British culture

[alex397]

I feel there is a major contrast to British culture and continental European culture, and I’m wondering if more experienced people on this forum could confirm with me or correct me. I’m specifically talking about night time culture.

I’ve been in many European cities with friends, often until the late hours in pubs and bars. And in Eastern Europe this includes studenty ‘ruin bars’ even though I’m very much in my mid -30s.
People are clearly enjoying themselves and inebriated, but no one is shouting at each other, no one is completely out of their minds, people are respectful.

But every time I go on an evening out in the UK, people are shouting at each other and falling all over the place, and generally being loutish. (Unless I stick to a micro pub or a wine bar)

Is this something to do with British culture? Or am I just creating my own narrative?

The catalyst to this thread was my evening out in Canterbury this evening. I generally had a brilliant time, but it was slightly spoilt my some drunk blokes being sexually suggestive to some female members of our group, some blokes wanting a fight with us for no apparent reason (we are very geeky passive people who don’t look like the types who want to fight), and there were groups of people all just shouting at each other.
I’ve been on evenings out in European cities like Barcelona, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest etc until the early hours and never really experienced anything like this! Well, we’ve experienced some aspects of it, but not to the extent of the UK.

Is there anything behind this or am I talking rubbish?

 

[The exile]

I’d be inclined to suggest there is a difference - though there is also a “danger” of confirmation bias. Once you’ve formed an opinion, you will tend to give weight to experiences that confirm your opinion and less to those that don’t. I also note that all the continental places you mention are capitals.
I also wonder whether we will tend to pick up “atmosphere” (particularly threats) more easily in a culture with which we are familiar

 

[martin butler]

There clearly are differences between so called British culture, and European,

I would say in Europe they are more family oriented, kids even drink with their parents at the dinner table, and so drink loses its taboo status to teens, whereas we have become a more self-indulged society,
how many families now eat as a family unit, discuss things over the dinner table?

A lot was to do with our licencing laws, pubs closed at 11, sometimes earlier, so that encouraged binge drinking, in some, to get as much down your neck before last orders, whereas drinking in Europe tends to be more relaxed,

Then there is society itself, ours is taking a daily battering, from people who want to see us at each other's throats, who want to ghettoise us into ethnic lines, whites here, blacks, there, browns there, and never will they cross, our political systems don't exactly allow for friendly difference of views either,

 

[The exile]

There clearly are differences between so called British culture, and European,

I would say in Europe they are more family oriented, kids even drink with their parents at the dinner table, and so drink loses its taboo status to teens, whereas we have become a more self-indulged society,
how many families now eat as a family unit, discuss things over the dinner table?

A lot was to do with our licencing laws, pubs closed at 11, sometimes earlier, so that encouraged binge drinking, in some, to get as much down your neck before last orders, whereas drinking in Europe tends to be more relaxed,

Then there is society itself, ours is taking a daily battering, from people who want to see us at each other's throats, who want to ghettoise us into ethnic lines, whites here, blacks, there, browns there, and never will they cross, our political systems don't exactly allow for friendly difference of views either,

Another difference between our culture and traditions and those elsewhere is that ours very much stresses the rights of the individual as opposed to duty to society. I’m talking about “baseline” here rather than individuals’ attitudes, as those will clearly vary. Where individual rights are paramount, instilling a sense of consideration for others is harder.

 

[AlterEgo]

We need to define what we mean by "continental Europe". Are you thinking of Romania, for example? Surely not! There's a huge amount of alcohol related violence there.

 

[coppercapped]

I would suggest that what you describe is ‘behaviour’, not ‘culture’.

 

[styles]

I wonder also if you're tending to attend, let's say, less desirable establishments. My local pub I almost never see violence. In the past 12 months I think I can picture one time a bloke got pushed out of the pub after having had too much beer and snow. It gets loud in there but not aggressive, just drunk people talk louder, and the pub is exceptionally busy on Friday and Saturday nights and certain event days so you're competing for volume somewhat. But it's all good-spirited in my experience.

 

[The exile]

I would suggest that what you describe is ‘behaviour’, not ‘culture’.

