Broken Down Train at Blackfriars

[tsr]

For the convenience (or lack thereof) of forum members, here's the latest info I've collected regarding the disruption at London Blackfriars this morning.

At 0749 a Class 319 operating 1L60 0640 Bedford to Orpington failed and all trains were forced to use the Southbound line. Power has now been isolated to both lines. Delays of up to 60 minutes are ongoing and several cancellations are reported. The severe congestion is not expected to be cleared until mid-afternoon at the earliest. Some passengers are threatening to detrain, which is making the situation more uncertain. In addition, FCC are not providing drivers with information about the cause of the disruption, according to Twitter reports, which is adding to frustration. No trains have been reported as running at Blackfriars since 0833.

Some Southern services are delayed by the congestion as a result of this incident.

Passengers may use Southern, SWT, SET, LOROL, LU and Tramlink services until further notice.
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Update: It looks like a couple of trains started moving at 0917 through Pl.2.

 

[MattRobinson]

Some passengers are threatening to detrain, which is making the situation more uncertain.

Idiots.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[lev441]

I woke up, saw the disruption and decided it wasn't worth getting out of bed - sounded like a nightmare situation for the morning peak..

 

[tsr]

Idiots.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

Exactly what I thought.

A comment on Twitter went something like: "If the power's off, why is it unsafe to get off?"

Oh dear.
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That's not to say I don't understand passengers' frustration. I know exactly how it feels to be stuck on a train or station platform. I clocked up three hours' worth of delays with FCC once, for example.

There only appear to have been about five trains through Blackfriars in the past hour, which is rather short of ideal!
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Update: The train has been reported by First Capital Connect's Twitter Account as removed.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Delays to 90 mins showing .......(bad one)

 

[talltim]

In addition, FCC are not providing drivers with information about the cause of the disruption, according to Twitter reports, which is adding to frustration.

Idiots

 

[Bald Rick]

It was 2W15 (Flitwick - Sutton) that failed at 0745, just about the worst time possible. Major fault in the traction system - described as 'like a firework going off under the train' whenever the train tried to take power. Unit 319008 - perhaps being tempremental about being 19 years next week since it last saw France. The exact type of failure is to be determined, but it is certainly rare.

1L60 was trapped immeadiately in rear, with the front coach alongside the non-operational part of the southbound platform at Blackfriars. Passengers were detrained.

Both through lines at Blackfriars had to be isolated and blocked for about 20 minutes to get the fitters in to take out the shoegear fuses. Before and after this southbound trains were signalled bi-di through the northbound platform to keep stuff moving.

Drivers certainly were making regular announcements - although of course there may have been some that weren't. Announcements were also being made at every station in the core at least. The signallers at Victoria were making general calls to drivers in their patch - I heard at least 3. From what I saw and heard of passengers at Kentish town, St Pancras, City TL and Blackfriars, plus those on my train, there was very little grumbling.

Service is in recovery now, many cancellations and delays to 30/40 minutes, should be back to normal in a couple of hours.

 

[tsr]

It was 2W15 (Flitwick - Sutton) that failed at 0745, just about the worst time possible. Major fault in the traction system - described as 'like a firework going off under the train' whenever the train tried to take power. Unit 319008 - perhaps being tempremental about being 19 years next week since it last saw France. The exact type of failure is to be determined, but it is certainly rare.

1L60 was trapped immeadiately in rear, with the front coach alongside the non-operational part of the southbound platform at Blackfriars. Passengers were detrained.

Both through lines at Blackfriars had to be isolated and blocked for about 20 minutes to get the fitters in to take out the shoegear fuses. Before and after this southbound trains were signalled bi-di through the northbound platform to keep stuff moving.

Drivers certainly were making regular announcements - although of course there may have been some that weren't. Announcements were also being made at every station in the core at least. The signallers at Victoria were making general calls to drivers in their patch - I heard at least 3. From what I saw and heard of passengers at Kentish town, St Pancras, City TL and Blackfriars, plus those on my train, there was very little grumbling.

Service is in recovery now, many cancellations and delays to 30/40 minutes, should be back to normal in a couple of hours.

It seems it has been recovering relatively well, by TL standards. I'm sorry for giving the incorrect info about the service involved - this is what was initially reported to me on the system I was using.

General calls were indeed given out, after which I believed the info situation eased.

Lastly, regarding the fault's symptoms themselves, they do sound nasty, and explains why I saw delay code "YD" (IIRC) - that means "fault to the traction equipment"!

