Broken Oyster - what a palaver!

[burgesst]

My Oyster card became intermittent and needed replacing. 5 station visits and a 4 mile journey out of my way, and 2 days later its finally done!

My normal journey is via South West Trains and Overground. None of their ticket offices can do the replacement, you have to go to a tube station. There are no tube stations along my route. (Despite this, various platform staff informed me that the ticket office could do it, despite the ticket office saying they couldn't!) And a very rude ticket lady at Richmond told me I would have to go all the way to Hammersmith!

So I called the help line. After passing security (after them seeming to think my mother's maiden name was a piece of farm machinery!) they informed me I needed to visit a tube station, but were unable to tell me which or whether any stations were suitable, as they don't have a list. On pressing him, he told me that the nearest tube station to Richmond was Rickmansworth. Alphabetically, maybe!

So today I made a special lunch time trip by bus to White City from work. The ticket office was closed (peak hours only) and were unable to help. Tried Wood Lane, but they don't do tickets at all! But they did inform me I would probably have to go to zone 1, and had 'better get used to it'. Charming.

Finally, walked all the way to Shepherds Bush, where the job was done in a couple of minutes! (And yes, I was late back from lunch).

Surely there has to be a better way ???

 

[exile]

My Oyster card became intermittent and needed replacing. 5 station visits and a 4 mile journey out of my way, and 2 days later its finally done!

My normal journey is via South West Trains and Overground. None of their ticket offices can do the replacement, you have to go to a tube station. There are no tube stations along my route. (Despite this, various platform staff informed me that the ticket office could do it, despite the ticket office saying they couldn't!) And a very rude ticket lady at Richmond told me I would have to go all the way to Hammersmith!

So I called the help line. After passing security (after them seeming to think my mother's maiden name was a piece of farm machinery!) they informed me I needed to visit a tube station, but were unable to tell me which or whether any stations were suitable, as they don't have a list. On pressing him, he told me that the nearest tube station to Richmond was Rickmansworth. Alphabetically, maybe!

So today I made a special lunch time trip by bus to White City from work. The ticket office was closed (peak hours only) and were unable to help. Tried Wood Lane, but they don't do tickets at all! But they did inform me I would probably have to go to zone 1, and had 'better get used to it'. Charming.

Finally, walked all the way to Shepherds Bush, where the job was done in a couple of minutes! (And yes, I was late back from lunch).

Surely there has to be a better way ???

Yes. A car.

 

[parkender102]

My Oyster card became intermittent and needed replacing. 5 station visits and a 4 mile journey out of my way, and 2 days later its finally done!

My normal journey is via and Overground. None of their ticket offices can do the replacement, you have to go to a tube station. There are no tube stations along my route. (Despite this, various platform staff informed me that the ticket office could do it, despite the ticket office saying they couldn't!) And a very rude ticket lady at Richmond told me I would have to go all the way to Hammersmith!

So I called the help line. After passing security (after them seeming to think my mother's maiden name was a piece of farm machinery!) they informed me I needed to visit a tube station, but were unable to tell me which or whether any stations were suitable, as they don't have a list. On pressing him, he told me that the nearest tube station to Richmond was Rickmansworth. Alphabetically, maybe!

So today I made a special lunch time trip by bus to White City from work. The ticket office was closed (peak hours only) and were unable to help. Tried Wood Lane, but they don't do tickets at all! But they did inform me I would probably have to go to zone 1, and had 'better get used to it'. Charming.

Finally, walked all the way to Shepherds Bush, where the job was done in a couple of minutes! (And yes, I was late back from lunch).

Surely there has to be a better way ???

A Car? Even worse - the guys I work with in West London regularly spend 2 hours getting to home 8 or 9 miles away due to traffic! They arrive stressed out in the morning and start getting stressed out around 15:00 when they start thinking about the journey home. Apart from starting work at stupido'clock in the morning the only alternative is train/tube/bus. Me I take the best possible alternative - bicycle - cheap, fast (faster than car or public transport) and healthy.

 

[penaltyfines]

Out of interest, if an Oyster card stops working (through no fault of your own), why is it then invalid for travel?

If not for Pay as you Go, for a season ticket the ticket is still on there... it just can't be read.

Not much different from a faded railcard perhaps?

 

[LexyBoy]

Out of interest, if an Oyster card stops working (through no fault of your own), why is it then invalid for travel?

"Yeah, I've got a Travelcard on it guv, it just stopped working"

...

I don't know if TfL would refund a reasonable amount of travel in order to sort out a borked Oyster, which would be a sensible way of doing it. I get the impression they're usually pretty good with little Oyster niggles.

 

[penaltyfines]

"Yeah, I've got a Travelcard on it guv, it just stopped working"

Quite agree, but a check of the Oyster's serial number via phone would sort that out.

But the question is how do the Conditions of Carriage apply making the ticket invalid? What if the Oyster card stops working mid-journey?

 

[MikeWh]

Quite agree, but a check of the Oyster's serial number via phone would sort that out.

