British Rail Non Railway Projects

[AndyCK]

I was reading a Wikipedia article on the Lightwater Valley theme park at Ripon, and came across this about one of their rollercoasters:

The Ultimate (roller coaster) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ultimate represented an investment of £5.2 million and was the concept of the park's original owner, Robert Staveley. Construction work began in early 1990 and took eighteen months to complete before the opening to the public on 17 July 1991.

While Ultimate was designed by Big Country Motioneering, they were not involved with the completion of the project. Lightwater Valley's owner got engineers from British Rail to oversee the construction. A few sections of track on the second half of the ride were redesigned to change their banking. The track was made by "Tubular Engineering".

Set within 44 acres (178,000 m2) of woodland, Ultimate takes passengers on a 7 minute 34 second ride along 7,442 feet (2,268 m) of tubular steel track (an average of 11.2 mph (18.0 km/h)), with two lift hills of 102 and 107 feet (31 and 33 m) respectively (140 feet (43 m) when taking the full gradient into effect[clarification needed]) which rest on Canadian redwood trestles. It currently runs two trains on a normal day, each of which can hold a maximum of 38 passengers. It originally had over the shoulder restraints but after complaints of uncomfort, these were changed to a giant lap bar.

I was surprised to read BR engineers were involved in the rollercoaster's construction! Given there's no linked reference to verify, is this correct and has there been any other non railway projects BR were involved with? Would the engineers referred to have been from BREL?

If anyone has info to satisfy my curiosity please, it will be very much appreciated!

 

[pdeaves]

I was reading a Wikipedia article on the Lightwater Valley theme park at Ripon, and came across this about one of their rollercoasters:

The Ultimate (roller coaster) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I was surprised to read BR engineers were involved in the rollercoaster's construction! Given there's no linked reference to verify, is this correct and has there been any other non railway projects BR were involved with? Would the engineers referred to have been from BREL?

If anyone has info to satisfy my curiosity please, it will be very much appreciated!

If the engineers made changes to the track cant, I doubt they would have been from BREL (which concentrated on vehicles).

 

[SargeNpton]

Mentioned on the theme park's web site...

The History of Lightwater Valley in Ripon, Yorkshire

Lightwater Valley Theme Park started life as a Pig Farm located approximately 5 miles from the North Yorkshire city of Ripon. Find out more about the Park's fascinating history on this page.

www.lightwatervalley.co.uk

When it mentions engineers it would be civil engineers rather than British Rail Engineering. Perhaps the Railway Technical Centre was involved.

 

[steamybrian]

In the "good old days" ..British Railways owned ferries, hotels and I believe some waterways.

 

[PeterC]

In the "good old days" ..British Railways owned ferries, hotels and I believe some waterways.

I am sure that there were more canals and docks in railway ownership but the only one that I can think of is Lydney which was transferred to the Inland Waterways Executive two years after nationalisation.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Could have referred to the consultancy division of BR - Transmark

 

[SargeNpton]

Could have referred to the consultancy division of BR - Transmark

Pretty sure that Transmark only did overseas consultancies.

 

[furnessvale]

In the "good old days" ..British Railways owned ferries, hotels and I believe some waterways.

In the latter days of Red Star they started chartering aircraft, getting so far away from the original concept of utilising otherwise empty brakevan space on expresses. Costs spiralled and the rest, as they say, is history.

 

[SargeNpton]

The British Rail flying saucer from the 1970s had to be the oddest...

BBC NEWS | UK | British Rail flying saucer plan

 

[Merle Haggard]

Pretty sure that Transmark only did overseas consultancies.

Yes, on reflection you're right.

 

[Merle Haggard]

In the latter days of Red Star they started chartering aircraft, getting so far away from the original concept of utilising otherwise empty brakevan space on expresses. Costs spiralled and the rest, as they say, is history.

Sectorisation put an and to Red Star using brakevan space - our Intercity colleagues objected to the station overtime allegedly caused. On the WR we had several big customers who had maintenance contracts - refrigeration, compressed air. Their field fitters would visit a plant in the morning, identify the part required and the customer (for instance, based in the Slough-Southall area) would put the part on an HST and it would be with the fitter at, say, Plymouth by the early afternoon. A good service that commanded premium prices at very marginal cost, but killed by a consequence of sectorisation. Don't remember aircraft, do remember PPTs - Premium Parcels Trains, Cl31 + 3 BGs, - with costs possibly similar to an aeroplane...

 

[pdeaves]

The British Rail flying saucer from the 1970s had to be the oddest...

BBC NEWS | UK | British Rail flying saucer plan

That was an employee's idea but, in line with the employment contract, any patent had to belong to the employer.

 

[30907]

Mentioned on the theme park's web site...

The History of Lightwater Valley in Ripon, Yorkshire

Lightwater Valley Theme Park started life as a Pig Farm located approximately 5 miles from the North Yorkshire city of Ripon. Find out more about the Park's fascinating history on this page.

www.lightwatervalley.co.uk

When it mentions engineers it would be civil engineers rather than British Rail Engineering. Perhaps the Railway Technical Centre was involved.

Project for apprentices or similar, perhaps?

 

[AndyCK]

Thanks everyone for the replies, and I'd never thought of BR diversifying into consultancy work or apprentice projects.

The flying saucer patent has to be the weirdest thing I've read for a while though!

 

[Trainfan2019]

In the latter days of Red Star they started chartering aircraft, getting so far away from the original concept of utilising otherwise empty brakevan space on expresses. Costs spiralled and the rest, as they say, is history.