Though behaviour patterns are influenced by cultural “norms”. Things which count as “minor transgressions” in one society are sins against the Holy Ghost elsewhere.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think it’s a British stereotype of violence in pubs. But if there is any truth I would say it’s because of the binge drinking from shorter opening hours.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Though behaviour patterns are influenced by cultural “norms”. Things which count as “minor transgressions” in one society are sins against the Holy Ghost elsewhere.

There is also the fact that behaviour patterns are rarely black and white. I probably agree that there can be issues with violence (or at least uncouth behaviour) in pubs in the North East, but the flip side of that is people tend to be willing to stand up for themselves (and each other) more. In the example given earlier about harassment, that sort of thing would quite often lead to a confrontation around here. This is also a very long standing fact of the culture round here which has generally prized sticking up for yourself even if that can sometimes lead to trouble; you can see similar traces of it in the culture for at least a few centuries now (and it also spread further afield, particularly to parts of the US where many people ultimately trace their heritage back to the counties along the anglo-scottish border).

I'd also point out that 95% of the time I go out, there's no bother. If anything, the actual nightlife often isn't the issue, it's the vicinity where (for instance) you'll often get underage kids spoiling for problems. Just the other day I was out drinking in Morpeth (which is admittedly genteel by north east standards but plenty of people go out in Morpeth from all over Northumberland and beyond) until fairly late - no issues in any of the pubs and it was pretty universally friendly and cheerful... but there were teenagers starting on anyone who went near the bus station (I actually had to get on my bus at the second stop around the corner because I didn't feel safe being near them).

I think it’s a British stereotype of violence in pubs. But if there is any truth I would say it’s because of the binge drinking from shorter opening hours.

I think this is probably true. It might be purely anecdotal but I sometimes notice Friday nights being the worst for bother even if more drink is had on a Saturday - perhaps because unlike Saturdays drinking is really compressed into just a few hours between finishing work and places closing.

 

[Harpo]

I think it’s a British stereotype of violence in pubs.

I’ve only ever seen one ‘violent’ pub incident which was back in my teens. I’ve experienced a huge amount of incredibly positive culture in our pubs from a Welsh rugby team singing (individually) to live bands, community events and local politics.

A simple list of things I love about our near neighbours in Europe-
- Civic pride. Clean, well kept, rubbish-free towns and villages, including verges.
- Love of food that sustains fabulous street or indoor markets selling huge varieties of fish, meat, cooked meat, cheese and vegetables.
- Trees in built places. (We rip them out to build.)
- Town centres in good condition full of individual businesses with few unoccupied premises.
- Street cafes where I can even get a second cup because it’s bought to my seat.
- Affordable street eateries
- Decent roads

 

[Bantamzen]

I feel there is a major contrast to British culture and continental European culture, and I’m wondering if more experienced people on this forum could confirm with me or correct me. I’m specifically talking about night time culture.

I’ve been in many European cities with friends, often until the late hours in pubs and bars. And in Eastern Europe this includes studenty ‘ruin bars’ even though I’m very much in my mid -30s.
People are clearly enjoying themselves and inebriated, but no one is shouting at each other, no one is completely out of their minds, people are respectful.

But every time I go on an evening out in the UK, people are shouting at each other and falling all over the place, and generally being loutish. (Unless I stick to a micro pub or a wine bar)

Is this something to do with British culture? Or am I just creating my own narrative?

The catalyst to this thread was my evening out in Canterbury this evening. I generally had a brilliant time, but it was slightly spoilt my some drunk blokes being sexually suggestive to some female members of our group, some blokes wanting a fight with us for no apparent reason (we are very geeky passive people who don’t look like the types who want to fight), and there were groups of people all just shouting at each other.
I’ve been on evenings out in European cities like Barcelona, Berlin, Budapest, Bucharest etc until the early hours and never really experienced anything like this! Well, we’ve experienced some aspects of it, but not to the extent of the UK.

Is there anything behind this or am I talking rubbish?