There would be all sorts of data protection implications involved there as the data is held by TfL. Also, have you ever tried to get through to the Oyster helpline at busy times? Can take a while. And what about during the 12 hours a day that they are shut?

But the question is how do the Conditions of Carriage apply making the ticket invalid? What if the Oyster card stops working mid-journey?

When using an Oyster Card you are also bound by the Oyster conditions of use as well as the NRCoC. They will state that a ticket is invalid if it cannot be read. They also state that a travelcard becomes invalid if the PAYG balance falls below zero until such time as a top up clears the negative balance.

Whilst not impossible while travelling, cards usually malfunction as a result of things like going through a washing machine or tumble dryer. You can damage a card by bending it while sitting on it in a back pocket, although usually the card will become a little intermittant first. If you were issued a penalty fare and TfL later confirmed that the card was touched in at the start of your journey then they would have to cancel the PF.

 

[Deerfold]

Anyone know how many cards have failed? I've had mine 6 years now with no problems.

 

[Mojo]

Certain London Underground staff have access to a special telephone line enabling them to check what is stored on Oyster cards. There was a trial underway of a new automated system but I am unaware of how this has progressed. I am unaware if TfL staff have access to a similar service, but I'd imagine so.

 

[Harlesden]

Nearest LUL ticket ffice to Richmond is Turnham Green. However, due to staff cuts, many ticket offices are now closed between 11AM and 4PM

 

[burgesst]

Well I got my replacement card, but it seems less sensitive than the old one.

The old one would read through my wallet, but the new one needs to be taken out, otherwise it gives a green light and opens the barrier, followed immediately by a red light, beeps and 'seek assistance'.

So far I have not sought assistance as I'm off through the barrier!

 

[table38]

The old one would read through my wallet, but the new one needs to be taken out, otherwise it gives a green light and opens the barrier, followed immediately by a red light, beeps and 'seek assistance'.

My Oyster card started doing exactly that, but I realised a new (replacement) credit card also in my wallet had been issued as a "contactless" one so maybe the gate was reading both?

 

[Mojo]

This indicates that either your wallet has multiple contactless cards in it which are being read, or that your Oyster card is being read once (and accepted) and then being partially read a second time. In order to avoid this your card should be placed flat onto the reader and held there until the green light illuminates.

 

[burgesst]

Bingo!

Yes, I've just been issued a new debit card which is indeed contactless. Why didn't I think of that*? DOH!

(I'm also now thinking that this was the problem all along, and the original card didn't fail - but I think it still didn't work properly on its own, but it did seem to happen at a similar time to when the new card went in the wallet!)

Interestingly, the Oyster always reads ok and lets me through - only then does it fail - maybe the debit card is slower to reply?

I might do some experiments on the way home tonight!

*and why didn't the station staff think of that... ...no, don't answer that!

 

[87 027]

When using an Oyster Card you are also bound by the Oyster conditions of use as well as the NRCoC. They will state that a ticket is invalid if it cannot be read.

Given that every Oyster card has a serial number, and the details of any Travelcards registered to that serial number can easily be retrieved from the database (e.g. by logging onto your account from a mobile web browser), I'm curious why a Travelcard would suddenly become invalid if the chip on the Oyster itself couldn't be read? Looks to me like a 20th century rule for 21st century technology!

 

[KentonCanary]

My Oyster card is one of the ones issued with a separate photocard, and the number is faded so badly I can't work out exactly what it is, maybe less than 10,000. It might have been issued around 2003, not really quite sure. No problems so far.

 

[dvboy]

ive had an oyster card replaced before. when it failed i was at marylebone and trying to get to park royal having reached the daily cap. the tube ticket office had closed i was advised to buy a paper ticket and claim the money back from tfl. park royal replaced it the following day after filling out a form and i was asked to estimate the payg value. i had overestimated. when i rang oyster later to explain they wouldnt listen and wouldnt refund me the right amount so i ended up writing a long letter enclosing the paper ticket and eventually got a cheque which covered the paper ticket and cost of phoning tfl i had also incurred, less the amount i'd overestimated my balance by

you'll find now that you can't get your deposit back on your card at a ticket office. i assume you have to phone/write to oyster.

 

[Daniel]

Certain London Underground staff have access to a special telephone line enabling them to check what is stored on Oyster cards. There was a trial underway of a new automated system but I am unaware of how this has progressed. I am unaware if TfL staff have access to a similar service, but I'd imagine so.

That's now company wide.

you'll find now that you can't get your deposit back on your card at a ticket office. i assume you have to phone/write to oyster.

Er, yes you can.

 

[island]

My Oyster card is one of the ones issued with a separate photocard, and the number is faded so badly I can't work out exactly what it is, maybe less than 10,000. It might have been issued around 2003, not really quite sure. No problems so far.

While it's still working, go to a ticket office and get them to print a mini statement, which will have the number on it.

Er, yes you can.

I am given to understand that you can only get your card refunded on the spot at a ticket office if you have under £5 PAYG credit on it. Is that correct?

 

[Daniel]

I am given to understand that you can only get your card refunded on the spot at a ticket office if you have under £5 PAYG credit on it. Is that correct?

