,000 between EU member states, without filling out the official forms.

The 3rd time I did this journey, the ES was about 8 mins late due to something weird near Halle and the ICE wasn't held. So I had a 2 hour wait. The non-ICE option is OK, but the shuttle from Welkenraedt to Aachen is one of the oldest EMUs on SNCB/NMBS and it really feels like a museum piece. Another time, the ES was late (I think by about 5 mins) but the ICE was held...

The overall reliability of the ICE trains is now very poor so I would always allow a contingency of c.3 hours for any onward connection from Cologne (eg. sleeper trains). It is one of the poorest ICE lines that DB operate -- the catering is totally random as well -- and a pale shadow of what it was ten years. But once you switch onto an ICE4 at Cologne or Frankfurt and zoom where you are going to Germany, everything will feel much better again.

The plan is for SNCB to provide an hourly Cologne - Brussels in a few years' time, when they have new trains, which should make things miles easier!

 

[nlogax]

Great info, thanks @Gerald Fiennes. Now I definitely know to make my way towards the front of the ES before alighting.

Your observations re. reliability are spot on. Zugfinder suggests #315 has been ok for the most part, but the onward #651 from Cologne to Berlin hasn't run since the last week of August. DB are making Avanti look like SBB, so I'm now looking at plans B and C just in case.

 

[blackfive460]

Or Welkenraedt if you prefer a little longer on the intercity train. But I think unlike Verviers it's not a cross-platform transfer in that direction.

To be honest I couldn't see anything wrong with the "museum piece" EMU when I used it. You could certainly tell from the outside that it had been around a bit, but the interior had clearly been refurbished quite recently.

The EMUs used are quite comfortable but bear in mind that if your ICE has been cancelled and you are changing at Welkenraedt you'll be joined by lots and lots of others who should have been on the cancelled train and as you can imagine, the passengers from a full ICE do not fit easily in to a 2 car EMU.
The IC from Brussels overtakes the Aachen bound EMU at Verviers so as long as it is on time, changing there is usually a much better option.

 

[0nlySam]

Great info, thanks @Gerald Fiennes. Now I definitely know to make my way towards the front of the ES before alighting.

Your observations re. reliability are spot on. Zugfinder suggests #315 has been ok for the most part, but the onward #651 from Cologne to Berlin hasn't run since the last week of August. DB are making Avanti look like SBB, so I'm now looking at plans B and C just in case.

View attachment 120370

It is (or at least was) running, I was on ICE 651 on the 27th. "Destination not reached" is because the train is terminating at Hbf rather than the normal Ostbanhof - due to construction work only S-Bahn trains are running at Ostbanhof at the moment.

In my case on the 27th it was diverted en route though, which added about 30 minutes. In the opposite direction we were stopped for 40 mins in the middle of nowhere due to track repairs, which surely they knew about before departure but we didn't get any warning about! Basically, I wouldn't count on getting anywhere exactly on time

 

[Austriantrain]

It is (or at least was) running, I was on ICE 651 on the 27th. "Destination not reached" is because the train is terminating at Hbf rather than the normal Ostbanhof - due to construction work only S-Bahn trains are running at Ostbanhof at the moment.

In my case on the 27th it was diverted en route though, which added about 30 minutes. In the opposite direction we were stopped for 40 mins in the middle of nowhere due to track repairs, which surely they knew about before departure but we didn't get any warning about! Basically, I wouldn't count on getting anywhere exactly on time

Commuting from St Pölten (a town 60 km west of Vienna) to Vienna, I regularly look out for the Frankfurt/Berlin/Hamburg/Dortmund- Vienna ICEs because their schedule suits me (at least it would if it ran to tlme). Yesterday was the first time in months that I actually travelled on a punctual one (so unusual that the guard made an announcement to this effect!), and I am not talking about 5 minutes delay either. Anything shorter than 20 minutes delay has been unusual; an hour or more not so at all. Since these trains have a 30-minutes-turnaround Vienna, a real disaster.

 

[BahrainLad]

I have done cross platform between Eurostar and ICE at Brussels, off an Amsterdam bound train. It was super easy and DB/Eurostar really should try and exploit this in some way, by marketing it properly and perhaps making sure it always happens? Or even [whisper] through ticketing…?