One big contrast in some European countries is that nights out tend to revolve around a meal, often later at night than we traditionally eat here. They'll still have a fair bit to drink, but mixed in with a meal spread out over numerous hours means they don't get as inebriated as some folk here in the UK do.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I can't speak for places abroad, but certainly in the UK it really does depend on the specific place you go to. Some pubs and bars have much more of that kind of behaviour than others. And in my experience it is often what kind of place it is. I've seen much more trouble at student bars and sports bars than I have at alt / rock / metal pubs. Not to say it doesnt happen, it absolutely does, but some places police themselves more to ensure stuff doesnt kick off (or if it does, so random people not involved dont end up being pulled into it).

 

[telstarbox]

Depends where and when you go. I was in my local until last orders on Friday and it was perfectly civilised, but it's hidden away from the town centre and also priced higher so people tend not to get smashed there!

Another factor is that Cocaine use is much more widespread than it used to be, and that can contribute to aggression.

 

[SteveP29]

I think this is probably true. It might be purely anecdotal but I sometimes notice Friday nights being the worst for bother even if more drink is had on a Saturday - perhaps because unlike Saturdays drinking is really compressed into just a few hours between finishing work and places closing.

My drinking career began in Somerset when I was 16.
Returning home to the North East at 19, I began going out in and around Chester le Street, Durham and Newcastle.

What I found was that Friday was lads and lasses night out where lads went out with their mates, lasses went out with their friends.
Saturday night was couples night.

 

[The exile]

There seems to be a correlation between the “ go out and/to get drunk” “culture” (which is by no means uniquely British) and the degree to which alcohol is seen to be something to be restricted to adults. In other words it becomes “forbidden fruit”.

 

[Tetchytyke]

A simple list of things I love about our near neighbours in Europe-
- Civic pride. Clean, well kept, rubbish-free towns and villages, including verges.

Yet most European major cities are covered in a layer of graffiti which would never be tolerated in the UK. Look at the incessant whinging about the Bakerloo Line; compared to what you see on the Berlin S-Bahn, the 72 stock is spotless.

Same in the bars. Every bar I’ve been in in Hamburg, Berlin, and Brussels has been caked in graffiti in the toilets. I don’t mind it, but you’d simply never see that in the UK.

As for the fighting, I think it depends where you go. I lived in Newcastle for 20-odd years and, despite the city’s ‘lively’ reputation, I only ever had an issue once in all those years, and that seemed to mostly be fuelled by an overuse of cocaine (his, not mine). But then there were certain pubs I simply never went in.

 

[172007]

I think it’s a British stereotype of violence in pubs. But if there is any truth I would say it’s because of the binge drinking from shorter opening hours.

Deffinately short opening houra of pubs years gone by. Hit the pub at 7:30 drink up by 11 then home. It ingrained from a young age a one speed pace of drinking that affects many us in our late 50's

 

[Harpo]

Deffinately short opening houra of pubs years gone by. Hit the pub at 7:30 drink up by 11 then home. It ingrained from a young age a one speed pace of drinking that affects many us in our late 50's

Sunday lunchtime was even worse - 12 til 2 then home for Sunday lunch.

 

[scarby]

Can only really echo what other posters have written, notably that Europe is a big continent with wide differences when it comes to being out at night. There's obviously a huge difference between going to a touristy summer bar in Cannes and a sports bar in a run-down former industrial town in Romania.

I lived in the UK most of my life and now Sweden and can't say I have experienced trouble going out, I have maybe seen only on really serious fight ever. So for someone to want a fight for no reason is awful but sounds really unlucky.

Anywhere where people really go to drink can get loud.

It's perhaps also worth noting that going out drinking in Britain is much safer than it was decades ago. Certainly until relatively recently pubs were male-dominated and fights, particularly outside, were not uncommon, usually to "resolve" some issue.

 

[Trackman]

I lived in the UK most of my life and now Sweden and can't say I have experienced trouble going out, I have maybe seen only on really serious fight ever. So for someone to want a fight for no reason is awful but sounds really unlucky.

Just out of interest, as you have lived in the UK, what do you think is causing this problem in the UK?