 

[Bald Rick]

YD is 'following late running service' Apparently there were a few today!

 

[tsr]

YD is 'following late running service' Apparently there were a few today!

Oh, hang on - another error on my part - I don't mean YD at all! Oops! Fail by me there! I mean MM, of course!

 

[hluraven]

Some passengers are threatening to detrain, which is making the situation more uncertain. In addition, FCC are not providing drivers with information about the cause of the disruption, according to Twitter reports, which is adding to frustration

Given FCC were the TOC involved in the Kentish Town incident, made much worse by passengers de-training after no information being received during a breakdown, it would be very bad of them to risk that again. Maybe they need to read the RAIB report again.

 

[tsr]

Given FCC were the TOC involved in the Kentish Town incident, made much worse by passengers de-training after no information being received during a breakdown, it would be very bad of them to risk that again. Maybe they need to read the RAIB report again.

I think the problem is that in any severe disruption on the TL Core, a high number of passengers will be stuck only a short distance from a station platform, and will therefore be more likely to decide on what they deem (incorrectly) is a strategy of lower risk... which is to walk the distance to the next/previous station.

Most passengers have zero idea of how dangerous a railway is. They deem walking on the railway to be only minimally more dangerous than crossing the road.

 

[b0b]

Unit 319008 - perhaps being tempremental about being 19 years next week since it last saw France.

my old friend, do let us know any updates on the unit if you hear them!

 

[tsr]

my old friend, do let us know any updates on the unit if you hear them!

I'm about to buy a sledgehammer and will be happy to send you a small souvenir of my resultant activities.

 

[b0b]

I'm about to buy a sledgehammer and will be happy to send you a small souvenir of my resultant activities.

I believe the souvenir I really want from that unit was taken years ago and is in some dusty closet in Victoria Station, last I heard.

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[tsr]

I believe the souvenir I really want from that unit was taken years ago and is in some dusty closet in Victoria Station, last I heard.

So I can proceed without worrying about postage. Marvellous.
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I didn't say all the drivers were employing the specially-developed FCC tactic of not issuing any information (useful, or, as in this case, not exactly useful but still relevant).

 

[Keith Jarrett]

Seriously, three problems arising from this incident
1. The non-use of the bays at Blackfriars to turn trains from the South this morning (even after power had been resored)
2. The huge number of cancellations on FCC this afternoon still being blamed on a broken down train this morning. And nearly all on the Sutton/Wimbledon loop
3. The lack of a recovery plan from FCC to get the service back to normal as soon as possible
If FCC were really serious about their operation, they would publish an account of what went wrong in this incident together with lessons learned etc. But I suspect pigs might fly first though ....

 

[jon0844]

In the old days, FCC would give a very detailed explanation of what happened and went wrong (most likely on the website and posters at the stations affected). Staff might also be on hand to give out delay repay forms.

I get the feeling that they're not so likely to do that today. Apologies in advance if I am totally wrong, but it's a perception I have based on how things have changed in the last few years.

This problem is just one of the many reasons why I can't wait (sarcasm alert) until the GN line links up to the core! I am sure there will be emergency plans for GN (trains diverted into KGX) but I still think that we've got the MML and ECML all relying on a heavily congested two track line with very little room to manoeuvre.

 

[tsr]

...but I still think that we've got the MML and ECML all relying on a heavily congested two track line with very little room to manoeuvre.

That much is just stupid. I'm sorry, but it is!

 

[A-driver]

The general vibe from staff at the moment with FCC is that when it comes to disruption nobody cares anymore.

First seem to be pretty certain that they won't win the Thameslink franchise back (or at least that's how it comes across).

They are penny pinching everywhere they can-the fleet is in a very poor state, constant train faults, some requiring cancelations, others minor things but which will soon get bigger and cause cancelations. Whenever there is an incident like this morning or a person under a train like at st Neots on Friday they go into meltdown, won't listen to staff on the ground like drivers suggesting not running empty but actually stopping to pick up the hundreds of stranded passengers who havnt seen a train for the past few hours and stuff like that.

Over the summer there was a fatality at Ali Pali involving the Inverness train one Saturday. All other operators on the route recovered service fairly well, FCC were still cancelling trains at midnight because of it. In fact I was held outside holloway for ages in the afternoon and the signaller told me that NR were not going to allow any more FCC trains into kings cross for the time being as the station was clogged up with them and somehow FCC had managed to get into the situation where they had no drivers to move them out again!