Also - be aware if booking in advance, Eurostar open London-Amsterdam earlier for sale than London-Brussels on the same service. So if you can’t see any available tickets on the train you want just change the destination. Can be cheaper too.

 

[AdamWW]

Also - be aware if booking in advance, Eurostar open London-Amsterdam earlier for sale than London-Brussels on the same service. So if you can’t see any available tickets on the train you want just change the destination. Can be cheaper too.

Possibly not a good idea though if you're buying a return (or just a single in the other direction).

I would imagine that trying to check in at Brussels with a ticket from Amsterdam might not go down too well.

 

[BahrainLad]

‍That’s why I clearly said London-Brussels / London-Amsterdam. Of course it only works in one direction.

 

[AdamWW]

‍That’s why I clearly said London-Brussels / London-Amsterdam. Of course it only works in one direction.

It seemed to me that your advice could easily be read as recommending buying a London to Amsterdam return for travel to/from Brussels rather than only applying to the (relatively rare?) case where someone is buying a single ticket.

Maybe it's just me though.

 

[valedave]

Have done this connection twice this year, on a Friday and Saturday so lots of passengers (both times arriving 12:05, departing 12:25). First time the Eurostar was late and we had to run for the (punctual) ICE, second time we were on time and the ICE was delayed into Brussels so we had to get a Belgian IC to Liège, where the ICE was waiting.

DB seemingly struggling greatly on this route at the moment, particularly through Cologne to Frankfurt as well. On the outbound (to the UK) leg of the first of the aforementioned journeys, the ICE was terminated at short notice at Brussels Nord and it was utter chaos. Can't wait for the Paris-Berlin TGV – I think that may become my favoured route to Erfurt, even if it might be a longer journey time? Cologne seems to be an utter mess at the moment.

If you can get an earlier ES, then do so – depending on how far you have got to travel. For me, missing that connection means home at 11pm instead of 8:30pm. Nine times out of ten it should work.

I also noticed the "short-cut" (Seat61 here: https://www.seat61.com/stations/brussels-midi.htm#Short_cut) being closed off this year. I think it has something to do with new customs regulations, as now Belgian customs have a more significant presence at the end of the platform. They were inspecting someone's Harrod's bag when I went through last! I last used the short-cut in December 2021.

 

[nlogax]

DB seemingly struggling greatly on this route at the moment, particularly through Cologne to Frankfurt as well. On the outbound (to the UK) leg of the first of the aforementioned journeys, the ICE was terminated at short notice at Brussels Nord and it was utter chaos. Can't wait for the Paris-Berlin TGV – I think that may become my favoured route to Erfurt, even if it might be a longer journey time? Cologne seems to be an utter mess at the moment.

ICE651's reliability has edged up in recent days but if needed 953's has been markedly better on the same route out of Cologne. Not sure if this is a stock issue or something else. Not a chance of getting an earlier ES tomorrow so fingers crossed the ES+315+651 combination works out with 953 as a plan B for the Berlin leg. Thankfully the destination hotel is right next to Berlin Hbf so we can manage two or three hours of delay.

 

[riceuten]

there is a passageway that was put to ease the connection at the midpoint of the platform, but this has been shut for security reasons for some years

When I used to travel London to Cologne regularly, and there was passport control at Midi, the passageway was a real life saver, and occasionally was unstaffed and could have been used to bypass passport control completely. I was a PITA if you were in the front of the train, as you were walking against the flow of passengers.

 

[nlogax]

Quick update..Wednesday morning ES ushered as many as possible onto the earlier Amsterdam via Brussels service due to a 90 minute delay with the one we were supposed to be on. It helped that we were at St P early to take advantage of it. Plenty of connection time at the other end.

In the end ICE315 was faultless and ICE651 lived up (down?) to its recent spell of bad runs. Even then just an hour late into Berlin Hbf.

 

[blackfive460]

When I used to travel London to Cologne regularly, and there was passport control at Midi that was a real life saver, and occasionally was unstaffed and could have been used to bypass passport control completely. I was a PITA if you were in the front of the train, as you were walking against the flow of passengers.

Could it be that you meant to mention the inter-platform subway half way down the E* platforms at Midi?