I've always been fascinated by Red Star but never knew about the aircraft side to it. Be interesting to see how the Red Star concept would adapt to work with today's levels of internet parcels.

 

[randyrippley]

Pretty sure that Transmark only did overseas consultancies.

weren't Transmark responsible for the re-enginering of the Snaefell Mountain Railway trams that fitted the rheostatic brakes and overinflated replacement bogies and transmission?

 

[LOM]

In the "good old days" ..British Railways owned ferries, hotels and I believe some waterways.

And for a whil they ran hovercraft - Seaspeed.

 

[Ashley Hill]

There was also the Jetfoil.

 

[furnessvale]

There was also the Jetfoil.View attachment 79976

Owned by the Belgian shipping company, which in turn, I think, was owned by SNCB.

They were an exciting ride with the pilot doing his best to swerve round bigger waves.....until.....BANG, and all the lockers flew open, smashing £100s of duty frees all over the floor.

 

[SargeNpton]

In the latter days of Red Star they started chartering aircraft, getting so far away from the original concept of utilising otherwise empty brakevan space on expresses. Costs spiralled and the rest, as they say, is history.

By that time hadn't the Red Star brand been sold to CityLink?

 

[Ashley Hill]

By that time hadn't the Red Star brand been sold to CityLink?

After it was privatised Red Star went downhill rapidly. It was said that TOCs wanted to charge it to carry their parcels traffic. It was a good business that just thrown away.

 

[pdeaves]

If I remember correctly, Red Star was sold for £1, which gives an indication of the perceived value at the time. The key was that it was 'free' to operate on residual capacity. Once TOCs started charging it stopped being viable. There are some parallels with infrastructure maintenance, where the locos, wagons, etc. did additional work to their day-to-day revenue duties and all of a sudden this was an extra cost. The difference was that maintenance we had to accept, parcels we didn't.

 

[furnessvale]

By that time hadn't the Red Star brand been sold to CityLink?

No. Red Star had a working agreement with City Link where Red Star did the trunk haul and City Link did the local delivery. Then City Link realised they could increase profits by carrying out the trunk haul themselves and started "diverting" parcels onto their own road trunkers.

 

[Merle Haggard]

After it was privatised Red Star went downhill rapidly. It was said that TOCs wanted to charge it to carry their parcels traffic. It was a good business that just thrown away.

As I wrote above, Red Star was pretty much demolished at sectorisation in the mid-80s. There seemed to be an attempt to revive it in the late 90's (Red Star signs appearing on stations). City Link involvement (as sub-contractors) dates back to an attempt to make Red Star door to door, losing sight of the advantages of really quick transits made at marginal costs.

There are some parallels with infrastructure maintenance, where the locos, wagons, etc. did additional work to their day-to-day revenue duties and all of a sudden this was an extra cost. The difference was that maintenance we had to accept, parcels we didn't.

Freight locos used on infrastructure trains was another example where sectorisatiion shone a spotlight. I was directly involved in the W.R. studies and we found, for instance, that Engineers' traffic at Gloucester New Yard represented about 2/3rds of the workload, so it was far from marginal. Not only were freight shouldering the costs but insult was added to injury as the CCE were very reluctant to carry out any work on freight-only lines or terminals even if the track condition was dire. Before that, the 'Engineers' were very reluctant to return traffic brake vans on Monday morning, and left us to collect our locos - sometimes with insufficient fuel left to get to a fuelling point.
As an aside, after TlF was split into 3, the majority of the South - East one's traffic was Network Rail. It was perhaps unfortunate that, when it passed to EWS, Mr B spent a lot of time denigrating that organisation.

 

[SargeNpton]

No. Red Star had a working agreement with City Link where Red Star did the trunk haul and City Link did the local delivery. Then City Link realised they could increase profits by carrying out the trunk haul themselves and started "diverting" parcels onto their own road trunkers.

Most CityLink collection/delivery (outside of London anyway) was originally done by local taxi companies. Red Star was sold to CityLink - who then turned way from using trains as the trunk haulage in favour or other means.

 

[furnessvale]

Most CityLink collection/delivery (outside of London anyway) was originally done by local taxi companies. Red Star was sold to CityLink - who then turned way from using trains as the trunk haulage in favour or other means.

Red Star was sold to a management buyout in 1995. It was later sold to Lynx Express who in turn were taken over by UPS.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

In the latter days of Red Star they started chartering aircraft, getting so far away from the original concept of utilising otherwise empty brakevan space on expresses. Costs spiralled and the rest, as they say, is history.

The LMS had an airline in its wider portfolio for a time in the 1930s (and a number of bus companies).
It also owned quarries which produced ballast for its lines (eg Caldon above Leek in North Staffs).
Plus things like steelworks for its locos.
The Shropshire Union canal system was an LMS (LNWR) property - some of its canal routes were converted to railways after purchase.
Southampton docks was developed and owned by the L&SWR, and many ferry ports were railway owned.
Golf courses were in railway ownership as well, along with a luxury hotel nearby (eg Gleneagles).

 

[Ashley Hill]

Many companies also owned and licensed fishing rights.

 

[randyrippley]

What is now the West End of Morecambe was effectively built under the control of the Midland Railway - they arranged for what was a new town built on a grid pattern, with them allocating land to spec builders.

 

[Man of Kent]

weren't Transmark responsible for the re-enginering of the Snaefell Mountain Railway trams that fitted the rheostatic brakes and overinflated replacement bogies and transmission?

Wasn't that London Transport's Chiswick Works, using parts from Aachen tramcars?