I hear that they tried to terminate a train at cricklewood this morning and the passengers refused to leave when instructed so the driver had to insist that control let him carry on to west Hempstead so they could use the tube.

I share the view of many FCC staff in saying that FCC seem not to care whatsoever about any type of service recovery or stranded passengers at the moment.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Huge sympathies for the staff involved in the disruption ...(let alone the public) ....

I assume there will be a review into the incident , and the handling of it .....(with reccomendations as to the "lessons learnt etc.."

 

[jon0844]

They are penny pinching everywhere

Their tough approach to revenue protection seems to confirm that. As soon as they can train up staff to do prosecutions, they skip PFs for just about everyone and go for the byelaw 18 - writing to people to say 'How about you give us £xxx to avoid court?'.

What a shame as FCC really did an excellent job for a number of years, with GN users having little to complain about and TL users given a pretty good service considering (I mean, it has been a building site for most of the franchise).

I wonder why they're so sure they'd lose it? Clearly, their actions now will not do much to help their chances of holding on to it.

 

[A-driver]

Their tough approach to revenue protection seems to confirm that. As soon as they can train up staff to do prosecutions, they skip PFs for just about everyone and go for the byelaw 18 - writing to people to say 'How about you give us £xxx to avoid court?'.

What a shame as FCC really did an excellent job for a number of years, with GN users having little to complain about and TL users given a pretty good service considering (I mean, it has been a building site for most of the franchise).

I wonder why they're so sure they'd lose it? Clearly, their actions now will not do much to help their chances of holding on to it.

When FCC took over they were told not to worry about the gn as it looks after itself and to concentrate on the TL. Unfortunately lately the gn has been dragged down to the level of the TL.

 

[tsr]

Let's hope the new franchise contract/agreement suddenly requires a Thunderbird at each available siding...

 

[Bedpan]

Frankly I thought that they were appalling when they first took over the Thameslink franchise. The impression that I had at the time was that they had won the franchise on an unsustainable bid and were desperate to find ways of increasing revenue by any means. Imposing evening restrictions on off peak tickets, pretending that half empty trains were full as an excuse for doing so,, etc. as an example. I stopped using them or a year to 18 months.

I must say though that things seem to have steadily improved since around 2008 (don't know if this coincided with the departure of Elaine Holt) to the extent that it would no longer bother me if they retained the franchise.

Staff (except for a few and hopefully a minority of revenue protection people), and particularly the drivers, are usually good.

It is odd that they never seem to be able to deal with disruption. They may well publish an account of what went wrong in this incident together, but they won't learn the lessons, they never do.

As for being sure that they won't win the franchise, I wonder whether this is has anything to do with the eventual outcome of their West Coast application.

 

[ushawk]

I think the disruption on FCC continues for so long because of the short turn-around times at terminal stations like Brighton, Bedford etc. Generally these are around 20 minutes, so if you get a delay of 45 minutes like a lot of services were this morning, it will have a knock-on effect to more services.

 

[A-driver]

I think the disruption on FCC continues for so long because of the short turn-around times at terminal stations like Brighton, Bedford etc. Generally these are around 20 minutes, so if you get a delay of 45 minutes like a lot of services were this morning, it will have a knock-on effect to more services.

Those are generous compared to the GN-7 mins at peterbourgh and as little as 5 mins at moorgate, Hertford and welwyn!

 

[341o2]

I think the problem is that in any severe disruption on the TL Core, a high number of passengers will be stuck only a short distance from a station platform, and will therefore be more likely to decide on what they deem (incorrectly) is a strategy of lower risk... which is to walk the distance to the next/previous station.

Most passengers have zero idea of how dangerous a railway is. They deem walking on the railway to be only minimally more dangerous than crossing the road.

Exactly

Reminds me of the day the signal box at Clapham Junction collapsed, disruption was made worse by passengers leaving trains to walk along the lines, therefore necessitationg shutting off of the power

 

[A-driver]

In my opinion the reason people leave trains in disruption is because they assume the worse from the often exaggerated press reports along with the fact that they have in general little respect or faith for train crew.

I think in all fairness if you asked commuters how often they are severly delayed their initial response would be all the time. If you ask them to actually think about it and reply honestly many would have to answer never. But this causes a problem that when they do get caught up and stuck on a train they loose all faith that it will be sorted and head for the exits.

If train crew try to stop them they go down the 'you always say that' route and choose not to listen as train driving is easy, a trained chimp can do it and being that they work in the city they are far cleverer and more important than them and being that the customer is always right they will leave the train.