No, you can only refund the card via a miscelanious transaction if the PAYG balance is under £5. If the PAYG balace is over £5 then it must be refunded first. This can be done immedietly if the credit on the card was put on with the same tender. If not, the PAYG balance will be sent to the cards registered address, and the deposit refunded immedietly. If the card is not registered, it can be surrendered immedietly before surrendering.

Might take slightly longer, by 3 minutes or so, but it can still be done at a ticket office.

 

[burgesst]

OK, further experiments show it was the contactless debit card that was messing up the Oyster. On its own, the Oyster is fine. With the debit card, the results are variable. Interestingly, just placing the debit card on the oyster reader gave a 'seek assistance' response.

Make me wonder how the 'one pulse' cards that do contactless debit and Oyster work...

 

[mallard]

OK, further experiments show it was the contactless debit card that was messing up the Oyster. On its own, the Oyster is fine. With the debit card, the results are variable. Interestingly, just placing the debit card on the oyster reader gave a 'seek assistance' response.

Probably means the cards are based on the same/similar technology. i.e. The reader sends a signal asking for the card information and whichever card responds first/clearest gets read. If it's the debit card, the reader doesn't recognise it as an Oyster so rejects it. (Or they both respond at the same time so the response is garbled and cannot be accepted.)

Make me wonder how the 'one pulse' cards that do contactless debit and Oyster work...

Exactly the same way I expect, except that in that case the information that the card sends is recognised as an Oyster. (i.e. the card sends back valid Oyster data and valid debit card data.)

This is going to be a right pain when we all have 20 different kinds of ITSO cards in our wallets...

 

[button_boxer]

This is going to be a right pain when we all have 20 different kinds of ITSO cards in our wallets...

This statement is anathema to the whole idea of ITSO - if you have an ITSO-compatible card you should be able to use it in any ITSO-based scheme regardless of who nominally issued it - but sadly is more than likely accurate. I can't imagine Stagecoach (for example) being happy for you to use a card printed with Arriva branding on their services or vice-versa, even though the cards are technically interchangeable.

 

[dvboy]

No, you can only refund the card via a miscelanious transaction if the PAYG balance is under £5. If the PAYG balace is over £5 then it must be refunded first. This can be done immedietly if the credit on the card was put on with the same tender. If not, the PAYG balance will be sent to the cards registered address, and the deposit refunded immedietly. If the card is not registered, it can be surrendered immedietly before surrendering.

Might take slightly longer, by 3 minutes or so, but it can still be done at a ticket office.

OK so when I tried two months ago to get a deposit back on my replacement Oyster card at Euston underground, why was I told it couldn't be done?

 

[mallard]

This statement is anathema to the whole idea of ITSO - if you have an ITSO-compatible card you should be able to use it in any ITSO-based scheme regardless of who nominally issued it - but sadly is more than likely accurate. I can't imagine Stagecoach (for example) being happy for you to use a card printed with Arriva branding on their services or vice-versa, even though the cards are technically interchangeable.

Quite. ITSO will most likely just be a technical standard, lowering the cost of equipment for operators and allowing interoperability between suppliers. I think the chances of operators allowing third-party cards to be enrolled are next to zero. This and the fact that it's basically introducing TOC-only fares on all routes, I'm not looking forward to widespread adoption.

 

[zero]

OK so when I tried two months ago to get a deposit back on my replacement Oyster card at Euston underground, why was I told it couldn't be done?

Maybe you paid by card? Or just try another station or another time. I've gotten a deposit refund at Euston before.

Once I had two oysters in my wallet - one with a travelcard, the other which I was bringing to a friend to use. Touched in with the travelcard, then on the journey something must have shifted inside my wallet, because when I touched out there were two beeps. The maximum cash fare was taken from the second oyster!. As it was late at night, the barriers were open anyway, so I shouldn't even have bothered touching out with the travelcard.

 

[barrykas]

Once I had two oysters in my wallet - one with a travelcard, the other which I was bringing to a friend to use. Touched in with the travelcard, then on the journey something must have shifted inside my wallet, because when I touched out there were two beeps. The maximum cash fare was taken from the second oyster!

Having multiple Oysters in the same wallet is just asking for trouble...Put it on a ticket machine and it'll usually come up with a "Too many cards" error.

Lost count of the number of people who've completely messed up two cards as a result of that, where it's recorded an entry on one but the exit on the other.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[Daniel]

Maybe you paid by card? Or just try another station or another time. I've gotten a deposit refund at Euston before.

Once I had two oysters in my wallet - one with a travelcard, the other which I was bringing to a friend to use. Touched in with the travelcard, then on the journey something must have shifted inside my wallet, because when I touched out there were two beeps. The maximum cash fare was taken from the second oyster!. As it was late at night, the barriers were open anyway, so I shouldn't even have bothered touching out with the travelcard.

If you speak to a member of staff straight away and explain you can get the 2nd exit refunded. Also if you're unsure which one has been touched in you can ask a staff member to check.

barrykas is correct, it happens quite a lot.